Diagram

[dj_grey]

Can someone set this up?

[noah]

I have a diagram for this and will put it up in a bit, but if you're game, let me challenge you. This is a great game to frame -- two big chunks is the tip-off. Let's see what you can come up with...

[dj_grey]

I have a diagram but for some reason could not figure out a way to do so.

1: Can only be F/G
2: Can not be J, O, L
3: Can not be J, O, L
4: Can not be O, L
5: Can not be K, O
6: Can not be H, K
7: Can not be H, K
8: Can not be M, J , H, L, K
8: Can only be either O, F/G

But even with this diagram the problem still took me a long time........so i thought perhaps i was missing something.

[noah]

Those are the first level inferences, but now go through and figure out where you can put the two chunks. Start with H _ J starting in slot 2, where does K _ _ L have to go? Then what if H _ J is in slot 3 . . .

[dj_grey]

Other things:
1) If O is not at 8 then F/G is at 1 and eight.
2) You can not have KH.
3) Can have HK as long as O comes after L.
4) K can only be in position 2, 3, or 4

[noah]

Here's a possible set of frames based on the limited number of places the K __ __ L chunk can be placed:

[matthewyoung2008]

im always torn as to when to put up frames and when just to brute-force it

in this case, when i first did it brute force, it could be done under 5 minutes

but in my second attempt some days later, i decided to frame it and ended up spending just under 8 minutes

4 frames is kind of costly for only 5 problems.

[shodges]

im always torn as to when to put up frames and when just to brute-force it

in this case, when i first did it brute force, it could be done under 5 minutes

but in my second attempt some days later, i decided to frame it and ended up spending just under 8 minutes

4 frames is kind of costly for only 5 problems.

the problem I see with this is that I had kind of the opposite problem when I did it without framing (although I was able to do it both ways in under the 8:45) because if you don't frame you have to be REALLY sure of the inferences you make and there aren't ways to diagram them that are as visually stable as frames

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

The thing about frames is that it's a tool. Some people like that particular tool, others don't. Personally, I rely on them heavily, but I can tell you from working with lots of other really great instructors that they don't utilize them nearly as much.

There's definitely an element of preference and comfort when it comes to using frames.