Third times a charm ?!

[study_gmat]

I am looking for some advise on re-starting my gmat journey. So far I have taken the gmat two times but have not yet been able to get the score I am working towards. I have taken a break from studying since my last test ( about 9 months while I switched jobs and moved). Now I am looking to get back into studying but I am not sure where to start. I'm not sure if I could keep working on the same "buckets" of gmat issue areas I analyzed before my last official gmat

Is there a good resource to use for starting back on the gmat journey?

PS : I have used this forum before and it was an incredible help! I improved my score by 50 points between the two test.. Thanks for all the help so far!

[StaceyKoprince]

I'm glad you've found useful stuff here so far!

Let's see. Your weaknesses won't have gotten better, since you haven't been studying, but in 9 months it's possible that some of your strengths have gotten worse. So just using the data from 9 months ago won't give you a full picture.

So start by either taking a fresh CAT, or (if you are worried that you don't have a lot left), essentially "re-doing" the last one you took by just scrolling through all the screens and trying the questions again, keeping track of your work and answers as well as your per-question time.

If you do the latter, then compare your original performance to your new performance and adjust your buckets / plan accordingly. Basically, do the standard bucket analysis on your original performance, and then adjust based on seeing what you got right last time that you messed up this time (or spent too much time on, etc).

Next. You said that you did improve your score by 50 points before (yay!). You're looking for more though. How much more? If you just need another 20 to 40-ish points, then you can probably continue to do what you were doing before. If you're looking for a more substantial increase, then we need to talk about how you were studying before and see what we need to tweak the make your studying more effective. If that's the case, tell me what you changed to get yourself that +50 points last time and also just generally how you studied.

[study_gmat]

Thanks for your response. I will work on taking a new practice test next weekend. I have noticed a few free options on some of the test prep sites. I also have the old "bucket list" that you and I worked on forming for my past test prep (strategy-help-please-t30122.html) where the suggested areas to focus on were: Quant: Bucket 2: most important is exponents and roots - super common. Next inequalities and Verbal Bucket 2: most important: CR strengthen / weaken. SC modifiers, parallelism, subject verb. RC inference.

Yes I did increase by 50 points from 560 (Q:36 V:31) to 610 (Q:40 V:34). My target score is 700 - so it looks like I will need to tweak the way I am studying to be more effective. Most of my improvement between the two test came from working on my timing and deeper analysis of my work. For the first test I was doing more of a general study approach and not focused on particular topics. I took a lot of test and did A LOT of questions. The amount of time I spent studying between the two test was not different. Also, I think reaching out for help and using forms really helped me to focus on how to study better. Also, on my second time around I started doing more drills rather than test and analysis - I would do 20 min drills and about 1 hour analysis.

I would love to get your input on how to put together some structure to studying this time around. I don't have a test date yet. I am more focused on raising my score before I apply again.

Thanks!

[StaceyKoprince]

Thanks for linking that other conversation.

So, tell me. When you studied the second time, did you feel like you maxed out all of the things that we talked about? Or did you take the test even though you felt like you could've kept going with the (new) way you were studying and you could've improved / learned more?

If the former, then we need to figure out how to kick-start you again. But if the latter, then you just need to get back into it and see how far that new analysis / mindset / decision-making approach can get you. And, of course, we need to see what skills may have atrophied in the 9 months - the practice test will tell us that.

Also, you still have your books and everything? You can get an extension on your online resources. There's one free 6-month extension, if you haven't already used it. After that, there's a fee to extend. Give the office a call (800.576.GMAT) to see where your account stands.

Okay, take your test, analyze it, and tell me all about it here (just like last time). Also tell me the answer to my question up above. Then we can figure out the best path forward for you!

[study_gmat]

Hi Stacy,

So I recently took a Kaplan practice test to help gauge my studying needs. After taking the test I realized that the test analysis is not as in-depth as the Manhattan reports but I did my best to help bucket the test results:

Bucket #1 - right roughly within the expected timeframe (or faster)
- Algebra
- Geometry
- Properties of Sets

Bucket #2 - Careless mistakes; Efficiency.; Holes in foundation;
- Careless Mistakes:
- Efficiency (right but too long): Algebra, Properties of Sets
- Holes in Foundation: Hard to tell, the test has most of the questions listed as medium

Bucket 3: Ugh. Just get these wrong faster- usually miss these problems
- Proportions
- Algebra

Verbal
Bucket 1 - right roughly within the expected timeframe (or faster)
- Assumption
-Inference
- Reasoning

Bucket 2 - Careless mistakes; Efficiency.; Holes in foundation;

Bucket 3: Ugh. Just get these wrong faster- usually miss these problems
- Detail
- Global
- Usage

I have a very large timing issue particularly in the Quant section. I did not finish all of the questions and with verbal I finished too fast.

Do you know of any better way to get insight from the Kaplan test? I am not sure how to best use this data.

[StaceyKoprince]

I haven't seen the Kaplan score reports, no - so I don't know how to read them any better than you do!

Do they give you per-question timing data? If so, then you can do a lot of what you need to do, though you may not be able to do it exactly the way I say in my article.

Speaking of, you do know you have timing problems, so let's talk about that. I'm assuming (without looking at the old thread - it's late and I'm jet-lagged - I'm sorry!) that you were dealing with timing issues before, too. How was your 1-minute sense this time around? Is it still there and are you using it? Or has that skill atrophied?

As a reminder, see section 4 of this article:
http://tinyurl.com/GMATTimeManagement

And if you're struggling to cut yourself off on quant, here's a newer article that might help with the big picture decision-making:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -the-gmat/

Next, I wonder whether part of going too fast on verbal is due to mental fatigue. You're basically "over it" and just want the test to be done, so you speed up. If so, then fixing the earlier issues with quant (and maybe IR?) will help you to still have more mental energy by the time you get to the verbal section. Then you'll be better able to make yourself stick with it, be systematic, and get those points.

Okay, in terms of your buckets, I notice that you're mostly giving overall categories (eg, Alg, Geo). Is that because this is what the report gives you? Do they give you any data broken down by sub-categories within those overall categories? If so, just make sure you're drilling down, as it might be the case that you're really good at most parts of Algebra but one part needs more attention.

No careless mistakes at all? Really? Wow. That's amazing. (Or have you just not looked at the individual questions yet? That's one the test report obviously can't identify for you.

For holes in foundation, try looking at the individual questions to see whether you messed up anything that you know you knew how to do routinely when you were 12 to 16. If so, put that in "holes in foundation."

You have Algebra overall in all 3 buckets. Which is it? Each thing should only be able to go in one bucket. If Algebra can be broken down into sub-topics, then put those sub-topics in the relevant buckets. Ditto Properties of Sets - you have that in buckets 1 and 2.

For Verbal, you have everything in either bucket 1 or 3. That means you don't have anything to work on in bucket 2. If the score reports aren't useful enough, you may just have to look at the individual questions and evaluate based on how you feel about the problem. If you think, "Hey, I should have gotten that!" or "Oh, I get it now," then put it in bucket 2. If you think, "Nope, I still don't understand that, even after reading the explanation," then put it in bucket 3.

Also, I don't know Kaplan's verbal classifications, so it would help if you could also tell me the question type. For instance, is Global = RC? Such as a main idea question? And what is Usage? Sorry I can't help more on that part of things!

[study_gmat]

Yes, the test does give per question timing. My timing kills have atrophied, especially with quant. My biggest problem being cutting myself off on questions. I will continue reading over your articles and will start implementing the timing stratagies of when to let go of questions. Also, I did not do the gridded sheet approach of laying out all of the questions ahead (as taught in the MGMAT class). I think that helped me a lot last time.

Yes, with verbal there is defiantly a lot of mental fatigue. Hopefully the timing solution above will help with this.

Bucketing is challenging with the type of report I have from the Kaplan test. The only categories for Quant are: Algebra, Geometry, Number Properties, Properties of Sets and Proportions. That is why I have had to list topics in multiple buckets. Is there any other method that might help me categorize? I was thinking of pulling out my MGMAT books and looking into what section of the books the questions are listed in - I was having trouble narrowing down to the right category just off the top of my head. Do you think that is worth the time?

I have not re-worked each individual solution yet, I only glanced briefly over each question while trying to put it in the right bucket and also started to write down the questions in my error log. I didn't dig deeper because I felt as if the categories were so vague that analyzing the test further was not helping me organize my studying. I'm sure I have careless mistakes. I will give the test review a second go and keep an eye out for the careless mistake category.

If the score reports aren't useful enough, you may just have to look at the individual questions and evaluate based on how you feel about the problem

. I think this is a good idea. I will try that for both verbal and quant.

The Verbal section of the test analysis has a little more information than the quant: Critical Reasoning (Assumption, Evaluation, Explain, Flaw, Inference, Other, Strength, Weaken), Reading Comprehension ( Detail, Global, Inference, Reasoning, Strength), Sentence Correction ( Clauses, Comparisons, Modification, Parallelism, Pronouns, Usage, Verbs). I can clarify my list a little more in my next analysis.

Thanks for your input!

[StaceyKoprince]

I was thinking of pulling out my MGMAT books and looking into what section of the books the questions are listed in - I was having trouble narrowing down to the right category just off the top of my head. Do you think that is worth the time?

That's what I was thinking, yes. You need to know what to study. So you actually do need to go match the question types so that you know what to prioritize in the first place! It'll be worth the time. Most should fit fairly cleanly. Some might be harder to decide - that's okay if you can't get every last one classified.

I will give the test review a second go and keep an eye out for the careless mistake category.

This is hugely important. It's the easiest thing to improve because you already know how to do this problem! You just have to figure out how to minimize that type of error in future, and then make that thing a habit.

Okay, I'll wait to hear from you for more analysis!

[study_gmat]

Hi Stacey,

Here is the updated analysis. I've bucketed each question from the test and tired my best to match it to the right category of question.

Verbal
Bucket #1 - right roughly within the expected timeframe
CR - Assumption
CR - Assumption
CR - Assumption
CR - Assumption
CR - Assumption
CR - Paradox
CR - Paradox
CR - Point of argument
CR - Point of argument
Reading - Evaluation
Reading - Evaluation
Reading - Explicit Detail
Reading - Explicit Detail
Reading - Explicit Detail
Reading - Inference
Reading - Inference
Reading - Inference
Reading - Main Idea
SC - Comparisons
SC - Diction
SC - Modifiers
SC - Pronouns
SC - Subject/Verb
SC - Idiom

Bucket 2 - Careless mistakes; Efficiency.; Holes in foundation;
Careless (right method, wrong execution)

Efficiency (Right but too long)
Reading - Inference

Holes in Foundation (Wrong and easy question; right amount of time)
CR - Flaw in reasoning
CR - Paradox
CR - Strengthn
CR - Weaken
Reading - Explicit Detail
Reading - Explicit Detail
Reading - logical structure
Reading - Main idea
SC - Comparisons
SC - Dictation
SC - Parallelism
SC- Pronoun

Bucket 3: Ugh. Just get these wrong faster- (Wrong and too much time)
CR - Must be true

Wrong too quickly
SC - Diction
SC - Modifiers
SC - Subject - Verb agreement

Quant
Bucket #1 - right roughly within the expected timeframe
Alg Formulas
Alg Formulas
Algebra
Exponents
Geometry
Geometry
Number Propterites
Rate
Statistics
Statistics - Standard Deviation
Geometry - Triangles

Bucket #2: Carelss Mistakes; Efficiency; Holes in Fondation
Careless Mistakes (right method but wrong computation)
Linear Equation
Fraction
Powers
Quadratic Equation
Rate

Holes in Foundation (wrong in the given time)
Probability
Fraction
Fraction
Geometry - Coordinate
Geometry - Polygons
Geometry - Triangles
Linear Equation

Efficiency (right but too slowly)
Probability
Algebra - Arithmateic

Bucket 3: Ugh. Just get these wrong faster- usually miss these problems"

(wrong too slowly)
Statistics - WP (averages)
Powers
Rate

(wrong too quickly)
Geometry - Polygons
Number Properties
Roots

I think your article said to focus on bucket 2 topics to improve and then bucket 1 to learn how to doe faster. Would love to get your feedback!

[StaceyKoprince]

Bucket 2 is your priority, yes, and those problems include things like careless mistakes or problems that you know how to do but you're taking a bit too long.

Bucket 1 includes things that are already pretty good from both a content and timing perspective. The idea there is that, to lift your game, you basically have to turn things that are currently "medium for you" into "easy for you" questions. As you lift your score, that's basically what happens - you stop getting the currently-easy-for-you questions, and the currently-medium-for-you ones turn into the easier-end-for-you questions. So, yes, learning how to do those using less time and less brain energy = important.

Now summarize a little bit more. For example, all of your CR Assumptions showed up in bucket 1, so that whole sub-category is solidly bucket 1. Contrast that with RC Explicit Detail, which sometimes shows up in 1 and sometimes 2 (about 50-50), so this category can be classified in bucket 2.

You have three questions under bucket 3 that are labeled "wrong too quickly" - what are these? If you knew that you didn't know, then that's not "too" quickly, that's appropriately quickly. Those stay in bucket 3. "Too" quickly is reserved for, "I likely would have gotten this right if I hadn't gone too quickly." If you really could have gotten those by slowing down (but not slowing down too much!), then maybe they should be in bucket 2. (Ditto for quant.)

The biggest thing that's jumping out from verbal is the Holes in Foundation bucket 2 category. So now you know exactly where you need to focus. Have at it.

Contrast that with quant - there, you've got careless mistakes as well as holes in foundation. Working on those two areas is very different, so now you know what the issues actually are and how to move forward.

Figure out how to minimize careless mistakes:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -the-gmat/

And for the holes in foundation, go back to your books / lessons / study materials, then drill / practice!

[study_gmat]

Hi Stacy,

I have taken some time and reviewed the material we had last discussed, but it still fells a little all over the place and my studies are not as focused as I would have liked (or as much as I had been able to do the first time around). I think this might partially be due to there being so many topcus from my last analysis of the Kaplan test. Maybe you can help me focus in on a few topics (I have read over your last response but have a little difficulty understanding exactly the topics you were pointing to) ?

To review, from my last analysis the topics I should re-read and do questions on are:

Quant:
- FDP Guide (all)
- Geometry (not sure which sections - all?)

Verbal
- RC Explicit Detail
- SC (not sure which sections to go over)

Also, I am thinking of re-doing one of my last MGMAT test as you suggested in your last post, so I can compare with the last score I got. Even though it will not be adaptive, I assume the analysis will still be helpful. I also have a few Kaplan test left, but I find the analysis of those test a bit difficult.

Thanks again for your input and working through this with me.

[StaceyKoprince]

Sorry - I meant that you needed to summarize a bit from your last list (vs. listing every single question separately).

For example, you listed "CR Paradox" twice under bucket 1 and once under bucket 2. You're not trying to classify each individual problem. You're trying to classify that whole question type. So maybe this one falls mostly under bucket 1, though you have to watch out for mistakes. What do you think?

Another example: you listed CR Assumption 5 times under bucket 1 and nowhere in the other buckets. So this category definitely falls under bucket 1.

On the verbal side, your bucket 2 mostly consisted of things you labeled Holes in your Foundation. The next step there is to dig in and figure out why you missed lower-level questions in these areas. Did you not know a grammar rule? Or not know how to apply it in the given circumstance? For RC, were you looking at the wrong detail? Did you misread / misinterpret something? Etc.

On the quant side, for anything labeled a careless mistake, your task is to figure out what new habit you need to implement (and possibly what old, bad habit you need to break) in order to minimize the chances of making that same type of careless mistake in future. More on this here:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -the-gmat/

For the things you labeled Hole in your Foundation, you need to go back and study / practice whatever it was that you didn't know for those problems. For instance, you listed two Fraction problems. What was it that you didn't know how to do or didn't know how to do well enough? Was it computational? (eg, finding common denominators) Was it tactical? (eg, using smart numbers vs. doing algebra) etc. What skills fell short on those problems and what can you do to improve those specific skills?

In other words, use what you missed to drive your review / practice. Really specifically, what rules or facts or techniques or knowledge would you have needed to get that question right? And what resources do you have that teach you those things or that allow you to practice those things? Go review them.

So, when you say that you're not sure what to review for SC: go back to the bucket 2 questions that you listed. See what you missed (use the explanation to help you understand what you missed). Then review those topics in your source material. For example, if you missed something to do with parallelism, go back to your parallelism chapter (or however you studied parallelism in the first place).

Re-doing a CAT (literally just re-doing the problems you got last time) can be good practice, but just note that there's no way to use that to know what kind of new score you could get. For one thing, you've seen the questions before, so you're "biased." And, if you do get questions right that you got wrong before, then a real test would adapt to that and give you harder questions - obviously this static re-do wouldn't. But if you're just using it as practice, that's still useful. (Do time yourself! That's important too. And if you completely remember a given question, don't just answer immediately and move on. Try it again. Make sure you know how to replicate the work / thinking needed. And make yourself take whatever the "average" time is for that question type so that you aren't giving yourself an artificial time advantage for the rest of the questions.)