Hi,
Could you please explain why the answer is E? I actually ended up eliminating E and was down to A or C and ended up choosing A. Thanks!
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- jrany12
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- giladedelman
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
Thanks for your question!
We're told that sometimes readers believe that even great poems express contradictory ideas, and that no one who writes a great poem intends to communicate contradictory ideas. From these premises, the argument concludes that the meaning of a poem is not whatever the poet intends to communicate. But there's a gap here. Where does "meaning" come from? It's certainly not explicitly mentioned in the premises.
Let's think about what the premises do establish: If readers believe there is sometimes contradiction in great poetry, and the author of a great poem would never intend to communicate a contradiction, it must be the case that what readers believe a poem expresses is not the same as the poet's intent.
But the actual conclusion of the argument is that the meaning of a poem is not the same as the author's intent. So, the argument is assuming an equivalency between what readers believe and the poem's meaning.
(E) is correct because it expresses this necessary assumption.
(A) is incorrect because it's not necessary to assume that different readers will disagree about the poet's intent; in fact, whether readers agree is totally out of scope.
(B) is incorrect because the argument is not about the number of ideas, but rather about whether they are contradictory.
(C) -- again, whether readers agree is irrelevant.
(D) is a bit more tempting, to me anyway, but it actually doesn't bridge the gap between a reader believing a poem has contradictory ideas, on the one hand, and meaning not being equivalent to intent, on the other hand. Even if we make this assumption, it still allows for readers to have additional beliefs about the poet's intent that are incorrect. And even more importantly, it simply doesn't address the issue of what "meaning" consists in.
The takeaway: When a Necessary Assumption question includes a new concept in the conclusion, you can treat the question like a Sufficient Assumption question and predict that the correct answer will link a concept from the premises to that new concept in the conclusion.
#officialexplanation
We're told that sometimes readers believe that even great poems express contradictory ideas, and that no one who writes a great poem intends to communicate contradictory ideas. From these premises, the argument concludes that the meaning of a poem is not whatever the poet intends to communicate. But there's a gap here. Where does "meaning" come from? It's certainly not explicitly mentioned in the premises.
Let's think about what the premises do establish: If readers believe there is sometimes contradiction in great poetry, and the author of a great poem would never intend to communicate a contradiction, it must be the case that what readers believe a poem expresses is not the same as the poet's intent.
But the actual conclusion of the argument is that the meaning of a poem is not the same as the author's intent. So, the argument is assuming an equivalency between what readers believe and the poem's meaning.
(E) is correct because it expresses this necessary assumption.
(A) is incorrect because it's not necessary to assume that different readers will disagree about the poet's intent; in fact, whether readers agree is totally out of scope.
(B) is incorrect because the argument is not about the number of ideas, but rather about whether they are contradictory.
(C) -- again, whether readers agree is irrelevant.
(D) is a bit more tempting, to me anyway, but it actually doesn't bridge the gap between a reader believing a poem has contradictory ideas, on the one hand, and meaning not being equivalent to intent, on the other hand. Even if we make this assumption, it still allows for readers to have additional beliefs about the poet's intent that are incorrect. And even more importantly, it simply doesn't address the issue of what "meaning" consists in.
The takeaway: When a Necessary Assumption question includes a new concept in the conclusion, you can treat the question like a Sufficient Assumption question and predict that the correct answer will link a concept from the premises to that new concept in the conclusion.
#officialexplanation
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- jrany12
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Re: PT 57 Q 24 S 2 Sometimes one reads a poem...
Yes, thank you for the clear and thorough explanation!
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- mitchliao
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Re: PT 57 Q 24 S 2 Sometimes one reads a poem...
For these question types, do you need to assume that every premise that the person who is making the argument uses actually in fact does support his argument in some way?
Cause if you take only the conclusion and one of the premises:
Premise 1: One who is writing a great poem does NOT intend to communicate contradictory ideas.
Conclusion: The meaning of a poem is NOT whatever the author intends to communicate to the reader by means of the poem.
Then, it is NOT necessarily true that (E) "If a reader believes that a poem expresses a particular idea, then that idea is part of the meaning of the poem."
In this instance, it could be the case where the poem has NO meaning whatsoever.
But... if you add in Premise 2: Sometimes one reads a poem and believes the poem expresses contradictory ideas.
And you are assuming that every premise that the person who is making the argument uses actually in fact does support his argument in some way.
Then, there would have to be a connection between the poem reader's belief and the meaning of the poem (as the original person who answered this post said). And thus (E) would be necessary.
Cause if you take only the conclusion and one of the premises:
Premise 1: One who is writing a great poem does NOT intend to communicate contradictory ideas.
Conclusion: The meaning of a poem is NOT whatever the author intends to communicate to the reader by means of the poem.
Then, it is NOT necessarily true that (E) "If a reader believes that a poem expresses a particular idea, then that idea is part of the meaning of the poem."
In this instance, it could be the case where the poem has NO meaning whatsoever.
But... if you add in Premise 2: Sometimes one reads a poem and believes the poem expresses contradictory ideas.
And you are assuming that every premise that the person who is making the argument uses actually in fact does support his argument in some way.
Then, there would have to be a connection between the poem reader's belief and the meaning of the poem (as the original person who answered this post said). And thus (E) would be necessary.
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- randitect
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
I have a lot of trouble visualizing this one. I narrowed it down to D and E, and got lucky. Can someone diagram this one please?
The main gap I see is that the ideas of readers may not be the ideas of the author. So just because a reader believes that contradictory ideas are expressed, they may not be those of the author (who did not intend to express contradictory ideas). maybe the reader is overly creative and left-field in his/her analysis? Perhaps my analysis is wrong, or perhaps this is captured in E...if so, please explain how. Ideally by diagramming.
Thank you!
The main gap I see is that the ideas of readers may not be the ideas of the author. So just because a reader believes that contradictory ideas are expressed, they may not be those of the author (who did not intend to express contradictory ideas). maybe the reader is overly creative and left-field in his/her analysis? Perhaps my analysis is wrong, or perhaps this is captured in E...if so, please explain how. Ideally by diagramming.
Thank you!
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- Dkrajewski30
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
I set it apart formally like this...
P1: People believe poem expresses contradictory ideas.
P2: Poets never intend to express contradictory ideas.
C: The meaning of the poem cannot be what the author intends.
But wait...the argument assumes the people are right when they say the poem expresses contradictory ideas. If the poem doesn't mean to express them, then maybe the meaning IS WHAT THE POET INTENDS - he just doesn't intend to express contradictory ideas, given premise 2. Essentially, the flaw is that what the people believe about the meaning isn't necessarily true. The author is conflating their beliefs with the truth.
P1: People believe poem expresses contradictory ideas.
P2: Poets never intend to express contradictory ideas.
C: The meaning of the poem cannot be what the author intends.
But wait...the argument assumes the people are right when they say the poem expresses contradictory ideas. If the poem doesn't mean to express them, then maybe the meaning IS WHAT THE POET INTENDS - he just doesn't intend to express contradictory ideas, given premise 2. Essentially, the flaw is that what the people believe about the meaning isn't necessarily true. The author is conflating their beliefs with the truth.
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- maria487
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Jackie Chiles
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
Does this argument assume meaning of poem <--> what reader believes?
I wanted to diagram this argument formally, and I had trouble doing so but I predicted that the answer choice would be Reader believes --> Meaning (though the reverse of this was the correct answer). Because there is a conflation of these two in the argument, would it be safe to say that both of these are in fact correct?
I wanted to diagram this argument formally, and I had trouble doing so but I predicted that the answer choice would be Reader believes --> Meaning (though the reverse of this was the correct answer). Because there is a conflation of these two in the argument, would it be safe to say that both of these are in fact correct?
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- rachel.zuliniak
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Vinny Gambini
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
I think diagramming this answer would be more trouble than it's worth and also take up a lot of valuable time at the end of a test.
Remember, the goal of a necessary assumption question is to find an assumption that is absolutely integral to the argument i.e. our argument will completely fall apart without it. One way to test answers is to negate them - if the argument falls apart when an answer is negated then it is correct.
Conclusion (simplified): The meaning of a poem isn't what the author is trying to say through the poem. So if we're looking at a poem wherein the author is trying to describe sadness to the reader, that isn't necessarily the "meaning" of the poem.
Why (simplified): Sometimes readers believe the poem has contradictory ideas. No one writing a great poem is trying to write contradictory ideas.
Gap: How does what the reader believes the poem is about relate to the "meaning"? Even if you can't find the gap, you can test the answers using the negation trick.
A) We don't care about different readers and actually the stimulus tells us this in the first line. Sometimes one reads a poem... etc. So some people may get one impression and others may get another. Doesn't help us.
B) The key phrase here is one primary idea. Watch the wording. The author may express multiple ideas, our argument is only talking about ideas that contradict.
C) We already know readers may have different ideas. Also, this doesn't explain our gap because it's talking about meaning in relation to the readers and author. We want that connection between ideas and meaning.
D) Once again, author may express multiple ideas. We don't know whether all are discernible. So this is out of scope. This certainly could be an assumption the stimulus is making but we don't explicitly know the stimulus is making this assumption.
E) This states our gap exactly. Reader believes the poem expresses contradictory ideas. It is then part of the meaning. Therefore, whatever the author is trying to say is not necessarily the meaning of the poem. Try negating it and see what it does to the argument: If a reader believes that a poem expresses a particular idea then that idea is NOT part of the meaning of the poem. Well, then we can't draw our conclusion if that is true.
Hopefully that is somewhat helpful!
Remember, the goal of a necessary assumption question is to find an assumption that is absolutely integral to the argument i.e. our argument will completely fall apart without it. One way to test answers is to negate them - if the argument falls apart when an answer is negated then it is correct.
Conclusion (simplified): The meaning of a poem isn't what the author is trying to say through the poem. So if we're looking at a poem wherein the author is trying to describe sadness to the reader, that isn't necessarily the "meaning" of the poem.
Why (simplified): Sometimes readers believe the poem has contradictory ideas. No one writing a great poem is trying to write contradictory ideas.
Gap: How does what the reader believes the poem is about relate to the "meaning"? Even if you can't find the gap, you can test the answers using the negation trick.
A) We don't care about different readers and actually the stimulus tells us this in the first line. Sometimes one reads a poem... etc. So some people may get one impression and others may get another. Doesn't help us.
B) The key phrase here is one primary idea. Watch the wording. The author may express multiple ideas, our argument is only talking about ideas that contradict.
C) We already know readers may have different ideas. Also, this doesn't explain our gap because it's talking about meaning in relation to the readers and author. We want that connection between ideas and meaning.
D) Once again, author may express multiple ideas. We don't know whether all are discernible. So this is out of scope. This certainly could be an assumption the stimulus is making but we don't explicitly know the stimulus is making this assumption.
E) This states our gap exactly. Reader believes the poem expresses contradictory ideas. It is then part of the meaning. Therefore, whatever the author is trying to say is not necessarily the meaning of the poem. Try negating it and see what it does to the argument: If a reader believes that a poem expresses a particular idea then that idea is NOT part of the meaning of the poem. Well, then we can't draw our conclusion if that is true.
Hopefully that is somewhat helpful!
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- andrewgong01
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Atticus Finch
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
After reading the replies, I don't think I understand the argument
It seems like to me conclusion is the second sentence where it is wrong to think the meaning of the poem is the intent of the authors. Why? Some of us reading a poem think it expresses contradictory ideas but no one who is writing a poem has the intention to communicate contradictory ideas
Before considering the gap, I just do not understand what the argument is trying to argue. It says that authors have no intention on giving a contradictory poem and therefore the meaning of the poem is not whatever the author intends to communicate but isn't the author only having one intention to begin with? I think my confusion lies in what exactly the conclusion is trying to argue because it seems like the premise taken together is saying that readers find contradictory ideas but poets do not intend on communicating contradictory ideas.
I am not sure how the core of the argument would look
It seems like to me conclusion is the second sentence where it is wrong to think the meaning of the poem is the intent of the authors. Why? Some of us reading a poem think it expresses contradictory ideas but no one who is writing a poem has the intention to communicate contradictory ideas
Before considering the gap, I just do not understand what the argument is trying to argue. It says that authors have no intention on giving a contradictory poem and therefore the meaning of the poem is not whatever the author intends to communicate but isn't the author only having one intention to begin with? I think my confusion lies in what exactly the conclusion is trying to argue because it seems like the premise taken together is saying that readers find contradictory ideas but poets do not intend on communicating contradictory ideas.
I am not sure how the core of the argument would look
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- ohthatpatrick
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Atticus Finch
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
CONC:
The meaning of a poem is NOT "whatever the author was intending to communicate".
(how do we know?)
EVID:
because authors of great poems are NOT intending to communicate contradictory ideas,
yet readers of some great poems believe that the poem expresses contradictory ideas.
Part of why you may have had a hard time understanding the core is because there's a huge difference between discussing "what the author intended to express" and "what the reader believes the poem expresses".
In order for the author to win her conclusion, she has to invalidate the definition for "the meaning of a poem".
If people have defined "the meaning of a poem" to be "whatever the author intends to communicate", then the author can show the definition is invalid by providing an example in which
meaning of a poem ≠ what the author intended
Authors never intend contradictory ideas, so the author would invalidate the definition if she could provide an example in which
meaning of a poem = contradictory ideas ≠ author's intent
Does the author provide an example in which
"meaning of a poem = contradictory ideas"?
Nope, but she provides an example in which
"reader's belief of poem = contradictory ideas"
So (E) is patching together
"reader's belief of poem" with "meaning of a poem"
The meaning of a poem is NOT "whatever the author was intending to communicate".
(how do we know?)
EVID:
because authors of great poems are NOT intending to communicate contradictory ideas,
yet readers of some great poems believe that the poem expresses contradictory ideas.
Part of why you may have had a hard time understanding the core is because there's a huge difference between discussing "what the author intended to express" and "what the reader believes the poem expresses".
In order for the author to win her conclusion, she has to invalidate the definition for "the meaning of a poem".
If people have defined "the meaning of a poem" to be "whatever the author intends to communicate", then the author can show the definition is invalid by providing an example in which
meaning of a poem ≠ what the author intended
Authors never intend contradictory ideas, so the author would invalidate the definition if she could provide an example in which
meaning of a poem = contradictory ideas ≠ author's intent
Does the author provide an example in which
"meaning of a poem = contradictory ideas"?
Nope, but she provides an example in which
"reader's belief of poem = contradictory ideas"
So (E) is patching together
"reader's belief of poem" with "meaning of a poem"
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- em71
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Vinny Gambini
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
Sorry for resurrecting this post but I just took this practice test.
Patrick, when you use the term 'author', are you referring both to the author of this argument, as well as the author of the poems within the stimulus, aka poets? I'm trying to follow your explanation as best as I can.
Patrick, when you use the term 'author', are you referring both to the author of this argument, as well as the author of the poems within the stimulus, aka poets? I'm trying to follow your explanation as best as I can.
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- CarolineZ310
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Vinny Gambini
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Re: Q24 - Sometimes one reads a poem
Geez I think I was mentally exhausted
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