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RonPurewal
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th

by RonPurewal Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:15 am

purduesr Wrote:
once you've looked at that:
stimulation is a point event. for the same reasons mentioned in that post, "has stimulated" actually signifies a past event (perhaps from the very recent past, but from the past nonetheless).



Ron, to your point, HAVE BEEN REDIRECTED is not a single point event because 'BEEN' signifies progress, right? Could you please confirm my reasoning?


nope.
the presence of "been VERBed" means that you're dealing with the passive voice instead of the active voice, but it has nothing to do with "progress".

if you're looking for an indicator of "progress", you would look for "has/have been verbING". it's the ING, not the "been", that signifies a progressive construction.
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by zhaoyu0319 Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:00 am

I have a question regarding choice E). MGMT SC guide says that the tense of "V-ing" form is determined by the main verb tense of the sentence. In E), the main verb, "have", indicates the present perfect. Apparently, "flowing" cannot take the present perfect tense since the word "originally" tells us the these two rivers have stopped flowing into the St. Lawrence. Is there anything wrong with my reasoning?
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by RonPurewal Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:10 am

zhaoyu0319 Wrote:I have a question regarding choice E). MGMT SC guide says that the tense of "V-ing" form is determined by the main verb tense of the sentence. In E), the main verb, "have", indicates the present perfect. Apparently, "flowing" cannot take the present perfect tense since the word "originally" tells us the these two rivers have stopped flowing into the St. Lawrence. Is there anything wrong with my reasoning?


you know, i'm on your side on this one -- i think this is a pretty careless use of -ING. it would be much more appropriate to write "which originally flowed".
as far as i know, this is the only such questionable use of this modifier. do you know of others?
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th

by xingym Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:59 am

RonPurewal Wrote:
purduesr Wrote:
once you've looked at that:
stimulation is a point event. for the same reasons mentioned in that post, "has stimulated" actually signifies a past event (perhaps from the very recent past, but from the past nonetheless).



Ron, to your point, HAVE BEEN REDIRECTED is not a single point event because 'BEEN' signifies progress, right? Could you please confirm my reasoning?


nope.
the presence of "been VERBed" means that you're dealing with the passive voice instead of the active voice, but it has nothing to do with "progress".

if you're looking for an indicator of "progress", you would look for "has/have been verbING". it's the ING, not the "been", that signifies a progressive construction.


hi Ron

sorry that I am still confused with this part

the action " flow" took place before the action " have been redirected" , so the verb tense " had orginally flowed" should be correct.
is the action " have been redirected" not an " one point" event?

thanks
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th

by RonPurewal Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:06 am

xingym Wrote:the action " flow" took place before the action " have been redirected" , so the verb tense " had orginally flowed" should be correct.
is the action " have been redirected" not an " one point" event?

thanks


these 2 actions are in independent sequence -- neither one affects the other -- so they should both be in the simple past.
for instance:
we went to the bar after we worked out --> there is no ostensible connection between these two activities -- they are just a random sequence of events -- so the simple past is appropriate for both.
james arrived after i had already left --> there's a connection here. the point is that my absence -- the fact that i had already left -- impacted the situation in which james found himself when he arrived. to show that kind of relationship, you use the past perfect.

two things:

1)
for more on perfect tenses, read here:
post58397.html#p58397

2)
MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY
VERB TENSE IS A VERY, VERY LOW-PRIORITY TOPIC.
verb tenses are very difficult for non-native speakers (of any language, not just english) to learn -- much more difficult than just about any other aspect of the language.
fortunately, for this reason, verb tense is almost never tested by itself; there will virtually always be other ways in which to eliminate choices with differing verb tenses.
in general, you should not dedicate yourself to studying verb tenses until you can honestly say that you are 100 percent perfect at finding all of the more important error types (parallelism, pronouns, subject-verb agreement, etc.).
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th

by vivi____he Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:55 am

RonPurewal Wrote:
Sputnik Wrote:B. Rivers had originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but they have been redirected by constructing
...
whats wrong with B..



there are two things wrong with (b).

one:
the use of the past perfect (had flowed) is inappropriate, because there is no second past-time marker or event to which this first event is relevant.
compare: the rivers had originally flowed into the st. lawrence, but then their course was diverted by...
the correct tense to use here would be the simple past, because this is the only past time frame referenced in the whole sentence.

two:
'by constructing' seems to refer back to the rivers as its ostensible subject, implying (absurdly) that the rivers themselves constructed the canals.


I have an example here:(a correct sentence from PREP)
"Ozone, a special form of oxygen that screens out harmful UV rays, reaches high concentrations twelve miles above Earth, where it had long appeared immune to human influence; we have now realized, though, that emissions of industrial chloroflorocarbons deplete the ozone layer."

in this sentence,we need a past perfect tense to make a contrast with "have now realized".Then why is this usage proper while the past perfect tense is not allowed in choice B?

i'm confused...

wait for your reply.
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th

by RonPurewal Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:35 am

vivi____he Wrote:in this sentence,we need a past perfect tense to make a contrast with "have now realized".Then why is this usage proper while the past perfect tense is not allowed in choice B?

i'm confused...

wait for your reply.


read this post on perfect tenses:
post58397.html#p58397

the past perfect tense is good here because it emphasizes the fact that people don't believe this idea anymore. (in fact, according to the sentence, we now know that exactly the opposite is true.)

by contrast, in the st. lawrence river sentence, there is no reason to use the past perfect, as there is no emphasis on the completion or ending of that state.

--

also -- don't forget -- verb tense is a very low priority.
if you can already identify the following error types 100% OF THE TIME --
parallelism
pronouns
modifier placement
subject-verb agreement
-- only then should you undergo any sort of systematic study of verb tenses, and, even then, verb tenses still won't be needed to resolve very many (if any) problems.
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by shah.abhilash Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:21 am

ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 6659
zhaoyu0319 wrote:
I have a question regarding choice E). MGMT SC guide says that the tense of "V-ing" form is determined by the main verb tense of the sentence. In E), the main verb, "have", indicates the present perfect. Apparently, "flowing" cannot take the present perfect tense since the word "originally" tells us the these two rivers have stopped flowing into the St. Lawrence. Is there anything wrong with my reasoning?


you know, i'm on your side on this one -- i think this is a pretty careless use of -ING. it would be much more appropriate to write "which originally flowed".
as far as i know, this is the only such questionable use of this modifier. do you know of others?

Hi Ron,

I think the presence of the word "flowing" is of little significance here because its a part of a non-essential modifier for option E. you remove that extra info and the sentence still is correct. what say???
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by RonPurewal Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:44 am

shah.abhilash Wrote:Hi Ron,

I think the presence of the word "flowing" is of little significance here because its a part of a non-essential modifier for option E. you remove that extra info and the sentence still is correct. what say???


perhaps i'm not interpreting your comment correctly, but you seem to be implying that nothing written in a non-essential modifier could ever have any significance. if you pursue this line of reasoning further, it seems that you are concluding that you can basically just ignore all non-essential modifiers that you ever see.

if that is what you are actually saying, it's not true; non-essential modifiers, if used incorrectly, can invalidate the structure of a sentence just as much as essential ones can.
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by kuldeep_rojans Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:11 am

RonPurewal Wrote:
sanjaylakhani Wrote:can somebody explain what's wrong with C


(c) isn't even a sentence. it's a really, really, really long sentence fragment.

the part in, and following, "which" is all one huge modifier:
which originally flowed ... but have been redirected...

there's no main verb.

if you don't see what i'm talking about, email back and i'll explain in further detail.


Modifier in middle of sentence should be with two commas or with out commas(stated by you).
I wanna know more about what specific you are talking about?
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by thanghnvn Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:54 am

Manhantan experts,

"they" in B is redundant. E is more consise. Is this thing right?
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by RonPurewal Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:34 pm

thanghnvn Wrote:Manhantan experts,

"they" in B is redundant. E is more consise. Is this thing right?


in general, it's wise to avoid repeating a subject in a parallel structure. (in other words, "X did this and did that" is usually considered superior to "X did this and X did that", if the X's are in fact the same subject.)

i don't think this is necessarily a hard rule, though. in particular, if the verb phrases are really long, then the extra subject may help to orient the reader.
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by arindam.gupta1 Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:26 am

Ron,

Could you pls explain that in choice B how does it indicate that Rivers are constructing the canals themselves because of ' by constructing' as ' but they have been' indicates passive voice, which I understand is to show that it is done by a third person but not rivers.

Pls clarify.
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by RonPurewal Mon May 07, 2012 3:44 am

arindam.gupta1 Wrote:Ron,

Could you pls explain that in choice B how does it indicate that Rivers are constructing the canals themselves because of ' by constructing' as ' but they have been' indicates passive voice, which I understand is to show that it is done by a third person but not rivers.

Pls clarify.


the verb voice has no effect on the meaning of "by + VERBing".

here's an easier example:
i was injured by walking in front of a bus.
--> even though "was injured" is a passive-voice construction, "by walking" still refers to something that i did.
this analogy should show you why choice (b) is problematic.
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Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the

by gmatalongthewatchtower Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:22 am

Ron,

I noticed that the correct answer has omitted "but." I am not questioning the OA. I am not able to understand why the omission of "but" makes sense, especially from the meaning perspective.

Wouldn't be okay to say:

The river Nile originally flowed the Western border of Congo, but because of the construction of canals, the river has changed its direction to flow through the South Western border of Congo. <side note - it's a random sentence.>

Thoughts?

Thanks