The Acoma and Hopi are probably the two

[RonPurewal]

Hi, Ron

Just as mentioned before, in the choice B, "which" is too far from "the Acoma and Hopi", so it is inferior. But why the correct answer is right? I also think "both" is too far from "the Acoma and Hopi". Besides this, I am thinking whether such structure is called "absolute phrase"?

Thank you!

you're focusing on the wrong word.
"both" is incidental; it's just an adverb.

what actually counts here is the difference between the modifiers themselves:
• one is a "which" modifier (which is committed to describing a noun right in front of it)
• one is "comma + __ing"

the addition of "both"/"each" doesn't change either structure. (e.g., "each dating..." would also be correct, and "both of which date..." would also be incorrect.)

[thanghnvn]

The Acoma and Hopi are probably the two oldest surviving Pueblo communities, both dating back at least a thousand years.
A. both dating
B. both of which have dated
C. and each has dated
D. and each one dating
E. each one of which date
from prep
OA is A

can you tell me "both" vs."each" as a split ?
please explain why each choice is correct / incorrect

Ron, pls, help with this point

pls, look at choice A and B. suppose B is writen like
"both of which date"

and choice B has correct tense. But B is still wrong because in choice B, the relation between "A and H are..." and " both of which date..." is the relation between a noun and a an adjective while in choice A, the relation between "A and H are..." and "both of which date..." is the relation between a verb and adverb

in short, choice B changes the adverb relation into adjective relation and is wrong, an causal relation into a attributive relation.

the problem for me, especially when I am in the test room, is that I find it hard to reaslize which relation is correct while both relations is in grammatical structure.

Ron, do you have any skill at solving this problem?

[thanghnvn]

The Acoma and Hopi are probably the two oldest surviving Pueblo communities, both dating back at least a thousand years.
A. both dating
B. both of which have dated
C. and each has dated
D. and each one dating
E. each one of which date
from prep
OA is A

can you tell me "both" vs."each" as a split ?
please explain why each choice is correct / incorrect

as Ron said, "date" with the meaning "have existed since..." (look at oxford dictionary) takes only present tense.

"have dated"+period in choice B and C show an action happening in the past until present is grammatical. But it is not logic becaue something can not "have existed since..." at present.

[yaoL613]

hi experts,
i know as you always says that don't question the official answer,
but i wonder why the "dating“ in A is correct.
since the "Acoma and Hopi" are the objects that be dated(receive an action), not the subjects who do the action.
we will use dating to modify an person who do reserch to figure out the exact date.
so, we can not use dating to modify "Acoma and Hopi" that receive the action of date.
thanks in advance!

[RonPurewal]

hi experts,
i know as you always says that don't question the official answer,
but i wonder why the "dating“ in A is correct.
since the "Acoma and Hopi" are the objects that be dated(receive an action), not the subjects who do the action.
we will use dating to modify an person who do reserch to figure out the exact date.
so, we can not use dating to modify "Acoma and Hopi" that receive the action of date.
thanks in advance!

^^ the red thing ... you know what you're doing there, right? you're saying that the correct answer is wrong.

as you said yourself, just beforehand... don't do that.

--

[RonPurewal]

"date" can have either of those meanings.

this pottery dates to the second century B.C.
(same type of usage as the sentence at hand)
––> this is a statement of the actual age of the pottery, not anyone's estimate of that age.

it's also possible to write "experts have dated this pottery...", if that's the intended meaning.

[yaoL613]

"date" can have either of those meanings.

this pottery dates to the second century B.C.
(same type of usage as the sentence at hand)
––> this is a statement of the actual age of the pottery, not anyone's estimate of that age.

it's also possible to write "experts have dated this pottery...", if that's the intended meaning.

i get it!
thanks a lot!
by the way,i am really excited about your reply!

[douyang]

Type 2/
If it's an ongoing state verb, then "has/have VERBed" without an explicit time period means ...
... it's happened before,
... it's not happening now.

E.g.,
I have lived in Florida.
This implies that I no longer live in Florida. If I still live there now, I'll write I live in Florida.

----- BUT -----

If, for this kind of verb, "has/have VERBed" is used with a time duration, then ...
... it has happened for that duration up to now;
... it may still be happening, or it may just have ended.

E.g.,
I have lived in Florida for twenty years. (written in 2014)
This means I've lived in Florida for the last twenty years (= 1994-2014).
I might still live there.
I may be moving right now.

Hi Ron,

So for sentence like "The rule has never been applied in Los Angles", we should think it as an ongoing state without an explicit time period. So basically, it means:

it's happened before ---> the rule was not applied before in LA
it's not happening now ---> the rule IS APPLYING NOW in LA (does not make sense...)

I'm confused because it should mean the rule was not applied in LA before, and it still not applying in LA now. Can you please advise?

[RonPurewal]

if you have "has/have NOT ___ed", then there are 2 possibilities:

1/
this hasn't happened, and it's still not happening;

2/
this hasn't happened, but now it's happening (the case you made up here).

these 2 usages correspond to the 2 usual possibilities for "ongoing up to now".


e.g.,
I haven't seen Tom in over 10 years.
––> ... and maybe i still don't know where he is / don't see him
––> ... or maybe i'm seeing him now, for the first time in over 10 years.


if there's no timeframe, generally we're only talking about #1.
e.g.,
I've never seen the Northern Lights.
––> (and i still can't see them now)
if i can see them now for the first time, i'll add something like ...before to the end of the sentence.

[RonPurewal]

needless to say, we are now far, far beyond any distinction that would ever be tested on this exam.

[CrystalSpringston]

Hi Ron,
May I know the difference between date back and date at?

The Manhattan SC 6th only gives the usage of data at:
The artifact was dated at three centuries old.

Thank you!

[RonPurewal]

well, there you have one example of each. they are very, very different.

so:

• what's your understanding of them?

• can you make your own examples, one for each of the two constructions?
(ultimately, this is the only thing that matters. if you can recognize these things and make analogies, then it makes no difference whether you can 'explain' them.)

[CrystalSpringston]

well, there you have one example of each. they are very, very different.

so:

• what's your understanding of them?

• can you make your own examples, one for each of the two constructions?
(ultimately, this is the only thing that matters. if you can recognize these things and make analogies, then it makes no difference whether you can 'explain' them.)

Date back:
The Summer Palace dates back to 18th century
—— it was built in 18th century

The Summer palace is dated at 300 years.
——its age is 300 years.

Just always confused by the meaning as well as the structures of them(passive/active voice)
Pls correct me if I made mistakes.
Thank you.

[RonPurewal]

Date back:
The Summer Palace dates back to 18th century
—— it was built in 18th century

correct. 'dates (back)' means, essentially, 'is ___ years old' (or ___ centuries old, or whatever other time unit).

The Summer palace is dated at 300 years.
——its age is 300 years.

here the usage is more specific.

'has been dated' means that some person (presumably an expert) has estimated the age of something.



Just always confused by the meaning as well as the structures of them(passive/active voice)
Pls correct me if I made mistakes.
Thank you.[/quote]

[RonPurewal]

The Summer palace is dated at 300 years.
——its age is 300 years.

here the usage is more specific.

'has been dated' means that some person (presumably an expert) has estimated the age of something.

also, with this meaning ^^ you should note that the present tense doesn't (and can't) work.

'has been dated at' is a point action. (people made an estimate at one specific point in time.)
• it can't be 'ongoing'.
• it can't be 'true in general', either (since it is one person's estimate).

so, 'is dated at' won't work.

see here:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... ml#p100119