Q5 - Everyone in Biba's neighborhood

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

Question Type
Must be True

Stimulus
We are given the following 3 statements: First, Biba's Neighborhood --> Permitted to Swim; Second, 12-5pm --> No Children under 6; Third, 5pm-Close --> Adults Only.

Answer Prephrase
That leaves us wondering ... when are the children under 6 permitted to swim? Well, first we're assuming that there are children under 6 years old. If there aren't any such children, there isn't an issue. But if there are children under 6 years old, then must be permitted to swim before 12pm.

Correct Answer
(B) is correct. We were wondering whether there were children under 6 and when they would be permitted to swim at the neighborhood pool.

Incorrect Answers
(A) could be false. There could be a ton of children under 6 years old, so long as they permitted to swim in the pool before 12pm.

(C) could be false. This answer choice speculates on the number of adult users of the pool after 5pm.

(D) could be false. We are not given information about whether there are children over 6 years old in Biba's neighborhood.

(E) could be false. The statements leave open the possibility that children over 6 years old can swim in Barton pool between 12-5pm.

#officialexplanation

[angela-a]

Can someone please explain to me properly why B is the answer. is it because it states that everyone is permitted to swim, and there was no actual reference to chidren below the age of 6.

[elizabeth.r.casanova]

Hi Angela!

Yes, I think you understand this problem better than you think you do.

Stimulus tells us:
-Everyone in Biba's neighborhood (minimum age to maximum age) is allowed to swim at some time during Barton pool open hours = (in neighborhood -> allowed to use pool some time during open hours)
-12 to 5 PM: swimmers must be >= 6 years old
-5 PM to Close: swimmers must be only adults (likely 18), so swimmers absolutely have to be > 6 years old

(B) is the correct answer because
1)it gives us a hypothetical situation: "if there is a child under the age of 6 (for the sake of example, let's say this child, Sam, is 4) in Biba's neighborhood"
+
2)applies the information given in the stimulus to come up with what must be true/the necessary condition of the hypothetical situation:
Given the information above, we know that 4 year old Sam cannot swim from 12 to close. Yet, we also know that EVERYONE, including Sam, gets to swim at some point during the pools open hours. Thus, the pool must have additional open hours, which could only be before 12 PM.

Incorrect answer choices don't have to be true, aka: could be false
(A) We are not given an information about how many children under the age of 6 are living in the neighborhood. It's possible that TONS of kids under the age of 6 live in Biba's neighborhood.
(C) We are not given any information about the # of children who are 6+ or the # of adults. What if only 10 children (0 adults) swim in the afternoon from 12 - 5 PM, but 100 adults swim from 5 PM to close? The pool would generally be more crowded after 5 PM, not less crowded.
(D) We are not given info about frequency of pool visits, we only know who/when people are permitted/not permitted to swim. It is absolutely possible that children don't ever go to the pool. Maybe they are too busy with other activities.
(E)"Any" makes this answer wrong. As long as the child is >= 6 years old, he/she is not breaking any rules.

Hope this helps!

[adarsh.murthy]

I dont agree. The stimulus does not say that everyone gets to swim. It says everyone is permitted to swim in the bartons pool, and that on everyday that the pool is open. So, it may be that the pool is not open some day. The if else in B says that the pool is open just because there is a child under 6 in the neighbourhood. I guessed B, but I think this a very badly worded stimulus with modifier ambiguity. A bit atypical for LSAT.

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

I think this a very badly worded stimulus with modifier ambiguity. A bit atypical for LSAT.

I'm not sure I see it that way. How do you see the pool being closed some days

So, it may be that the pool is not open some day.

as creating a problem for answer choice (B)?

Btw, great explanation elizabeth.r.casanova!

[xinglipku]

I dont agree. The stimulus does not say that everyone gets to swim. It says everyone is permitted to swim in the bartons pool, and that on everyday that the pool is open. So, it may be that the pool is not open some day. The if else in B says that the pool is open just because there is a child under 6 in the neighbourhood. I guessed B, but I think this a very badly worded stimulus with modifier ambiguity. A bit atypical for LSAT.

Yes, I agree with you. The stimulus just says everyone is permitted to swim "when the pool is open", but it doesn't say the pool has to be open in order to let everyone be able to swim. Doesn't it? In another word, it doesn't impose an obligation for the pool to open to accommodate everyone's needs. Am I wrong?

[tian.application]

Just did this section today and had the same question regarding choice B. I didn't pick it unfortunately..

Here is my rationale. I agree totally that the fact of having a child under 6 doesn't necessarily make the pool open for him/her at all.
HOWEVER, if we negate B, makes it look like "if there is a child under 6, and pool will not be open before noon". This will destroy the premise that "everyone is permitted". I mean, if the pool is not even open for you during the only time section that you are allow to swim, how can the pool owner claim that everybody is permitted to swim?

Don't know I made myself clear but that's my thought.

[cyt5015]

I missed this one for the same reason, but after a second thought, I think B make sense. The premise says: everyone in B's neighborhood is permitted to swim on each open day. The swim pool can be open and close on some day, but once it is open, everyone in neighborhood is permitted. Answer B does not state that the pool must be open everyday before noon, instead it says the pool is open before noon ( if it is open). Think about it this way, if the pool is open but not before noon, will that violate the premise "everyone in B's neighborhood is permitted to swim on each open day"? Therefore, the pool has to be open before noon if it is open.
hope that helps.

[mikewsquires]

I have a question regarding this question. Could it be true that children under the age of six could be permitted to swim after say 10:00 p.m.? We don't have any information on when the pool closes or opens. There is no information that leads us to believe that the pool could open before noon or close after the adult swim time. Where must we infer that children under 6 MUST swim before 12:00 pm? Could they not as easily be allotted a time to swim AFTER the adult swim time? There is absolutely nothing that indicates that the pool must be open before noon. Likewise there is nothing that indicates that the pool must close at a certain hour. It simply states "until closely", yet could the pool stay open until 2:00 am? What evidence is there against it closing before then, or opening before noon?

[bhersk89]

It simply states "until closely", yet could the pool stay open until 2:00 am? What evidence is there against it closing before then, or opening before noon?

The question reads "From 5 PM until closing." This clearly shows that the adult swim period goes until closing

[stacksdoe]

I also have a question:

Is it just me, but I don't see the connection between the existence of a child and the pool being open. And, if I take the contrapositive, as someone pointed out earlier, it doesn't follow the facts of the stimulus:
I need someone to explain how the contrapositive is valid answer choice B.

CU6---> POB12
Contrapositive: --POB12---> -CU6

How is it valid to infer that-the contrapositive- if the pool is closed before noon then there is no child under 6?
The neighbor could have a child under the age of 6 and take him/her to a different pool. I must be missing something?
Please help on this, detail piece by piece breakdown!!!!

[maryadkins]

You also have to use the information telling you that everyone in the neighborhood is allowed to swim at some point. So if there's a kid under 6 in the neighborhood, that kid has to be allowed to swim at SOME point. The kid can't swim anytime that day after noon. So the pool must be open before noon.

[ZarkaS555]

I dont agree. The stimulus does not say that everyone gets to swim. It says everyone is permitted to swim in the bartons pool, and that on everyday that the pool is open. So, it may be that the pool is not open some day. The if else in B says that the pool is open just because there is a child under 6 in the neighbourhood. I guessed B, but I think this a very badly worded stimulus with modifier ambiguity. A bit atypical for LSAT.

I did not see the stimulus that way at all. Answer choice B tells us that if the neighbor has a child under the age of 6, the pool is open before noon, in that that the pool is open to them before noon for swimming. This doesn't necessarily reflect on whether the pool is open for regular business or not. Plus the entire stimulus makes no claim about when the pool is open for business and when it isn't, why rule out an answer choice because of something arbitrary?

[RyanC307]

I struggled with this question/answer choice B for the same reason as many of the previous posters.

I think the issue is in the interpretation of "then Barton pool is open before noon". The writers meant for this to be interpreted as: when the Barton pool is open, it is open before noon. And not: the Barton pool is currently open before noon.

This ambiguity to me is dumb to have, especially for a MBT question.

The most plausible reading is that B is saying: if there is a child under 6 in this neighborhood, then the pool is open before noon (meaning the pool is open). But an easy counterexample is: neighbour is under 6, and the pool is closed that day (and not open at noon). Stim says nothing about the pool being open everyday, and imo that's an unreasonable assumption to make, pools close for a variety of reasons.

Especially considering "Everyone... is permitted to swim at Barton's pool at some time during each day it is open", I thought B was a trap for people who assumed the pool would be open everyday, and neglected the obvious counterexample.

IMO the LSAT was very careless with conditional logic here