Q3

[derek.deacon]

I’ll try to answer and explain Question #3 for the closet game. The question is as follows:

3. If the silk dress is on an even-numbered hanger, which one of the following could be on the hanger immediately to its left?
(A) the gauze dress
(B) the linen dress
(C) the polyester dress
(D) the rayon dress
(E) the wool dress

I used frames in my setup for this question. The four possibilities are:
1. R _ S _ _ _
2. R _ W _ _ _
3. _ _ S _ _ R
4. _ _ W _ _ R

Since the question presents the condition that S is on an even-numbered hanger (2,4, or 6), we can eliminate possibilities 1 and 3, because each of them places S in an odd-numbered position (3). That leaves these two possibilities:
2. R _ W _ _ _
4. _ _ W _ _ R

Now let’s start evaluating the answer choices. Since the question is phrased, "...could be..." we know that 4 of the answer choices CANNOT be.

(A) GS _ R _ W _ G S. G has to come before P, so this can’t work. G S W _ _ R and _ _ W G S R. Since SL is a requirement, this cannot be the correct answer. S also can’t be an odd number, which is it in the second situation. Moving on.

(B) LS _ L cannot be before S because of the original constraint SL. Ding. Moving on.

(C) PS _ In R _ W _ _ _, S can’t be 2 nor 4(since R and W are right before it). It can’t be 6 because L has to come after S. _ _ W _ _ R, S cannot be 2 because L has to come right after it. It can’t be 4 because P must come right before it. Ding it and move on.

(D) RS - R _ W _ _ _, S can’t be 2 because there’s no room for P before and L after. Can’t be 4 because W is 3. Can’t be 6 because L has to come after it. _ _ W _ _ R, R is 6, making it impossible. Ding it, move on.

By elimination, we know that (E) is correct, but let’s prove it anyway:

(E) WS - R _ W _ _ _, S could be four, L could be 5, and G and P could occupy 2 and 6 respectively:
R G W S L P

This works, and reaffirms that (E) is the correct answer.

[aileenann]

This looks fantastic Derek! Thanks for helping us grow our forum, and this question in particular

[belkeniac]

Isn't placing the SL rule in the possible frames a better frame set up? For example:

START with putting SL in slot 1 and 2

which gives us..... S L W G P R

Slot 3: it was either W or S. S is already placed and so W fills that slot.
Slot 6: R was in either 1 or 6, 1 is filled
Slot 4 &5: you have your G-P rule.

NEXT SL cannot go in slots 2&3 respectively because it will violate the W/S in slot 3 rule

NEXT put the SL rule in slots 3 & 4

which gives.... r/ _ S L _ /r

NEXT put the SL rule in slots 4&5

which gives.... r/ _ W S L /r

LAST put the SL rule in slots 5&6

which gives.... R G W P S L

slot 1: need to fill 1 or 6 with R
slot 3: need to fill with either S or W
slots 2&4: follow the G then P rule

So ultimately your four frames are..
1. S L W G P R
2. r/ _ S L _ /r
3. r/ _ W S L /r
4. R G W P S L

[chike_eze]

I used frames in my setup for this question. The four possibilities are:
1. R _ S _ _ _
2. R _ W _ _ _
3. _ _ S _ _ R
4. _ _ W _ _ R

Since the question presents the condition that S is on an even-numbered hanger (2,4, or 6), we can eliminate possibilities 1 and 3, because each of them places S in an odd-numbered position (3). That leaves these two possibilities:
2. R _ W _ _ _
4. _ _ W _ _ R

I used similar frames when I reviewed this question. But for question 3, I solved SL for both frames before looking at the answer choices. I arrived at the right answer. However, I hope I didn't jump the gun prematurely. Here's what I did.

Our two possible frames...
R _ W _ _ _
_ _ W _ _ R

S must be in an even slot, i.e., 2, 4 or 6. But in either frame, S cannot go 2nd or 6th, therefore S must go 4th.

R _ WSL _ (RGWSLP if completed, though not necessary)
_ _ WSL R (GPWSLR if completed, but not necessary)

W is immediately to the left of S in both frames, therefore, W is the correct answer.

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

So I've never solved this particular game using frames - though I'm a huge advocate of their use, so long as you're in control and it's not chaotic.

But for question 3, why recreate frames all over again if you have ones similar to belkaniac?

So ultimately your four frames are..
1. S L W G P R
2. r/ _ S L _ /r
3. r/ _ W S L /r
4. R G W P S L

According those frames, on question 3, only frame 3 has S on an even number. In frame 3 W is immediately to it's left and so the answer is quickly identified as answer choice (E). Nice work belkeniac!

[chike_eze]

But for question 3, why recreate frames all over again if you have ones similar to belkaniac?

So ultimately your four frames are..
1. S L W G P R
2. r/ _ S L _ /r
3. r/ _ W S L /r
4. R G W P S L

According those frames, on question 3, only frame 3 has S on an even number. In frame 3 W is immediately to it's left and so the answer is quickly identified as answer choice (E). Nice work belkeniac!

You are correct. However, I don't think I would have come up with belkeniac's frames during the heat of the test (maybe, but unlikely). I based my response on the group of frames I created which was similar to Derek's. Less impressive, but gets you to the right answer.

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

Ah! gotcha. Yeah I wouldn't have come up with belkaniac's frames either.

But I would have been more likely to arrive at belkaniac's than derek's because on Numbered Ordering games it's much more frequent that the best way to arrive at frames is through chunks rather than those constraints that limit 1 position to either 1 of 2 characters.

In fact unless you see a split for 1 position between 2 characters that impacts a lot of other rules, I'd recommend simply checking to see how many places the chunk is limited to. My general rule of thumb is that if it's 2 or 3 places where the chunk can go, I run it out. Otherwise, I don't head down the path of framing. In this game the chunk can go in 4 places, so I probably would have simply hit the questions.

[sergiok4]

I really struggled with this one until for some reason I saw the light. It seems that once I understood the requirement of S being on an even number hanger, it was easy to see that the only spot it could go is 4, which automatically places W to it's left. Basically - if S in on an even number W must be in #3, which leaves only 1 even number with an open spot to it's right for the SL requirement: 4. And since we alredy know that W is in 3, we see that (E) is the only possible answer. I am frustrated because I spend a long time on this and now, I can't remember why this was not obvious from the start.

[stacksdoe]

Ah! gotcha. Yeah I wouldn't have come up with belkaniac's frames either.

But I would have been more likely to arrive at belkaniac's than derek's because on Numbered Ordering games it's much more frequent that the best way to arrive at frames is through chunks rather than those constraints that limit 1 position to either 1 of 2 characters.

In fact unless you see a split for 1 position between 2 characters that impacts a lot of other rules, I'd recommend simply checking to see how many places the chunk is limited to. My general rule of thumb is that if it's 2 or 3 places where the chunk can go, I run it out. Otherwise, I don't head down the path of framing. In this game the chunk can go in 4 places, so I probably would have simply hit the questions.

Im definitely with you Matthsherman. Earlier I was checking this game out with a different source, and they created 4 four frames, and it just boggled my mind, there are no chucks and or deep inferences to be made at the onset. In fact, after practicing this game a few times, the only times I had to construct a mini sketch was number 2 and number 7, and at that, number 2 was a half mini diagram. only showing that SW go either in 3, 4 or, 2, 3 respectively. !