Diagram

[rivers.sam10]

I had to skip this game during a practice test but when I went over it I found it to still be pretty tough. From what I could gather :
Y/Z could occupy space 1
Obviously T in space 3
W in space 6
S in space 7

Those in spaces 5 and 6 had to confess, S of course could not since it is after W
Also Z can only be in 1 or 2

With this information, which took me a bit of time to infer, I still found the game confusing. I am wondering if these inferences are correct and if anyone who completed this game with moderate ease can post their diagram and process for each question.

[noah]

Nice work on the inferences. I didn't infer anything other than what you did.
I found the set-up a bit time-consuming, and found it particularly useful to take the constraints out of order, and do a second swing through them, but then the questions were pretty straightforward as long as I was thorough in working out what each new condition meant.

Most of the questions hinged on the issue of who confessed and who did not, or who could have confessed and who could not. (I wonder if anyone was tortured.) I showed my mini diagram for #16, as I think it's typical for this game and it also shows how often you should not go "all the way" with working out scenarios. This is particularly true with a could be true EXCEPT, which is really a MUST BE FALSE question. With must be conditional questions, we should be able to solve it by following the inference chain and without exploring "could be trues".

For #14, on the other hand, you should diagram the new rule: V - Y - X, add in the rest of the game: Z - V - T - Y - X, add in the confession issue:

NC C
Z - V - T - Y - X,

and then the answer is going to be in the unfilled part of the mini-diagram, since it's a "could be true" question. (If it were "which must be true/false", then we'd expect the answer to be about Y or X confessing or not).

Good idea to keep replaying games as you creep towards test day.

Tell me if you have any further thoughts or questions about this game, or if you notice that I've made a mistake.

- Noah

[spieg02]

how did you figure out how many people confess or not? does it matter how many confess? it seems to based on the questions? why does Z have to be the second to confess as was written previously in the thread?
too many questions for this game.

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

Good point of clarification...

It's only for question 13 that Z must be the second person to confess, and that's only because the question provides that conditional piece of information!

Good luck!

[levine.jesse]

I get all the inferences in the first post. I do not understand question 16.

I'm trying to place X V Z Y in spots 1,2,4,5 so that neither X nor Y are in 4th place. What am I missing?

Z in 1 or 2 and Y can always avoid the 4 spot and I can interchange x and v...

I must be missin something but this is driving me nuts.

[vincentsallan]

For question 13, does it mean that a suspect confesses before Z or does it mean that Z goes in spot 2 and what's before it is open?

[hnadgauda]

I did this question with frames. I recognized that since S, X, V, and W could not go in position 1, only Z or Y could be in position 1. Based on this, I made frames with Z and Y in position 1.

Do you have any thoughts on whether using frames here is too time-consuming?

[ohthatpatrick]

Frames could definitely be done.

Your general "Should I frame questions" should be
1. Is there a CHUNK with only 2-4 options?

2. Is there some "either this or that" choice that would trigger other stuff.

Does your observation that "either Z or Y is in spot 1" trigger other stuff?

If not, it's better to just write Z/Y in spot 1, and keep it all in one master diagram.

If so, go for it! (and it seems like when Y is 1, we're a little more boxed in)

You'd get something like this?

Y Z T (X, V) W S
Z __ T __ __ W S (Y, X, V can go in any of the remaining three spots)

[dontmesswmeow]

Why is this thread appropriated for discussion of game #3 (Suspect game)?

The label here is #4 (High school debate tournament) and I'm looking for any relevant information around..

[ohthatpatrick]

It looks like there's a problem on the backend of the website.

I just checked Game 3, and IT shows the posts for Game 4:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/lsat/foru ... -t460.html

So, for now, just go to game 3 on this test to read / add to the thread about game 4.

I'll email our helpdesk in the meantime about fixing it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention!

[MairaP706]

Can someone explain how you arrived at the answer for question 13? I am unsure as to why Y did not confess.

[StephanieS945]

Hi, hope I can help the understanding here.

The question asks for "Could be true EXCEPT" so we know the four wrong answer COULD be true. A quick scan of the answer choices shows that we are being asked to determine "Could be true" in relation to the Confess/Not Confess. The right answer is therefore will be someting defined[i][/i] in the diagram, so we want to keep our eye out for elements or positions that their confess/not confess status is determined.

A: Could be true. T could have confessed or could not have--we don't know and no new information lets us know the answer.
B: Could be true. Same reason as choice A, we don't know if T did or didn't confess!
C: Could be true. V can go in possitions 4 or 5. If V went into position 4, we know they did not confess. However, since V is interchangeable with X, it could go in 5. Therefore, V could have confessed!
D: Could be true. Since X is interchagneable with V, its easy to see based on the same logic as answer choice C that X could have confessed (if in position 5) or could have not confession (if in position 4).
E: Must be false! Bingo. The question gives us more information "Z was the second suspect ot confess". Ok, What does that tell us? Well, since we know Z can only be in positions 1 or 2 (since X & V must go after Z), then we know Z must be in position 2. How do we know this? If Z is the 2nd person to confess, there must be someone who confessed before Z! Who could that be? Only Y. Therefore, Y must have been the first person to confess and answer choice E must be false.

[DevorahK415]

a) where is the digram on this thread?
b) Can someone walk me through these inferences:
"W in space 6
S in space 7"
"Those in spaces 5 and 6 had to confess"
Thanks!

[DevorahK415]

From 12:
"We know there are two confessions in spots 5, 6, 7.
And we know that nothing after W can confess. So W would either have to be 6 or 7 in order to fit in those two confessions in 5/6/7.

But we also know we have W - S.

So it looks like W has to be 6 and S has to be 7.

__ __ T __ __ W S

We know S didn't confess (since it's after W), so 5 and 6 have to be confessions.
__ __ __ n c c n
__ __ T __ __ W S

With Z before X and V, we know that Z is 1 or 2. "

[Laura Damone]

Hi Devorah,

The diagram is posted in a pdf linked in the second post from the top by Noah. Check it out, and if you still have questions, post again and we'll field them!