Hi,
I took the GMAT for the first time about two weeks after my MGMAT course ended, at the end of September. I scored a 690 (62nd% on quant, 95% on verbal). My math score dropped quite a bit from what I had been seeing on practice tests (79th or 81st percentile), and with such an unbalanced score, I wanted to give it another go.
My timing was bad on both sections, but especially the math, where I don't think I even got an answer in on the last problem (it was definitely a guess, and I don't think I hit submit before the time ran out). I also had the guess randomly on the 2 before that.
I feel like my timing remains bad (quant only) - on several practice tests I've had to randomly guess on the last few questions. I'm trying hard to guess throughout the test (still having to guess randomly on AT least 3-4 questions, just doing it earlier than the very end) but right now that's translating to rushing - even on questions that I technically know how to answer.
I've had my post-exam assessment, have been studying for about 2 weeks now, and am taking the exam in 3 weeks. I am working on timing and getting better, but have two questions.
1) I don't really see my scores on practice tests improving by much. Since the real gmat, I've taken two MGMAT exams. On the first I got a 720 (47Q, 42V) and the second a 710 (47Q, 40V). Before the real gmat I'd gotten scores of 690 and 710 on MGMAT, and 750 on PowerPrep. I'm studying a fair amount (going over each and every question on the practice tests and making flashcards for the ones that were slow or wrong, and did the same for the entire problem solving section of the OG quant review book). I'm trying to figure out if I need to change my strategy here, as the studying does not seem to be paying off.
2) I'm having a lot of trouble with probability, and to a slightly lesser extent, combinatorics. I know I'm not likely to see very many of these questions on the test, and I can get the 600-700 level ones right the vast majority of the time, but if I get a 700-800 level combinatorics or probability question, I'm almost guaranteed to get it wrong. I've been through the strategy guide and I get all the basic concepts, but I don't seem to be able to translate the GMAT questions into understandable types that let me use those concepts. Should I give up and cut my losses, and use that time elsewhere? Or should I keep trying to nail these? If the answer is keep trying, and you have any advice, I'd certainly appreciate it!
Thank you!
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- kean.allison
- Course Students
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:18 pm
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: Where to focus - strengths or weaknesses? / Timing Issues
I'm sorry you didn't get the score you wanted, but congrats on hitting 690 - that's still a great overall score!
If you had an answer in at the end, then the official test will accept it, even if you didn't click "next" or "confirm." But the fact that you made 3 random guesses in a row likely means you got all 3 wrong. And I assume you didn't notice you were behind on time with only 3 questions to go, right? You were probably already rushing before that, which probably meant you got other questions wrong as a result of rushing. A string of wrong answers in a row is basically the worst thing you can do to your score.
So - you have to fix this timing problem. Otherwise, it's going to be tough for you to get your quant up to 80+ percentile.
As you may already know from class, you will ALWAYS have to guess, no matter how good you get. Most people have to guess on 4-7 questions per section, so you actually still have a little more room if you're usually only making 3 or 4 guesses!
You need to do a couple of things:
1) know about how long 1 min is without looking at the clock
2) keep track of overall timing as you work through the section
3) know how to make educated guesses on problems of different types
4) NEVER go over 2.5m on a quant problem - if you haven't gotten it by that point, you're probably going to get it wrong no matter how much time you spend (remember that these questions are designed such that there is a 2-min solution, so if you're not finding that solution, that means you don't really know how to do this problem)
You have a stopwatch (from class) with lap timing capability. When you go to do a set of problems, start the stopwatch but turn it over so you can't see the time. Every time you think one minute has gone by, push the lap button. When you're done, see how good you were - and whether you tend to over or underestimate. Get yourself to the point where you're within 15 seconds either way on a regular basis (that is, you can generally predict between 45 sec and 1min 15 sec).
Now, how do you use that when doing problems? If you're not on track by one minute, make an educated guess and move on. (The general idea is that if you're not on track by the halfway mark, you're unlikely to figure out what's holding you back AND have time to do the whole problem in the 1 min you have left.)
As you go through the section, use your timing benchmarks. When you're done with question 10, you should have about 55 minutes left. When you're done with question 20, you should have about 35 minutes left. And so on. If you discover that you are behind on time, here's what to do:
- if you're within 2 minutes of where you should be, it's okay - do nothing
- if you're more than 2 minutes slow (eg, the clock says 52 minutes after Q10), figure out how far behind you are. 55-52 = 3min, but you have a "grace period" of 2m, so you're 1 min behind. On the next really hard problem that pops up, make a random guess (within 30 sec). Voila: you're on time again. And all you sacrificed was a single, very hard problem. If you're 3 min behind, make 2 random guesses, but spread the guesses out a little bit - again, the hardest questions that you see next.
While you're doing this, remind yourself that you're going to get about 40% of the questions wrong, so it's really not a big deal. Don't freak out - there's nothing wrong with doing this. In fact, it's exactly what you should do, so you should feel good that you're dealing with the test in the right way.
On your practice test scores, I wouldn't expect major changes even with the work you're doing because you say you're still messing up the timing - so you're essentially relying on an element of luck (do I guess right when I run out of time at the end? and how easy are the questions that I get wrong when I'm rushing?). You know you're going to have to guess at some point. If you can choose to make your guesses on the hardest ones (as opposed to being forced to on the last ones), then at the least, you probably won't experience the score drop you had last time - and, at best, you may actually see a slight bump in your scores.
You're likely to see a grand total of 1 prob and comb question combined. (If you get a second, one was likely an experimental.) If you can already handle the sub-700 questions, then you're good - don't worry about 700+ questions. Your goal for your weaknesses is for those weaknesses not to pull you down, and you're already there. Don't waste precious study time on the very small chance that you'll get one 700+ question in that category. :) (By the way, remember that giving up and cutting your losses on the very hardest quant questions means doing so at the latest by the 2m mark - and ideally faster.)
If you had an answer in at the end, then the official test will accept it, even if you didn't click "next" or "confirm." But the fact that you made 3 random guesses in a row likely means you got all 3 wrong. And I assume you didn't notice you were behind on time with only 3 questions to go, right? You were probably already rushing before that, which probably meant you got other questions wrong as a result of rushing. A string of wrong answers in a row is basically the worst thing you can do to your score.
So - you have to fix this timing problem. Otherwise, it's going to be tough for you to get your quant up to 80+ percentile.
As you may already know from class, you will ALWAYS have to guess, no matter how good you get. Most people have to guess on 4-7 questions per section, so you actually still have a little more room if you're usually only making 3 or 4 guesses!
You need to do a couple of things:
1) know about how long 1 min is without looking at the clock
2) keep track of overall timing as you work through the section
3) know how to make educated guesses on problems of different types
4) NEVER go over 2.5m on a quant problem - if you haven't gotten it by that point, you're probably going to get it wrong no matter how much time you spend (remember that these questions are designed such that there is a 2-min solution, so if you're not finding that solution, that means you don't really know how to do this problem)
You have a stopwatch (from class) with lap timing capability. When you go to do a set of problems, start the stopwatch but turn it over so you can't see the time. Every time you think one minute has gone by, push the lap button. When you're done, see how good you were - and whether you tend to over or underestimate. Get yourself to the point where you're within 15 seconds either way on a regular basis (that is, you can generally predict between 45 sec and 1min 15 sec).
Now, how do you use that when doing problems? If you're not on track by one minute, make an educated guess and move on. (The general idea is that if you're not on track by the halfway mark, you're unlikely to figure out what's holding you back AND have time to do the whole problem in the 1 min you have left.)
As you go through the section, use your timing benchmarks. When you're done with question 10, you should have about 55 minutes left. When you're done with question 20, you should have about 35 minutes left. And so on. If you discover that you are behind on time, here's what to do:
- if you're within 2 minutes of where you should be, it's okay - do nothing
- if you're more than 2 minutes slow (eg, the clock says 52 minutes after Q10), figure out how far behind you are. 55-52 = 3min, but you have a "grace period" of 2m, so you're 1 min behind. On the next really hard problem that pops up, make a random guess (within 30 sec). Voila: you're on time again. And all you sacrificed was a single, very hard problem. If you're 3 min behind, make 2 random guesses, but spread the guesses out a little bit - again, the hardest questions that you see next.
While you're doing this, remind yourself that you're going to get about 40% of the questions wrong, so it's really not a big deal. Don't freak out - there's nothing wrong with doing this. In fact, it's exactly what you should do, so you should feel good that you're dealing with the test in the right way.
On your practice test scores, I wouldn't expect major changes even with the work you're doing because you say you're still messing up the timing - so you're essentially relying on an element of luck (do I guess right when I run out of time at the end? and how easy are the questions that I get wrong when I'm rushing?). You know you're going to have to guess at some point. If you can choose to make your guesses on the hardest ones (as opposed to being forced to on the last ones), then at the least, you probably won't experience the score drop you had last time - and, at best, you may actually see a slight bump in your scores.
You're likely to see a grand total of 1 prob and comb question combined. (If you get a second, one was likely an experimental.) If you can already handle the sub-700 questions, then you're good - don't worry about 700+ questions. Your goal for your weaknesses is for those weaknesses not to pull you down, and you're already there. Don't waste precious study time on the very small chance that you'll get one 700+ question in that category. :) (By the way, remember that giving up and cutting your losses on the very hardest quant questions means doing so at the latest by the 2m mark - and ideally faster.)
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- kean.allison
- Course Students
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:18 pm
Re: Where to focus - strengths or weaknesses? / Timing Issues
Stacy, thank you!
I should have said in my initial post that I am studying with the MGMAT timing benchmarks (and used them during the test). My problem arises when I start running out of time, so your advice on what to do in that situation was very helpful.
I think my biggest problem is realizing when I'm spending too much time, and then cutting out quickly enough. When I look at both my CAT5 and my CAT6, I can see that there were still 9 quant problems that I took more than 2.5 mins on (on each test). I just can't seem to let go (and when I get wrapped up in a problem, I tend not to notice the time until it's too late - I've been practicing with the stop watch as you suggested, and am still noticing that.) Ugh!
I have about a week til my test date, and I suppose I will continue to focus on timing until then. I guess the good news is that even with timing problems (literally still on every test that I've taken, if we define timing problems as you describe below), I'm still scoring exactly at 81st percentile in quant on every mgmat CAT that I take. Here's hoping...
Thanks again!
Allison
I should have said in my initial post that I am studying with the MGMAT timing benchmarks (and used them during the test). My problem arises when I start running out of time, so your advice on what to do in that situation was very helpful.
I think my biggest problem is realizing when I'm spending too much time, and then cutting out quickly enough. When I look at both my CAT5 and my CAT6, I can see that there were still 9 quant problems that I took more than 2.5 mins on (on each test). I just can't seem to let go (and when I get wrapped up in a problem, I tend not to notice the time until it's too late - I've been practicing with the stop watch as you suggested, and am still noticing that.) Ugh!
I have about a week til my test date, and I suppose I will continue to focus on timing until then. I guess the good news is that even with timing problems (literally still on every test that I've taken, if we define timing problems as you describe below), I'm still scoring exactly at 81st percentile in quant on every mgmat CAT that I take. Here's hoping...
Thanks again!
Allison
- kean.allison
- Course Students
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:18 pm
Re: Where to focus - strengths or weaknesses? / Timing Issues
Stacy,
I do have a follow up question for you -
I took a GMATPrep exam yesterday (my last practice exam), and because the math is so much easier than manhattan gmat, was actually ahead of my timing benchmarks for much of the test. This made me feel like I could slow down a bit and then I spent too much time on one hard problem and found myself somehow in the last 10 minutes with too many questions to go. SO -
-What should one do if ahead of the timing benchmarks? Just keep being methodical and keep the eye on the clock?
-If, in the last 10 minutes of the test, you get off and can see you don't have enough time to spend nearly 2 mins on each question, what's the best thing to do? Guess on every other question?
One other thing I noticed and was wondering about: the MGMAT timing benchmarks put you at 15 minutes remaining with 9 questions remaining on the quant. Prior to that we have 15 minutes for 7-8 questions. Is this intentional? It seems like it would make one rush at the end (especially if you're at the lower end of the 7-8 range at every split).
Thanks again!
I do have a follow up question for you -
I took a GMATPrep exam yesterday (my last practice exam), and because the math is so much easier than manhattan gmat, was actually ahead of my timing benchmarks for much of the test. This made me feel like I could slow down a bit and then I spent too much time on one hard problem and found myself somehow in the last 10 minutes with too many questions to go. SO -
-What should one do if ahead of the timing benchmarks? Just keep being methodical and keep the eye on the clock?
-If, in the last 10 minutes of the test, you get off and can see you don't have enough time to spend nearly 2 mins on each question, what's the best thing to do? Guess on every other question?
One other thing I noticed and was wondering about: the MGMAT timing benchmarks put you at 15 minutes remaining with 9 questions remaining on the quant. Prior to that we have 15 minutes for 7-8 questions. Is this intentional? It seems like it would make one rush at the end (especially if you're at the lower end of the 7-8 range at every split).
Thanks again!
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: Where to focus - strengths or weaknesses? / Timing Issues
Good questions.
If you notice you're "ahead" on time (that is, moving too quickly), first ask yourself, "by how much?" If you're only a couple of minutes ahead, don't do anything differently. If you're more than a couple of minutes ahead, you do want to change something, but that change is NOT going to be spending a lot of extra time on one problem. The reason you're ahead is probably that you're rushing a little bit too much on every problem you do. So what you want to do is tell yourself to be more methodical on every question - not spend extra time, just be methodical. Check your work. Write stuff down; don't do it in your head. Think through that last (verbal) wrong answer that you're eliminating before you pick the right answer. Etc.
If you notice you're "behind" on time (that is, moving too slowly), again the first question is "by how much?" If less than 2 minutes, you're fine. Keep doing what you're doing. If more than 2 minutes behind, again, you've got to change something. On the next very hard question you see (the kind where you start to read and think, "Ugh!"), make a random guess. Don't spend more than 30 seconds from the moment you start to read until the moment you click "next" and "confirm."
If it's a 2-min question, that saves you 1.5 minutes. If you need to save more, then on the next very hard question you see, do this again. But make sure you're choosing the questions - you want to choose to make these random guesses on problems that would be very hard for you to get right even if you did try to do them.
Make sure you're checking for this throughout, via your benchmarks. It's FAR better to have to make these random guesses halfway or two-thirds of the way through so that you can get back on track and finish strong.
I actually don't remember exactly what the official lab says for benchmarks! This is what I use for quant:
Q10: 55 min left
Q20: 35 min left
Q30: 15 min left
Because you only have a week left, I wouldn't switch to my counting method. You should adjust the benchmarks you've already been using based on the particular issue you're having (running out of time). Adjust it so that are putting more of the time pressure a little earlier and you have a full 2min per question for the last 15 min block.
If you notice you're "ahead" on time (that is, moving too quickly), first ask yourself, "by how much?" If you're only a couple of minutes ahead, don't do anything differently. If you're more than a couple of minutes ahead, you do want to change something, but that change is NOT going to be spending a lot of extra time on one problem. The reason you're ahead is probably that you're rushing a little bit too much on every problem you do. So what you want to do is tell yourself to be more methodical on every question - not spend extra time, just be methodical. Check your work. Write stuff down; don't do it in your head. Think through that last (verbal) wrong answer that you're eliminating before you pick the right answer. Etc.
If you notice you're "behind" on time (that is, moving too slowly), again the first question is "by how much?" If less than 2 minutes, you're fine. Keep doing what you're doing. If more than 2 minutes behind, again, you've got to change something. On the next very hard question you see (the kind where you start to read and think, "Ugh!"), make a random guess. Don't spend more than 30 seconds from the moment you start to read until the moment you click "next" and "confirm."
If it's a 2-min question, that saves you 1.5 minutes. If you need to save more, then on the next very hard question you see, do this again. But make sure you're choosing the questions - you want to choose to make these random guesses on problems that would be very hard for you to get right even if you did try to do them.
Make sure you're checking for this throughout, via your benchmarks. It's FAR better to have to make these random guesses halfway or two-thirds of the way through so that you can get back on track and finish strong.
I actually don't remember exactly what the official lab says for benchmarks! This is what I use for quant:
Q10: 55 min left
Q20: 35 min left
Q30: 15 min left
Because you only have a week left, I wouldn't switch to my counting method. You should adjust the benchmarks you've already been using based on the particular issue you're having (running out of time). Adjust it so that are putting more of the time pressure a little earlier and you have a full 2min per question for the last 15 min block.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- kean.allison
- Course Students
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:18 pm
Re: Where to focus - strengths or weaknesses? / Timing Issues
Thanks very very much, Stacey! The test is tomorrow, so I'll try to take this to heart quickly!
- kean.allison
- Course Students
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:18 pm
Re: Where to focus - strengths or weaknesses? / Timing Issues
Hey Stacey,
Took the test yesterday and just wanted to thank you for all your help. With all the studying I'd done, many of the problems on the math section looked familiar (and I could easily make connections to previous problems), and I was actually ahead of the timing benchmarks by 2 minutes up til about question 28. Then I got off by spending too long on one problem, then I kicked out the plug of the computer by accident (which nearly gave me a heart attack...the screen just went blank!). I had to guess on a couple questions at the end (spaced out a big though) because of the timing, but I still ended up with a 750, so no complaints here!
Thanks again!
Took the test yesterday and just wanted to thank you for all your help. With all the studying I'd done, many of the problems on the math section looked familiar (and I could easily make connections to previous problems), and I was actually ahead of the timing benchmarks by 2 minutes up til about question 28. Then I got off by spending too long on one problem, then I kicked out the plug of the computer by accident (which nearly gave me a heart attack...the screen just went blank!). I had to guess on a couple questions at the end (spaced out a big though) because of the timing, but I still ended up with a 750, so no complaints here!
Thanks again!
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: Where to focus - strengths or weaknesses? / Timing Issues
Oh, wow, you kicked out the plug? I'd have had a heart attack too! Good thing it didn't mess up the software - especially with that score. :)
Congratulations! That's really exciting news. Now... on to applications (it never seems to end, right?). Good luck with apps - let us know how it goes!
Congratulations! That's really exciting news. Now... on to applications (it never seems to end, right?). Good luck with apps - let us know how it goes!
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
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