Logic Challenge #5 - The Interviews

[carina.ballard]

A few questions about this game:

2. If Todd interviews a candidate in the 3rd time slot, each of the following must be true EXCEPT:
I determined each one to be true unless I am doing something wrong, which I guess I must be.
I set it up like this:
1.K 2.I 3.G 4.J 5.F 6.H
1.T 2.S 3.T 4.S 5.R 6.T

4. Which of the following is a complete and accurate list of the time slots in which Felix can be interviewed?
I answered D (fourth and fifth). The answer key says B (third and fifth).
If Felix is interviewed 3rd, how can this comply with the constraint that Sarah must interview twice prior to Robert? If Felix must be interviewed by Robert, than that would required Sarah to interview twice prior to Felix, which would cause her to interview in both the 1st and 2nd time slot in order for Felix to be interviewed 3rd which does not comply with the second to last constraint, that no interviewer may interview consecutive candidates.

6. Which of the following assignments effectively determines every candidate and managers schedule?
The answer key says A (Kelsey being interviewed fifth) however if Kelsey is interviewed fifth, that causes Felix to be interviewed third (in order to fit the chunk of FH), which again goes against the constraints listed for #4 where Sarah must interview twice prior to Robert and no interviewer can interview consecutive candidates.

I appreciate any help

[noah]

For number 2, you've written out one possible solution. But the K and G can switch places.

For number 4, I think you're misreading the constraint about R and S. It doesn't say that R can only interview after both of S's interviews. It can be S - T - R - S - R - T. The rule states that there must be an R after the second S (and then no more S's).

For number 6, I think it's the same issue as with number 4. Try it again and tell me how it goes.

Does that clear it up? Tell me if you have any more questions about this game.

- Noah

[lizho]

For #6, I did select A as the correct answer. However, the answer key shows E as the posted solutions show E as the right answer. Noah, can you confirm that A is actually correct?

[noah]

Yes, it's A. We updated our games recently (working to make our language more LSAT-like) and apparently the incorrect answer got highlighted -- so sorry about that! I'll fix it now. Do you have a good diagram for the game? I'm sure folks would like to see how others solved it (it's a tough game!). - Noah

[dd.donaldson21]

If you could, I would appreciate if you could post a detailed explanation of how you are solving the logic games because of now it's just showing the answers but no explanation of how you set up the problem or whatever.

[noah]

We leave these games to your students to explain -- and they usually do an incredible job at it. Who's up for the challenge? This is a tough game, so I'll offer a free strategy guide (one of ours -- not another company!) to whomever writes out the best explanation by the end of January...

[xhelenyi]

The solution for #6 shows "(E) Sarah interviewing fourth" as being the correct answer....

[noah]

The solution for #6 shows "(E) Sarah interviewing fourth" as being the correct answer....

Thanks for pointing that out! It's clearly a complex computer virus that lead to that error - cough, cough.

[acisne7]

Did anyone diagram this game? I had a hard time with it because I wrote the constraint S-S-R (for the constraint that talked about the R coming after the second and final interview for S). So I assumed there was only one R and two S but I saw how I did it wrong. I was wondering if for this game we should draw the possibilities or should we just use one main frame?

[stephanie.deherrera]

Did anyone diagram this game? I had a hard time with it because I wrote the constraint S-S-R (for the constraint that talked about the R coming after the second and final interview for S). So I assumed there was only one R and two S but I saw how I did it wrong. I was wondering if for this game we should draw the possibilities or should we just use one main frame?

I have this exact same question...seems like these posts are rather old, but I would still love to see a diagram for this one! I'm having trouble with frames on this one, but am convinced they will help if I can get them down!

Thank you

[noah]

I just threw this diagram together.

Logic Challenge 5 - The Interviews - Manhattan LSAT.pdf

(118.9 KiB) Downloaded 1336 times

I wrote this game a couple of years ago and haven't solved it since - my goodness it's tough! There are so many rules to contend with when making the diagram - and many of the questions are also work-intensive. It's not the most realistic game I've written, but it's great practice!

Tell me if you have any questions about the diagram or game - though I'd love to see someone else solve it and write how they did it.

[kdeclark]

I ended up framing this game around the possible S-S-R placements. After coming up with four frames, I realized that one of them doesn't work with the other constraints: S_SR_ _. You're forced to put T in 6, and then to put T in 2 (which you're forced to do because T goes with I, on the second line that I didn't write above), and S would then have to go in spot 5 (to avoid consecutive placements at 4,5 and 5,6); so since one rule is that S only goes twice, and we've already used it twice, this frame is out).

So I was left with 3 frames. (Let me know if you think I've made a mistake already.) These ended up being really helpful. However, it took me more time to put those frames together than I'd like to publicize. My question is whether this game is one you'd realistically do frames for. I will say that once I put them together a LOT could be determined. However, like I said, it wasn't easy putting them all together.

Thanks!

[noah]

That's interesting - I would not have thought of framing it, but I see that there are indeed only 4 spots for the S - S - R (R) chain. (And I'll take your word that one of them doesn't work).

Whether this was worthwhile depends mostly on whether you were able to make further inferences for each frame. How about you post the results of each frame? (If it's easier to scan it and e-mail it to me, I can post it for you). That said, if all you ended up with were a few "shells" it still might have been worth it, just for helping you conceptualize the game.

The timing is a tough one - it shouldn't have been an ungodly amount. But, it is a rather tough game - perhaps tougher than what you'd really see on the LSAT. But, overall, as long as the framing time paid off so that the overall game time was within reason, you're good.

[kdeclark]

Here are the four frames from "The Interview" game. I don't have a scanner, so I just took a picture. (The quality isn't great, but it's readable.)

The main board is at the top. The "?" subscript under R and T indicate that we don't know how many of those there are. Also, you'll notice that one of the frames is crossed out. That's for the reason I explained in the last post--no consecutive placements are allowed on the top line (so 5 can't be S, R, or T).

Frame 4 ended up being really useful, and you can almost completely fill it in.

I'd be interested to know whether other people see more inferences than I have here, or whether there is an obvious error I've made.

[noah]

That looks pretty good! (I haven't checked all the inferences, though I do notice you don't have the S restrictions in your original board).

I'd say that even though there aren't a ton of further inferences in two of the three viable frames, it still seems worth it since there's not much more to figure out.

I wouldn't say this is the way to solve it - but definitely a workable method - and a slick one!

Let's see if some other logic jockey figures out something else about your frames...

[zagreus77]

Yeah, just getting those templates down changes this from a very tough to a fairly simple problem.

[browncoool1]

nice posts..........

[saldonbiz]

Can someone please provide explanations to question # 6


Much appreciated !

[leeniixbeenii]

I need an explanation for the constraints themselves; I feel like the language is sort of confusing.
"No manager may interview consecutive candidates"
and "After Sarah’s second (and final) interview, Rob must interview exactly one candidate" confused me because If Kelsey was 5th, (for question #6) and if my understanding is correct that Felix interviewed by Rob has to be after Sarah's second and final interview then it would be Sarah interviewing Jade first, then Sarah interviewing Inga, then Rob interviewing Felix, Todd interviewing Harry, Todd interviewing Kelsey (5th slot), and Todd interviewing Gilley. This wouldn't make sense if by "no manager may interview consecutive candidates" it means that no manager can interview twice in consecutive time slots - so I'm confused if that's what it means or if it means that no candidate can be interviewed consecutively. And since it didn't say "immediately" after Sarah's second interview, we also don't know if Felix (by Rob) has to go right after or just in general after.... it's easy to figure out the pattern once you've got the language down. So if someone can explain/clarify the language/constraints, I would greatly appreciate it!!

Leen

[Antnat]

If I understood correctly, "no manager may interview consecutive candidates" means that the same manager cannot conduct interviews two times in a row. In other words, if T interviews somebody, then R or S must come next right after him.
As for your other question regarding the meaning of, "After Sarah’s second (and final) interview, Rob must interview exactly one candidate" I believe this gives us two hints. First, from this we learn that Sarah interviews two times (only) and Rob must interview after that, but it does not necessarily mean that he has an interview directly after her.
Since there are 6 slots and each manager has to interview at least once, the number of times each managers interview can be the following groupings: 1-1-4, 1-2-3, 2-2-2. However, 1-1-4 is not possible, since S interviews (only) twice. Thus the possible groupings are, either [S x 2, R x 2, T x 2] or [R x 1, S x 2, T x 3] (R cannot be placed three times, since he cannot interview consecutively and also because he cannot interview first or last) .
Keeping in mind that no two managers can interview twice, R must come after the second S, and R cannot be first or last, I think we can initially get the following 5 options:
1-2-3 patterns:
i. TSTSRT
ii. STSTRT
2-2-2 patterns:
iii. STRSRT
iv. TSRSRT
v. SRTSRT

But, if you look closely, (v) clashes with the rule "I comes second" and "R cannot be paired with I", so we must get rid of this. Now we are left with the top 4 patterns.

As for question 6, if K is 5th, we know that it must be the pattern where there are two Rs. (so, either iii or iv). Why? Because if you look at the 4 options above, R appears in the fifth slot each time. However, R must be paired with F, so it means that there must be another R where R can be paired with F.

For now, we get the following diagram from iii and iv:

1 2 3 4 5 6
_ I F H K _
_ _ R S R T

Next, we can insert S with J in slot one (from the fact that neither T nor R can be with J)

1 2 3 4 5 6
J I F H K _
S _ R S R T

That leaves us with G in slot 6 and T in slot 2.

Thus, if K is fifth, it effectively determines every candidate and manager’s schedule.

I hope this helps.