The 32 species that make up the dolphin family

[RonPurewal]

Since both of those modifiers describe the same animal, it's not impossible to put them in parallel.

"Growing" describes a process that happens over a particular time interval, though, while "famous" is a general fact. ("Growing" would have to be attached to a sentence occurring in the same timeframe; in that context, "famous" wouldn't make sense as the other parallel element.)
So, these particular modifiers probably can't be used in parallel. But, two modifiers with these forms, sure.

[GeetanshB252]

The principal feature of the redesigned checks is a series of printed instructions that the company hopes will help merchants confirm a check's authenticity, which includes reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view the watermark while holding the check to the light.

which includes reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view

which include reminders for watching the endorsement, to compare signatures and view

by including reminders for watching the endorsement, comparing signatures, and viewing

including reminders to watch the endorsement, comparing signatures and viewing

including reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view

Hi Ron, in the above scenario, whats the difference between "including" and "Which includes" after the comma.

Both talks about the authenticity including .....

Please help, this has been a recurring doubt

[GeetanshB252]

Hi Ron,

can be have "as big as 30 feet long" or "as big as 30 feet wide" depicting two different versions.

Regards
Geetansh

[RonPurewal]

Hi Ron, in the above scenario, whats the difference between "including" and "Which includes" after the comma.

Both talks about the authenticity including .....

you're not thinking enough about what the sentence is actually supposed to say.
remember, step 1 of ANY sentence correction problem = read as though you were reading a book or magazine.
DO NOT think about grammar at this point. save that for when you're looking at splits in the choices.

if you read this sentence as though it were in a magazine, it should be clear that the reminders form a portion of "a series of printed instructions".
"which" can't refer to a noun that's so far away.
"including", on the other hand, is perfectly well allowed to refer to that entire phrase ("a series of printed instructions that the company hopes will help merchants confirm a check's authenticity").

[RonPurewal]

Hi Ron,

can be have "as big as 30 feet long" or "as big as 30 feet wide" depicting two different versions.

Regards
Geetansh

the presence of both "big" and "long", or of both "big" and "wide", still creates redundancy.

"up to 30 feet long" and "up to 30 feet wide" are not redundant.

[singh.anju29]

Hi saiindukuri87,
'Including' here modifying the entire clause as these are the existing instructions to confirm check's authenticity.It is just an extra information.

Correct ans. is 'D'

Please correct if I am wrong.

Thanks!

[RonPurewal]

Hi saiindukuri87,
'Including' here modifying the entire clause as these are the existing instructions to confirm check's authenticity.It is just an extra information.

Correct ans. is 'D'

Please correct if I am wrong.

Thanks!

to what, exactly, is this a reply?

[singh.anju29]

Hi saiindukuri87,
'Including' here modifying the entire clause as these are the existing instructions to confirm check's authenticity.It is just an extra information.

Correct ans. is 'D'

Please correct if I am wrong.

Thanks!

to what, exactly, is this a reply?

saiindukuri87
Post subject: Re: The 32 species that make up the dolphin family Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:07 pm
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Posts: 18
The principal feature of the redesigned checks is a series of printed instructions that the company hopes will help merchants confirm a check's authenticity, which includes reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view the watermark while holding the check to the light.

which includes reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view

which include reminders for watching the endorsement, to compare signatures and view

by including reminders for watching the endorsement, comparing signatures, and viewing

including reminders to watch the endorsement, comparing signatures and viewing

including reminders to watch the endorsement, compare signatures, and view

Hi Ron,sorry, I did not get your point. What does include describe here. I thought it was 'Principal feature'. If it is describing 'Principal Feature' it is working as any other comma+ing modifier by modifying the subject of the sentence preceding the comma. Do you mean comma+including modifies immediate word before the comma like 'which' and 'that'. Request your clarification.

[RonPurewal]

"including" does not follow the rules for __ing modifiers.

see here:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... ml#p102407

[RonPurewal]

the above is a non-issue in the problem to which this thread is dedicated. in the problem at hand in this thread, we have "include"/"includes", but not "including".

if there are further questions about this other problem—especially questions about an issue that's not even pertinent to the original problem in this thread—please search the forum for a thread on THAT problem, and feel free to start one if you don't find one. thanks.

[sukriti.bahl]

Hi Ron,

You have mentioned a bit about when "and it" would be correct and how it is not in this question ( though I realise that apart from "and it", the sentence contains other errors) but it would be great if you could please give a couple of more examples where "and it" would be correct and explamples where it wouldn't.

Thanks.

[RonPurewal]

'and it' is not a single construction, so that question has no meaningful answer.

in the problem at hand, this is just basic parallelism: you can't put 'which xxxx' (a modifier) in parallel with 'it xxxxx' (a complete sentence).

[eveH982]

Since both of those modifiers describe the same animal, it's not impossible to put them in parallel.

"Growing" describes a process that happens over a particular time interval, though, while "famous" is a general fact. ("Growing" would have to be attached to a sentence occurring in the same timeframe; in that context, "famous" wouldn't make sense as the other parallel element.)
So, these particular modifiers probably can't be used in parallel. But, two modifiers with these forms, sure.

hi ron.

i still have no idea why when "growing" attaches to a sentence occurring in the same timeframe, another adjective cannot be parallel with "growing". is that because they don't happen in the same timeframe so they cannot be parallel? one happens over a particular time interval while the other is a general fact that happens all the time?


in manhattan SC 6th (i mean the instruction book) , it says that

adjectives can be paralleled to present or past participles, if both the adjective and the participles modify the same noun.
E.g.: Only a few feet wide BUT spanning a continent, the railroad changed history.

because the tense of "Verb-ing" must and always attach to the tense of the main clause, how can a "Verb-ing" form and an adjective ever be parallel with each other?

AND

is there any difference between the underline part in the sentence(a few feed wide... spanning) and the "growing...famous" issue in choice b ?


thanks!

[RonPurewal]

one happens over a particular time interval while the other is a general fact that happens all the time?

^^ that, yes.

is there any difference between the underline part in the sentence(a few feed wide... spanning) and the "growing...famous" issue in choice b ?

you need to think about these in context. one of them describes an actual ACTION that HAPPENS IN A TIMEFRAME; the other is just a DESCRIPTION.

for instance, if i can describe something as "horizontal", then i can also describe it as "lying sideways".
here, "lying" is clearly NOT an action that happens in a specific timeframe; it's just a description. it's interchangeable with the adjective "horizontal".
"spanning" is the same sort of thing. it isn't an action -- it just describes the length of something.

"growing", on the other hand, is actually an action, so, there's no adjective that could possibly replace it.

[RichaChampion]

only (a) remains. there are other issues, too; for instance, the "and" at the end of (b) introduces false parallelism, "being" in (c) is problematic, and "it" in (e) violates parallelism. post back if you don't understand any of these.

Sir,

Please check if my understanding is correct.

"it" introduces an IC, but and can't connect IC without comma and this structure is missing : " , and"
Thats why structurally it is wrong, Right sir?

*IC stands for independent clause.

Ron sir I didnt get this point. in some other post you said:

Important:
"INCLUDING" is an EXCEPTION to the otherwise robust rules for comma+ing modifiers.

When you see "comma + including", you should think of "including" as a preposition, not as an -ing modifier. Therefore, "including X" will become a prepositional phrase that describes the stuff preceding the comma.
Thanks for pointing this out / calling it to our attention -- we'll be sure to include it in our revised unit on modifiers in the course. 

but this seems to be deviating here.