Hi,
I have taken 6 tests till date & my scores are as follows:
Princeton 1 - 649 ( Q- 41, V- 38)
Princeton 2 - 669 ( Q- 48, V- 32)
Gmatprep 1 - 610 ( Q- 42, V- 32)
Score 800 Test 1 - 650 ( Q- 38, V- 40)
Score 800 Test 2 - 640 ( Q- 46, V- 30)
Manhattan CAT 1 - 620 (Q- 43, V - 32)
Had taken all test with AWA & didnt really feel any fatigue during the test period...
Before taking these tests I had completed OG 11th Edition, OG verbal review, Princeton & manhanttan SC guide. I have spent 2-3 months doing this.
I dont see any improvement in my scores...they seem to hit a steady state....though I think I have improved on timing as i used to run of out time in all my 1st 4 tests. In the last two tests I tried to read ur timing tips & tried to put them into practice.
I also maintain an error log of all question (Tests + other practice material)...n keep going back to it to re-check that ones in a while.
I also spent enough time reviewing each of my tests...I dont seem to get a common trend there...I think i have improved on SC & CR...but I still get 5-6 question wrong on the test.RC has been my weak area...i try to focus on that in my tests & the read passages carefully. My quant is just about OK....tend to do silly mistakes...like missing out some info from the questions...on timed practice tests I seem to do just ok...
I am confused where to focus now & how to improve on my score...I need to score 700+...my test in in 4th Nov (~11 weeks to go)...pl help with your advise...
I orders all Manhantann study guides today alongwith 6 CAT & the question bank...thought of starting afresh with that...
Would be grateful if you could advise what strategy should I follow to reach my target score...I seem to be missing sometime....
Thanking you in anticipation!!
GMAT Forum
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- preeti2776
- Course Students
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:24 am
- RonPurewal
- Students
- Posts: 19744
- Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:23 am
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
hi - a couple of things to think about.
first thing:
when you say "completed", what do you mean by that?
if "completed" just means that you did the problems and then checked the reasons why you got them right or wrong, then that's not enough. you need to make sure that you derive lessons that will be applicable to other problems (what we sometimes call "takeaways").
in other word, you should be able to fill in the following sentence, in some way, based on EVERY problem you do:
"IF I SEE _________ ON ANOTHER PROBLEM, I SHOULD __________"
the "on another problem" part is key. when you study problems, you have to generalize your lessons enough so that they might potentially apply to other problems that you'll see on test day. if you merely stick to why you got particular problems right/wrong, then that won't be particularly valuable (because you're not going to see those exact problems again on test day).
how have you felt about time management?
one way to practice time management is to recognize "THROWAWAY PROBLEMS".
by this we mean problem areas on which your performance is the absolute WORST (i.e., you get a lot of them wrong, and/or you take way too much time).
if time management is an issue, you can sacrifice problems in these areas, so that you have enough time to work on problems in areas in which you're stronger.
this is good.
again, though, make sure that you get TAKEAWAYS from those problems. always learn something that will apply to OTHER problems as well - some sort of generalizable rule.
pretty much the only exception here is idioms (in sentence correction). idioms are always specific and unique, and can't be generalized to similar expressions. therefore, you have to learn those one at a time.
all other rules, though, you should try to generalize as much as possible so that they can apply to other problems.
same comments on reviewing here as on the OG problems.
are you getting general lessons / takeaways?
are you learning things that will apply to OTHER problems?
the most common study mistake i've seen from students is to focus only on specific problems. make sure that you always think in terms of learning things that you can apply to future problems.
is that 5-6 wrong in each of those areas, or is that a total?
if that's a total, then you're actually doing a great job. if those are individual numbers, then yes, you could improve.
hmm. i'd be careful about "reading passages carefully". in fact, you don't want to READ passages too "carefully", as that's just a waste of time.
when you read a passage, you should focus ONLY on the following things:
* what's the main point?
* what is the author trying to accomplish or convey? (this is almost the same as the last question, but not quite)
* HOW is the author trying to convey this point / message?
* what is the general structure of the passage? (i.e., is it a general passage followed by a specific example? is it a point / counterpoint? is it a timeline? etc)
these are the only things for which you should read.
if you "read the whole passage carefully", you're actually wasting a ton of time.
what you SHOULD read, EXTREMELY carefully, is the QUESTIONS (and then the specific PORTIONS of the passage that pertain to them). that is when you have to read in extreme, meticulous detail.
also, make sure you know that you can't read passages like a "normal person" would. you have to read more like a robot - NEVER assume ANYTHING that is not a 100% direct consequence of the literal words in the passage.
if you're missing information, this is easy to fix: just WRITE OUT the information from the problem as you read it (preferably in some sort of abbreviated notation).
if you're making silly mistakes in arithmetic or algebra, then MAKE FLASH CARDS from EACH MISTAKE that you make. for instance, if you see (x^2)^3 and mistakenly think that's x^5, then make a flash card that says (x^2)^3 on the front and x^6 (the correct answer) on the back.
this is tedious and annoying, but, if you do it, you'll accumulate a deck of flash cards that consists entirely of mistakes that you personally made. that is just about the single most valuable thing that you can have on this test.
on what is this based? has a school told you that you actually need this score?
if not, you may want to set 690 as a goal score, rather than 700.
i'm totally serious about this. as humans we have an irrational attachment to "round" numbers (such as 700), so that goal score will impose extreme psychological stress.
here's what i mean:
if your goal score is 700, and you score 680 or 690, you'll probably be sorely disappointed.
on the other hand, if your goal score is 690 and you score 670 or 680, you'll see that as a very positive result.
this is weird, but it's universal. (in the same vein, studies have shown that consumers perceive a price drop from $2.00 to $1.85 as more significant than a price drop from $1.85 to $1.65, even though the latter is a bigger price drop.)
on the other hand, if a school has actually told you that you need a 700, then, well, you need a 700.
ok.
by the way, you said that you bought the MGMAT SC guide. if this is so, then that guide already came with access to the CAT exams (this is the case for the purchase of any of our strategy guides).
but yes, this should be a good place to start the next phase of your studying.
good luck!
preeti2776 Wrote:Before taking these tests I had completed OG 11th Edition, OG verbal review, Princeton & manhanttan SC guide. I have spent 2-3 months doing this.
first thing:
when you say "completed", what do you mean by that?
if "completed" just means that you did the problems and then checked the reasons why you got them right or wrong, then that's not enough. you need to make sure that you derive lessons that will be applicable to other problems (what we sometimes call "takeaways").
in other word, you should be able to fill in the following sentence, in some way, based on EVERY problem you do:
"IF I SEE _________ ON ANOTHER PROBLEM, I SHOULD __________"
the "on another problem" part is key. when you study problems, you have to generalize your lessons enough so that they might potentially apply to other problems that you'll see on test day. if you merely stick to why you got particular problems right/wrong, then that won't be particularly valuable (because you're not going to see those exact problems again on test day).
I dont see any improvement in my scores...they seem to hit a steady state....though I think I have improved on timing as i used to run of out time in all my 1st 4 tests. In the last two tests I tried to read ur timing tips & tried to put them into practice.
how have you felt about time management?
one way to practice time management is to recognize "THROWAWAY PROBLEMS".
by this we mean problem areas on which your performance is the absolute WORST (i.e., you get a lot of them wrong, and/or you take way too much time).
if time management is an issue, you can sacrifice problems in these areas, so that you have enough time to work on problems in areas in which you're stronger.
I also maintain an error log of all question (Tests + other practice material)...n keep going back to it to re-check that ones in a while.
this is good.
again, though, make sure that you get TAKEAWAYS from those problems. always learn something that will apply to OTHER problems as well - some sort of generalizable rule.
pretty much the only exception here is idioms (in sentence correction). idioms are always specific and unique, and can't be generalized to similar expressions. therefore, you have to learn those one at a time.
all other rules, though, you should try to generalize as much as possible so that they can apply to other problems.
I also spent enough time reviewing each of my tests...I dont seem to get a common trend there...
same comments on reviewing here as on the OG problems.
are you getting general lessons / takeaways?
are you learning things that will apply to OTHER problems?
the most common study mistake i've seen from students is to focus only on specific problems. make sure that you always think in terms of learning things that you can apply to future problems.
I think i have improved on SC & CR...but I still get 5-6 question wrong on the test.
is that 5-6 wrong in each of those areas, or is that a total?
if that's a total, then you're actually doing a great job. if those are individual numbers, then yes, you could improve.
RC has been my weak area...i try to focus on that in my tests & the read passages carefully.
hmm. i'd be careful about "reading passages carefully". in fact, you don't want to READ passages too "carefully", as that's just a waste of time.
when you read a passage, you should focus ONLY on the following things:
* what's the main point?
* what is the author trying to accomplish or convey? (this is almost the same as the last question, but not quite)
* HOW is the author trying to convey this point / message?
* what is the general structure of the passage? (i.e., is it a general passage followed by a specific example? is it a point / counterpoint? is it a timeline? etc)
these are the only things for which you should read.
if you "read the whole passage carefully", you're actually wasting a ton of time.
what you SHOULD read, EXTREMELY carefully, is the QUESTIONS (and then the specific PORTIONS of the passage that pertain to them). that is when you have to read in extreme, meticulous detail.
also, make sure you know that you can't read passages like a "normal person" would. you have to read more like a robot - NEVER assume ANYTHING that is not a 100% direct consequence of the literal words in the passage.
My quant is just about OK....tend to do silly mistakes...like missing out some info from the questions
if you're missing information, this is easy to fix: just WRITE OUT the information from the problem as you read it (preferably in some sort of abbreviated notation).
if you're making silly mistakes in arithmetic or algebra, then MAKE FLASH CARDS from EACH MISTAKE that you make. for instance, if you see (x^2)^3 and mistakenly think that's x^5, then make a flash card that says (x^2)^3 on the front and x^6 (the correct answer) on the back.
this is tedious and annoying, but, if you do it, you'll accumulate a deck of flash cards that consists entirely of mistakes that you personally made. that is just about the single most valuable thing that you can have on this test.
I am confused where to focus now & how to improve on my score...I need to score 700+
on what is this based? has a school told you that you actually need this score?
if not, you may want to set 690 as a goal score, rather than 700.
i'm totally serious about this. as humans we have an irrational attachment to "round" numbers (such as 700), so that goal score will impose extreme psychological stress.
here's what i mean:
if your goal score is 700, and you score 680 or 690, you'll probably be sorely disappointed.
on the other hand, if your goal score is 690 and you score 670 or 680, you'll see that as a very positive result.
this is weird, but it's universal. (in the same vein, studies have shown that consumers perceive a price drop from $2.00 to $1.85 as more significant than a price drop from $1.85 to $1.65, even though the latter is a bigger price drop.)
on the other hand, if a school has actually told you that you need a 700, then, well, you need a 700.
I orders all Manhantann study guides today alongwith 6 CAT & the question bank...thought of starting afresh with that...
ok.
by the way, you said that you bought the MGMAT SC guide. if this is so, then that guide already came with access to the CAT exams (this is the case for the purchase of any of our strategy guides).
but yes, this should be a good place to start the next phase of your studying.
good luck!
- preeti2776
- Course Students
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:24 am
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Thanks Ron for the detailed analysis! The takeway & the throwway question point are particularly helpful.
I try to generalise the learning but was not applying that as a mandatory step...will try to do this now...
On time management... i tend to fall short of time for 2-3 questions in verbal..which i try to guess mostly alternately....but I will try to apply your throwaway idea & the RC passage reading idea...n see if that helps me...
On accuracy in verbal..i get 5-6 wrongs in each type of problem(SC, CR & RC)...so this is an area for improvement...
On the 700+ score...no school has said this...this target I have set for myself based on the average GMAT scores of the B schools i'm aspiring to apply to...I really appreciate your thought process...but I want to target 700 to ensure i get atleast 700 if not better...I have a strong profile both professionally & academically...so I think 700+ should help make my application stronger
MH SC guide that i had earlier was something I got from a friend
...so, I thought i shd order the entire set myself ...so that i can make the most of what u guys have to offer...
I'm waiting it's arrival...will start off with that as soon as it arrives..any suggestions as to how much time should I budget to complete the entire set of 8...n any suggestions on any method to follow to go thru the stuff...
Will keep you posted on my preparation & scores progress...
Thanks a ton for all the wise advise!!!
I try to generalise the learning but was not applying that as a mandatory step...will try to do this now...
On time management... i tend to fall short of time for 2-3 questions in verbal..which i try to guess mostly alternately....but I will try to apply your throwaway idea & the RC passage reading idea...n see if that helps me...
On accuracy in verbal..i get 5-6 wrongs in each type of problem(SC, CR & RC)...so this is an area for improvement...
On the 700+ score...no school has said this...this target I have set for myself based on the average GMAT scores of the B schools i'm aspiring to apply to...I really appreciate your thought process...but I want to target 700 to ensure i get atleast 700 if not better...I have a strong profile both professionally & academically...so I think 700+ should help make my application stronger
MH SC guide that i had earlier was something I got from a friend
...so, I thought i shd order the entire set myself ...so that i can make the most of what u guys have to offer...
I'm waiting it's arrival...will start off with that as soon as it arrives..any suggestions as to how much time should I budget to complete the entire set of 8...n any suggestions on any method to follow to go thru the stuff...
Will keep you posted on my preparation & scores progress...
Thanks a ton for all the wise advise!!!
- RonPurewal
- Students
- Posts: 19744
- Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:23 am
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
hello -
if you're short 2-3 questions, then there's one of the two following reasons. what you should do is different, depending on which reason it is.
(1) you're spending WAY too much time on A HANDFUL of questions:
if this is the case, then you should figure out which question types you're spending too much time on, and, when you get to those types, just "cut the rope" after a designated time.
if you're taking our MGMAT practice tests, the questions will be broken down by type, so you'll be able to just look at the results and see which types are taking you more time.
(2) you're CONSISTENTLY spending a LITTLE more than the average time:
you should INCREMENTALLY try to speed up your reasoning process. however, don't try to amp up your speed overnight; that's the path to disaster. instead, try to make gradual increases in your speed, mostly through sheer volume of practice.
if this is your problem, then throwaway problems will help you much more than is the case if you have problem #1.
makes sense.
if this goal is a heavy psychological burden, you may want to use 690 as a goal score instead.
it's really not that much different, but the psychological implications of a non-"round" number are immense.
for instance, most students shooting for a 700 are immensely disappointed if they score 680 (or ever 690), whereas students shooting for a 690 are much more confident about the same 680.
those guides are pretty self-contained. if you just follow the order of the topics that's in there, you should be good.
one option for how to arrange your entire study plan is to follow the study organizer spreadsheet (should be available to you online once you buy the stuff).
this is the same week-by-week study organizer that's used by students in the nine-week course, so it's an effective way to organize the topics. of course, since you're self-study, you could adjust the pace as necessary.
good luck.
preeti2776 Wrote:On time management... i tend to fall short of time for 2-3 questions in verbal..which i try to guess mostly alternately....but I will try to apply your throwaway idea & the RC passage reading idea...n see if that helps me...
if you're short 2-3 questions, then there's one of the two following reasons. what you should do is different, depending on which reason it is.
(1) you're spending WAY too much time on A HANDFUL of questions:
if this is the case, then you should figure out which question types you're spending too much time on, and, when you get to those types, just "cut the rope" after a designated time.
if you're taking our MGMAT practice tests, the questions will be broken down by type, so you'll be able to just look at the results and see which types are taking you more time.
(2) you're CONSISTENTLY spending a LITTLE more than the average time:
you should INCREMENTALLY try to speed up your reasoning process. however, don't try to amp up your speed overnight; that's the path to disaster. instead, try to make gradual increases in your speed, mostly through sheer volume of practice.
if this is your problem, then throwaway problems will help you much more than is the case if you have problem #1.
on the 700+ score...no school has said this...this target I have set for myself based on the average GMAT scores of the B schools i'm aspiring to apply to...I really appreciate your thought process...but I want to target 700 to ensure i get atleast 700 if not better...I have a strong profile both professionally & academically...so I think 700+ should help make my application stronger
makes sense.
if this goal is a heavy psychological burden, you may want to use 690 as a goal score instead.
it's really not that much different, but the psychological implications of a non-"round" number are immense.
for instance, most students shooting for a 700 are immensely disappointed if they score 680 (or ever 690), whereas students shooting for a 690 are much more confident about the same 680.
any suggestions as to how much time should I budget to complete the entire set of 8...n any suggestions on any method to follow to go thru the stuff...
those guides are pretty self-contained. if you just follow the order of the topics that's in there, you should be good.
one option for how to arrange your entire study plan is to follow the study organizer spreadsheet (should be available to you online once you buy the stuff).
this is the same week-by-week study organizer that's used by students in the nine-week course, so it's an effective way to organize the topics. of course, since you're self-study, you could adjust the pace as necessary.
Will keep you posted on my preparation & scores progress...
Thanks a ton for all the wise advise!!!
good luck.
- preeti2776
- Course Students
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:24 am
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Thanks again Ron...your tips are indeed quite insightful.
I have received the Manhattan study guides & have started studying them....I try to study 2-3 hrs on weekdays & 6-7 hours on weekends....am planning to go thru these guides in the next 4 weeks (Max) & then redo the OG once again....
After this I will take practice tests(Manhanttan's CAT & official GMAT CD's CAT) & review my entire error logs....
One query that i have for you...the study guides have reference to 12th edition OG questions....but i have 11th Edition....Is there any way I can get the question list for each section of the study guide for the 11th Edition of OG...
Many thanks for everything!
I have received the Manhattan study guides & have started studying them....I try to study 2-3 hrs on weekdays & 6-7 hours on weekends....am planning to go thru these guides in the next 4 weeks (Max) & then redo the OG once again....
After this I will take practice tests(Manhanttan's CAT & official GMAT CD's CAT) & review my entire error logs....
One query that i have for you...the study guides have reference to 12th edition OG questions....but i have 11th Edition....Is there any way I can get the question list for each section of the study guide for the 11th Edition of OG...
Many thanks for everything!
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Take a look here for charts that can help you convert the sets of study questions:
[url]
http://www.manhattangmat.com/official-guide-12.cfm[/url]
Each question type has its own section - if you click on each one, you'll be able to download a conversion chart for that type.
I also want to mention that CAT exams are really good for (a) figuring out where you're scoring right now, (b) practicing stamina, and (c) analyzing your strengths and weaknesses. The actual act of just taking the exam, however, is NOT so useful for improving. It's what you do with the test results / between tests that helps you to improve. I'm not sure exactly how you're planning to take your practice tests, but if you plan to take a lot in a row without doing a TON of work in between each one, then you should not expect to see much improvement between tests.
Ditto on the OG practice problems. As Ron was saying above, you have to learn generally applicable take-aways from a problem in order to learn something useful. You don't learn the generally applicable take-aways merely by doing the problem. You learn those take-aways by reviewing and heavily analyzing the problems after trying them for the first time.
[url]
http://www.manhattangmat.com/official-guide-12.cfm[/url]
Each question type has its own section - if you click on each one, you'll be able to download a conversion chart for that type.
I also want to mention that CAT exams are really good for (a) figuring out where you're scoring right now, (b) practicing stamina, and (c) analyzing your strengths and weaknesses. The actual act of just taking the exam, however, is NOT so useful for improving. It's what you do with the test results / between tests that helps you to improve. I'm not sure exactly how you're planning to take your practice tests, but if you plan to take a lot in a row without doing a TON of work in between each one, then you should not expect to see much improvement between tests.
Ditto on the OG practice problems. As Ron was saying above, you have to learn generally applicable take-aways from a problem in order to learn something useful. You don't learn the generally applicable take-aways merely by doing the problem. You learn those take-aways by reviewing and heavily analyzing the problems after trying them for the first time.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- preeti2776
- Course Students
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:24 am
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Hi Stacey & Ron,
I wanted to keep you posted with my test prep & scores....to update on my progress...am happy to share that y'day I took the Manhattan Cat 4 & I scored 670(Verbal - 35 & Quant-46)...first time i broke the 650 hurdle...The progress has taken time...my previous score on the Manhanttan tests were -
Cat 1 - 620 (Quant - 43, Verbal - 32)
Cat 2 - 600 (Quant - 45, Verbal - 28)
Cat 3 - 640 (Quant - 43, Verbal - 35)
I tried to follow all the advice that guys had provided....I went thru all the Manhanttan study guides & the OG...carefully trying to understand the takeaways....I tried to analyse my tests...I found your sites's assessment reports for the Cat's very useful....I spent time strengthening my weak areas....Also made flashcards for the silly errors & mistakes that i tend to make on the test...It all helped...Thanks for all your valuable advice...
I have realised that there is a thin line between 650 to 700 zone...It depends more on how well your have managemented your time, how effective your pacing strategies are, how much mental stamina you have to endure even the challenging questions & not get knocked out by them & are in control of the test....
Few things that I have tried to do....I have identified the specific type of questions /cut off limit for questions which i find difficult & for which i try to make my best guess & move on....This has worked ok...but I am still working out how to make this more effective...
I still have few grey areas that I need to sort out....
On my last Cat in quant I got a score of 46 with 17 wrong answers (2 in 600-700 level & 15 in 700-800 level)....3,4,6,7,14,15,16,19,20,22,24,26,27,35,40,41....To improve my quant score I need to get all the 600-700 scrore questions right...I realise when i try to solve the 700-800 level question I tend to take longer time....So,need your advice on what approach will be better here....
On the Verbal section of the last Cat, I got a score of 35 with 16 answers wrong( 1 in 500-600 level, 10 in 600-700 level & 5 in 700-800 level)...i kind of have got stuck at 35 score as even in my last test I scored 35....I also tend to fall short of time for 3-4 question in verbal...i try to identify long CR & RC questions which i quess & move ahead but...still I fall short of a little time at the end....So, need some advice from you on this...
My test is 3 weeks away...on 4th Nov...Any tips on pacing strategies /time management will really help...I want to break on 700 barrier!!!
Plus, any thing you guys think i should be doing in these 3 weeks that would really help..
I have 2 Manhattan Cats & 2 Gmat cats remaining...i plan to take one each week...during the week i intend to spend more time practicing on my weak areas & going over my error log....
I owe you guys a lot...thanks a ton!!!
I wanted to keep you posted with my test prep & scores....to update on my progress...am happy to share that y'day I took the Manhattan Cat 4 & I scored 670(Verbal - 35 & Quant-46)...first time i broke the 650 hurdle...The progress has taken time...my previous score on the Manhanttan tests were -
Cat 1 - 620 (Quant - 43, Verbal - 32)
Cat 2 - 600 (Quant - 45, Verbal - 28)
Cat 3 - 640 (Quant - 43, Verbal - 35)
I tried to follow all the advice that guys had provided....I went thru all the Manhanttan study guides & the OG...carefully trying to understand the takeaways....I tried to analyse my tests...I found your sites's assessment reports for the Cat's very useful....I spent time strengthening my weak areas....Also made flashcards for the silly errors & mistakes that i tend to make on the test...It all helped...Thanks for all your valuable advice...
I have realised that there is a thin line between 650 to 700 zone...It depends more on how well your have managemented your time, how effective your pacing strategies are, how much mental stamina you have to endure even the challenging questions & not get knocked out by them & are in control of the test....
Few things that I have tried to do....I have identified the specific type of questions /cut off limit for questions which i find difficult & for which i try to make my best guess & move on....This has worked ok...but I am still working out how to make this more effective...
I still have few grey areas that I need to sort out....
On my last Cat in quant I got a score of 46 with 17 wrong answers (2 in 600-700 level & 15 in 700-800 level)....3,4,6,7,14,15,16,19,20,22,24,26,27,35,40,41....To improve my quant score I need to get all the 600-700 scrore questions right...I realise when i try to solve the 700-800 level question I tend to take longer time....So,need your advice on what approach will be better here....
On the Verbal section of the last Cat, I got a score of 35 with 16 answers wrong( 1 in 500-600 level, 10 in 600-700 level & 5 in 700-800 level)...i kind of have got stuck at 35 score as even in my last test I scored 35....I also tend to fall short of time for 3-4 question in verbal...i try to identify long CR & RC questions which i quess & move ahead but...still I fall short of a little time at the end....So, need some advice from you on this...
My test is 3 weeks away...on 4th Nov...Any tips on pacing strategies /time management will really help...I want to break on 700 barrier!!!
Plus, any thing you guys think i should be doing in these 3 weeks that would really help..
I have 2 Manhattan Cats & 2 Gmat cats remaining...i plan to take one each week...during the week i intend to spend more time practicing on my weak areas & going over my error log....
I owe you guys a lot...thanks a ton!!!
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
You will ALWAYS be given questions that are too hard for you to do and on which you will be tempted to spend too much time. It doesn't matter how good you get - the test will just give you something harder. So part of your task is to identify when the test has given you something that's just too hard. Still try it, see what you can do, but let it go if it's just too hard.
Again: you cannot avoid having this situation occur - there's always something harder for the test to give! So sometimes your task is NOT "how do I get this right?" but "how do I recognize, when seeing something like this, that I'm not going to get this right, and I have to let it go before I spend too much time on it?"
Most of your wrong answers are in the 700+ range, which is good, but as you noted - you can't afford to get too many of the sub-700 questions wrong if you want a 700. You can get some wrong, but not a lot. When you get something wrong that you feel you should have gotten right (or need to get right in future), start by asking yourself why. Why, specifically, did you get this one wrong? And then go about fixing all of the things that caused you to get this one wrong.
Also, spend some time learning how to make educated guesses, so that when you do hit the "too hard" problems (as you will, no matter what!), you have something else to do besides spend too much time because you don't know what to do. It's easiest to learn how to make educated guesses by studying problems that you already know how to do - not super-easy problems, though - harder ones that are still within your ability range. Learn how to do it, then apply those lessons when you see an even harder problem of the same type.
Keep up the good work!
Again: you cannot avoid having this situation occur - there's always something harder for the test to give! So sometimes your task is NOT "how do I get this right?" but "how do I recognize, when seeing something like this, that I'm not going to get this right, and I have to let it go before I spend too much time on it?"
Most of your wrong answers are in the 700+ range, which is good, but as you noted - you can't afford to get too many of the sub-700 questions wrong if you want a 700. You can get some wrong, but not a lot. When you get something wrong that you feel you should have gotten right (or need to get right in future), start by asking yourself why. Why, specifically, did you get this one wrong? And then go about fixing all of the things that caused you to get this one wrong.
Also, spend some time learning how to make educated guesses, so that when you do hit the "too hard" problems (as you will, no matter what!), you have something else to do besides spend too much time because you don't know what to do. It's easiest to learn how to make educated guesses by studying problems that you already know how to do - not super-easy problems, though - harder ones that are still within your ability range. Learn how to do it, then apply those lessons when you see an even harder problem of the same type.
Keep up the good work!
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- preeti2776
- Course Students
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:24 am
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Hi,
I took my Gmat today...it was a disaster...I scored a terrible 580(Q- 41 & V-29)..i couldnt believe my eyes when the score appeared on the screen...
In my entire preparation i didnt get a score so low...had never scored below 600...i was averaging 650 both on Gmat prep & Mgmat in my practice tests....
My preparation run-up was ok....was following all your & Ron's advice...had taken the last test 5 days before the test Gmat prep & scored 650 (Q-49 & V-32)...About the preparation before that u know from the thread below
On the test day: Was quite relaxed & slept well the night below...am not a morning person...so i had taken the afternoon slot at 1pm......didnt study too much day before as u had advised...the AWA when off smoothly....had taken the break afer that, had an energy drink...first question on the quant was difficult...spent 3-4 mins on tht...then decided to guess & move on...from the 2nd question i could solve all questions(mostly I think)...I could sense the difficulty level was much higher than Gmat prep or OG & didnt seem to change thru the test...since it was getting difficult, i thought i was doing well....i tried my best to solve each problem...towards the end had to guess 2 questions...had taken the break..had a banana....the verbal started ok...again the difficulty level was much beyond what i has seen on the Gmat prep or even the Mgmat...i usually do well on Cr..but even that sounded pretty abstract...the RC's were worst...i got 3 RC's...1 short & two longs ones..the short one was easy both both the long ones was very boring & abstact....towards the end i had to guess a 3-4 questions....but the difficulty level didnt change...in fact i got 36 or 37 question that was boldfaced CR on argument stucture....I had a ok type feeling towards the end & was not exhuasted either...like i used to have on my practise tests....but my score was terrible...
Honesty..though i was aspiring for a score closer to 700...i would hve been even satisfied with a score closer to 650..but even tht didnt happen...
Am very confused now? what do i do next..is there any point trying again...how can i really improve....when i have alreally tried all the things in the book as well all the advice provided...
Pl help me with your advice
I took my Gmat today...it was a disaster...I scored a terrible 580(Q- 41 & V-29)..i couldnt believe my eyes when the score appeared on the screen...
In my entire preparation i didnt get a score so low...had never scored below 600...i was averaging 650 both on Gmat prep & Mgmat in my practice tests....
My preparation run-up was ok....was following all your & Ron's advice...had taken the last test 5 days before the test Gmat prep & scored 650 (Q-49 & V-32)...About the preparation before that u know from the thread below
On the test day: Was quite relaxed & slept well the night below...am not a morning person...so i had taken the afternoon slot at 1pm......didnt study too much day before as u had advised...the AWA when off smoothly....had taken the break afer that, had an energy drink...first question on the quant was difficult...spent 3-4 mins on tht...then decided to guess & move on...from the 2nd question i could solve all questions(mostly I think)...I could sense the difficulty level was much higher than Gmat prep or OG & didnt seem to change thru the test...since it was getting difficult, i thought i was doing well....i tried my best to solve each problem...towards the end had to guess 2 questions...had taken the break..had a banana....the verbal started ok...again the difficulty level was much beyond what i has seen on the Gmat prep or even the Mgmat...i usually do well on Cr..but even that sounded pretty abstract...the RC's were worst...i got 3 RC's...1 short & two longs ones..the short one was easy both both the long ones was very boring & abstact....towards the end i had to guess a 3-4 questions....but the difficulty level didnt change...in fact i got 36 or 37 question that was boldfaced CR on argument stucture....I had a ok type feeling towards the end & was not exhuasted either...like i used to have on my practise tests....but my score was terrible...
Honesty..though i was aspiring for a score closer to 700...i would hve been even satisfied with a score closer to 650..but even tht didnt happen...
Am very confused now? what do i do next..is there any point trying again...how can i really improve....when i have alreally tried all the things in the book as well all the advice provided...
Pl help me with your advice
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience on test day.
it looks like your quant score was the part that really dropped. You mentioned spending too much time on the first question and I know you'd been struggling with the time on earlier practice tests. Did you also spend too much time on other questions? You had to guess on 2 questions - did you have others on which you had to speed up, even a little bit? (eg, answering in 1.5m instead of 2m?) I'm worried that you had an imbalance in the way you were spending your time.
If you were continuing to hang on a bit too long to problems that you couldn't do (and were probably answering incorrectly anyway), then that would have forced you to cut some time from problems that you could do - which would increase the chances that you made mistakes even though you did know how to do the problem. If that happens enough times, it can really bring your score down.
Also, on the practice tests, did you do everything under strict official conditions, including the essays? 8-minute breaks, no use of the pause button, nothing to eat and drink during the sections, etc?
it looks like your quant score was the part that really dropped. You mentioned spending too much time on the first question and I know you'd been struggling with the time on earlier practice tests. Did you also spend too much time on other questions? You had to guess on 2 questions - did you have others on which you had to speed up, even a little bit? (eg, answering in 1.5m instead of 2m?) I'm worried that you had an imbalance in the way you were spending your time.
If you were continuing to hang on a bit too long to problems that you couldn't do (and were probably answering incorrectly anyway), then that would have forced you to cut some time from problems that you could do - which would increase the chances that you made mistakes even though you did know how to do the problem. If that happens enough times, it can really bring your score down.
Also, on the practice tests, did you do everything under strict official conditions, including the essays? 8-minute breaks, no use of the pause button, nothing to eat and drink during the sections, etc?
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- preeti2776
- Course Students
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:24 am
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Hi Stacey,
I was tracking my time with a time chart that had worked out ( 75 mins - 0 q's, 60min- 7 q's, 45min - 14 q's, 30min 21- q's, 15mins -29 q's. 0 mins - 37 q's). I was doing about couple of questions off the track thoughout the test....dont remember spending too much time on any other question...i was speeding up depending on the tracking chart...while i was solving i could get answers that were matching the options & i could also mostly recheck my anwsers...but the score doesnt show so i would have gone wrong somewhere...
During my practice tests i tried to follow strict official condition including what I eat in the breaks....i never used any pause button on any of my tests...also, on the Gmat prep test i could find many q's that are more familiar from the OG's...but as i said i found the quant & verbal on the Gmat prep to be far more easier than the actual test...
I am very keen to correct my score, as i dont think it a correct representation on what i can do....
I need your advice desperately on the following:
1. What should my preparation approach be now...As i have already gone thru OG,Manhattan study guides, most of practice tests...where do i start & what should i do differently...this time i dont want to have any time constrains on giving the exam...i just want to focus on getting the right score...once i'm happy with my prep i will book the test...
2. Do u think going thought ur course or seeking some personal tutoring will be of any help
3. I read in your replies to other post...u mentioned about going thru same material but ensuring u master every question....i tend to have answers to those questions in my memory.. as everything is still fresh...how could i really learn in this case?
4. What can do to improve on timing on both sections?
5. Where can i get more RC's & CR of the type that I found on the actual test(more difficult ones)...most of the material & level on OG & Manhattan i am comfortable with...i think i need more tougher material to practice with...any soucres of help..
6.What kind of timeline yardsticks should i have for my preparation approach
I am really sorry for the long list of queries...i hope u understand my situation..i am clueless currently & desperate for some direction...
Thanks a ton!!
StaceyKoprince Wrote:it looks like your quant score was the part that really dropped. You mentioned spending too much time on the first question and I know you'd been struggling with the time on earlier practice tests. Did you also spend too much time on other questions? You had to guess on 2 questions - did you have others on which you had to speed up, even a little bit? (eg, answering in 1.5m instead of 2m?) I'm worried that you had an imbalance in the way you were spending your time.
I was tracking my time with a time chart that had worked out ( 75 mins - 0 q's, 60min- 7 q's, 45min - 14 q's, 30min 21- q's, 15mins -29 q's. 0 mins - 37 q's). I was doing about couple of questions off the track thoughout the test....dont remember spending too much time on any other question...i was speeding up depending on the tracking chart...while i was solving i could get answers that were matching the options & i could also mostly recheck my anwsers...but the score doesnt show so i would have gone wrong somewhere...
StaceyKoprince Wrote:Also, on the practice tests, did you do everything under strict official conditions, including the essays? 8-minute breaks, no use of the pause button, nothing to eat and drink during the sections, etc?
During my practice tests i tried to follow strict official condition including what I eat in the breaks....i never used any pause button on any of my tests...also, on the Gmat prep test i could find many q's that are more familiar from the OG's...but as i said i found the quant & verbal on the Gmat prep to be far more easier than the actual test...
I am very keen to correct my score, as i dont think it a correct representation on what i can do....
I need your advice desperately on the following:
1. What should my preparation approach be now...As i have already gone thru OG,Manhattan study guides, most of practice tests...where do i start & what should i do differently...this time i dont want to have any time constrains on giving the exam...i just want to focus on getting the right score...once i'm happy with my prep i will book the test...
2. Do u think going thought ur course or seeking some personal tutoring will be of any help
3. I read in your replies to other post...u mentioned about going thru same material but ensuring u master every question....i tend to have answers to those questions in my memory.. as everything is still fresh...how could i really learn in this case?
4. What can do to improve on timing on both sections?
5. Where can i get more RC's & CR of the type that I found on the actual test(more difficult ones)...most of the material & level on OG & Manhattan i am comfortable with...i think i need more tougher material to practice with...any soucres of help..
6.What kind of timeline yardsticks should i have for my preparation approach
I am really sorry for the long list of queries...i hope u understand my situation..i am clueless currently & desperate for some direction...
Thanks a ton!!
- tomslawsky
- Students
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:07 pm
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
If i can give you a tip- get the OG 12. I know it is a popular position to say "if you have 11, don't get 12". However, I feel that the OG 12 really kicked the quant up in scale by a notch, possibly 2. In fact, after doing all of the questions in both 11 and 12, I really can't understand the position that the OG 12 wouldn't be much more help. Also, don't forget about the diagnostic exam, there are some real killer (I'm guessing 750 level) questions there.
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Thanks, tom, for your input.
Preeti, take a look at your last two MGMAT tests. Look at the problem lists, which tell you exactly how long you spent on each problem. (We're doing this because we need to see from the details whether you're mis-managing your time between questions. Even if you generally finish on time, you could still be mis-managing the time between questions.)
On quant, count the number of times you went over 2.5m. Add up the total "extra" time spent on those problems. Then look for problems on which you spent less than 1m15sec and got wrong. For each one, ask yourself why. If you thought that you knew how to do it, count that problem. Add up the ones in this category (you thought you could do it). If you knew you didn't know how to do it and just gave up quickly, don't count that problem. Then look at problems on which you spent 1m15s to 2m. Are there any that you completely knew how to do but you made a careless mistake? How many are in this category? If there are more than 2, you likely also lost points here via the time pressure. (It's okay to have 1 or 2 though - we always make some careless mistakes no matter what.)
The "extra" time spent cost you these other "fast" and "careless mistake" problems. If any of these problems were rated below 700, then getting those wrong hurt your score - the lower the rating, the more it hurt your score.
Now, look at how you did on the ones on which you spent extra time. Did you get a higher percentage right than you did on the section overall? Did that extra time help in that way? Or did you get just as many wrong as usual - or even more wrong than usual?
On your practice tests, it's great that you followed strict official conditions. That included the essays, right? You did both essays each time?
In response to your questions:
1. In terms of what to do next, it's actually the case that you're going to return to the books you've already been using. Your goal now is not to do a bunch of new questions. Your goal is to figure out what you haven't learned yet that you need to learn from the questions and materials you've already used. Until you figure out and fix whatever things are still holding you back, it's not a good use of your time to do a bunch of new problems. So, maybe follow Tom's advice to get OG12, but don't use it yet! Save it to test yourself after you have combed through the older material again to figure out what you're still missing.
My next suggestion is based upon your comment that you don't have a set timeframe; you're just going to do what you need to do to get ready to take the test again. I can't remember whether you took the course or just used the self-study materials. If you've been studying on your own, then one thing you may want to consider is taking a class or working with a tutor. These are obviously expensive options (tutoring much more so than a class), and I also obviously have a conflict of interest in suggesting this. I think it's possible, though, that you could benefit from having the ability to interact with and ask questions of an expert instructor. The other option, if you've been using the self-study with the tapes of the classes, is to set yourself the task of "taking" the class by watching one tape a week and following the syllabus for each class. That's less expensive, and you get some of the benefit of working with an instructor (hearing how s/he approaches problems and explains things). You don't, though, get the benefit of being able to ask questions or raise your own concerns; the tape obviously can't respond to you.
2. Oh - I just noticed your 2nd question asked about this very issue! Okay, well, see above. :)
3. You're not trying to learn what the answer is, though - the questions you study aren't going to be on the test, right? So it's not about learning "the answer to this question is A." What you're trying to do is learn: how does someone go about figuring out that the answer to this question is A? How do you translate the mumbo-jumbo wording of the question into something that it straightforward so that you know what to do? What steps actually need to be executed in order to get from the beginning to the end? Are there any shortcuts / more efficient ways to move through the problem? Are there any traps? How can I spot them in advance so that I don't fall into them? How would I make an educated guess, if I needed to? If I see another problem in future - a different problem - that tests the same concept that this problem is testing, what will that look like? How will I recognize that future problem, so that I can think "Oh, this new problem is actually like that other one I did" (the one that you're actually studying right now) "and that one was about prime numbers and least common multiples, so that's probably what this one is about too - let me see - yep, this one is about LCM! Okay, so I want to do the same thing on this one that I did on that last one that was also about LCM." So you're actually recognizing the problem category and remembering what to do. You're not just figuring everything out from scratch each time.
It doesn't matter that you already know "the answer is A" - you can still do all of the above while knowing the right answer. In fact, that's how it works for most people. They try it. They look up the answer. Now they know the answer. And THEN they go do all of the analysis.
4. Timing: start with the analysis that I talked about above. Let's figure out where the timing problems really are, as precisely as possible. What kinds of problems tend to suck you in? Etc. Then we can figure out what to do.
5. You can get some new CR and RC eventually by getting OG12 - but don't start there. Start with the older stuff and the analysis I described above. When / if you get new RC, don't do ALL of the questions at once. On the real test, you'll be limited to 3 or 4 questions for a passage, so do no more than 4 at once in practice. Then put that passage aside for a while. When you come back to it (after at least several weeks), do the rest of the questions. I usually base what I do on the number of questions for the passage. I do half of the questions the first time (every other question) and the other half the next time. To make it easier to keep track, I'll do all of the odd ones the first time through and all of the even ones the second time through - that way, I don't have to keep referring to a list to remember what I've done already.
Long passages from the LSAT are similar to (but sometimes harder than) GMAT passages. Short LSAT passages are mostly not that similar, though - those are usually sort of a hybrid between RC and arguments. Some LSAT CR questions are quite similar to the GMAT, but some are very different, so you can try those but when you see something that seems completely non-GMAT-like, just skip it.
6. By timeline yardsticks, you're talking about your overall study, right? Not timeline yardsticks for pacing yourself during the test? Right now, I wouldn't set any specific yardsticks; I'd just think of it in terms of "at least a month, probably more." I wouldn't take another practice test for at least 2-3 weeks, possibly longer. Decide on an overall approach (continued self study? taped class self study? live class, either online or in person? tutor?) and start to make that happen.
If you take a live class or work with a tutor, explain your situation to your instructor and ask him/her for some help / perspective. If you're working with a tutor, that will be part of the overall service, obviously, and you should develop a timeline with that tutor. If you take a live class, email the instructor in advance of the class or after the first class, explain your situation (give enough detail for the teacher to understand, but don't overwhelm the teacher with too much at once), and ask for general advice. Participate in class all the time - raise your hand, answer questions, try to formulate your own answer before someone else answers, etc. You're both trying to get better yourself and making sure your teacher can see how you think / work, so that s/he can give you better advice. Periodically, check in with the teacher to discuss how things are going and get additional advice. (Tip: get to class early. The teachers are typically just sitting around for 15-20 minutes beforehand, waiting for class to start, and people almost never come early to ask questions, so it's a great time to get some one-on-one attention.)
Preeti, take a look at your last two MGMAT tests. Look at the problem lists, which tell you exactly how long you spent on each problem. (We're doing this because we need to see from the details whether you're mis-managing your time between questions. Even if you generally finish on time, you could still be mis-managing the time between questions.)
On quant, count the number of times you went over 2.5m. Add up the total "extra" time spent on those problems. Then look for problems on which you spent less than 1m15sec and got wrong. For each one, ask yourself why. If you thought that you knew how to do it, count that problem. Add up the ones in this category (you thought you could do it). If you knew you didn't know how to do it and just gave up quickly, don't count that problem. Then look at problems on which you spent 1m15s to 2m. Are there any that you completely knew how to do but you made a careless mistake? How many are in this category? If there are more than 2, you likely also lost points here via the time pressure. (It's okay to have 1 or 2 though - we always make some careless mistakes no matter what.)
The "extra" time spent cost you these other "fast" and "careless mistake" problems. If any of these problems were rated below 700, then getting those wrong hurt your score - the lower the rating, the more it hurt your score.
Now, look at how you did on the ones on which you spent extra time. Did you get a higher percentage right than you did on the section overall? Did that extra time help in that way? Or did you get just as many wrong as usual - or even more wrong than usual?
On your practice tests, it's great that you followed strict official conditions. That included the essays, right? You did both essays each time?
In response to your questions:
1. In terms of what to do next, it's actually the case that you're going to return to the books you've already been using. Your goal now is not to do a bunch of new questions. Your goal is to figure out what you haven't learned yet that you need to learn from the questions and materials you've already used. Until you figure out and fix whatever things are still holding you back, it's not a good use of your time to do a bunch of new problems. So, maybe follow Tom's advice to get OG12, but don't use it yet! Save it to test yourself after you have combed through the older material again to figure out what you're still missing.
My next suggestion is based upon your comment that you don't have a set timeframe; you're just going to do what you need to do to get ready to take the test again. I can't remember whether you took the course or just used the self-study materials. If you've been studying on your own, then one thing you may want to consider is taking a class or working with a tutor. These are obviously expensive options (tutoring much more so than a class), and I also obviously have a conflict of interest in suggesting this. I think it's possible, though, that you could benefit from having the ability to interact with and ask questions of an expert instructor. The other option, if you've been using the self-study with the tapes of the classes, is to set yourself the task of "taking" the class by watching one tape a week and following the syllabus for each class. That's less expensive, and you get some of the benefit of working with an instructor (hearing how s/he approaches problems and explains things). You don't, though, get the benefit of being able to ask questions or raise your own concerns; the tape obviously can't respond to you.
2. Oh - I just noticed your 2nd question asked about this very issue! Okay, well, see above. :)
3. You're not trying to learn what the answer is, though - the questions you study aren't going to be on the test, right? So it's not about learning "the answer to this question is A." What you're trying to do is learn: how does someone go about figuring out that the answer to this question is A? How do you translate the mumbo-jumbo wording of the question into something that it straightforward so that you know what to do? What steps actually need to be executed in order to get from the beginning to the end? Are there any shortcuts / more efficient ways to move through the problem? Are there any traps? How can I spot them in advance so that I don't fall into them? How would I make an educated guess, if I needed to? If I see another problem in future - a different problem - that tests the same concept that this problem is testing, what will that look like? How will I recognize that future problem, so that I can think "Oh, this new problem is actually like that other one I did" (the one that you're actually studying right now) "and that one was about prime numbers and least common multiples, so that's probably what this one is about too - let me see - yep, this one is about LCM! Okay, so I want to do the same thing on this one that I did on that last one that was also about LCM." So you're actually recognizing the problem category and remembering what to do. You're not just figuring everything out from scratch each time.
It doesn't matter that you already know "the answer is A" - you can still do all of the above while knowing the right answer. In fact, that's how it works for most people. They try it. They look up the answer. Now they know the answer. And THEN they go do all of the analysis.
4. Timing: start with the analysis that I talked about above. Let's figure out where the timing problems really are, as precisely as possible. What kinds of problems tend to suck you in? Etc. Then we can figure out what to do.
5. You can get some new CR and RC eventually by getting OG12 - but don't start there. Start with the older stuff and the analysis I described above. When / if you get new RC, don't do ALL of the questions at once. On the real test, you'll be limited to 3 or 4 questions for a passage, so do no more than 4 at once in practice. Then put that passage aside for a while. When you come back to it (after at least several weeks), do the rest of the questions. I usually base what I do on the number of questions for the passage. I do half of the questions the first time (every other question) and the other half the next time. To make it easier to keep track, I'll do all of the odd ones the first time through and all of the even ones the second time through - that way, I don't have to keep referring to a list to remember what I've done already.
Long passages from the LSAT are similar to (but sometimes harder than) GMAT passages. Short LSAT passages are mostly not that similar, though - those are usually sort of a hybrid between RC and arguments. Some LSAT CR questions are quite similar to the GMAT, but some are very different, so you can try those but when you see something that seems completely non-GMAT-like, just skip it.
6. By timeline yardsticks, you're talking about your overall study, right? Not timeline yardsticks for pacing yourself during the test? Right now, I wouldn't set any specific yardsticks; I'd just think of it in terms of "at least a month, probably more." I wouldn't take another practice test for at least 2-3 weeks, possibly longer. Decide on an overall approach (continued self study? taped class self study? live class, either online or in person? tutor?) and start to make that happen.
If you take a live class or work with a tutor, explain your situation to your instructor and ask him/her for some help / perspective. If you're working with a tutor, that will be part of the overall service, obviously, and you should develop a timeline with that tutor. If you take a live class, email the instructor in advance of the class or after the first class, explain your situation (give enough detail for the teacher to understand, but don't overwhelm the teacher with too much at once), and ask for general advice. Participate in class all the time - raise your hand, answer questions, try to formulate your own answer before someone else answers, etc. You're both trying to get better yourself and making sure your teacher can see how you think / work, so that s/he can give you better advice. Periodically, check in with the teacher to discuss how things are going and get additional advice. (Tip: get to class early. The teachers are typically just sitting around for 15-20 minutes beforehand, waiting for class to start, and people almost never come early to ask questions, so it's a great time to get some one-on-one attention.)
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- preeti2776
- Course Students
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:24 am
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Firstly, thanks Tom for your tip. I will go & buy the OG 12. But as Stacey suggested, I will only use it after I am done with the review of all the old stuff.
Thanks Stacey for so patiently answering all my questions & for all your precious advice. You are an angel!
As you had suggested I reviewed my last two MGMAT tests. I will share with u what I found. Before that, just to recap I am putting here all my practice tests results (starting from first to last).
1)Princeton 1 - 649 (Q- 41, V- 38)
2)Princeton 2 - 669 (Q- 48, V- 32)
3)Gmatprep 1 - 610 (Q- 42, V- 32)
4)Score 800 Test 1 - 650 (Q- 38, V- 40)
5)Score 800 Test 2 - 640 (Q- 46, V- 30)
6)MGMAT 1 - 620 (Q-43, V- 32)
7)Gmar prep 2 -640 (Q-42, V-34)
8)MGMAT 2 - 600 (Q-45, V - 28)
9)MGMAT 3 - 640 (Q-43, V-35)
10)MGMAT 4 - 670 (Q-46, V-35)
11)MGMAT 5 - 640 (Q- 43, V-35)
12)Gmat Prep 2 - 650 (Q-49,V-30)
Real GMAT - 580 (Q-41, V-29)
So, as you can see my quant score was typically in the 42-45 range but on the last Gmat prep test it shot to 49 & on actual GMAT dropped to 41.
On Verbal, my typically score was 32-35, which on actual GMAT dropped to 29.
So compared to my typical score on practice tests, both my verbal & quant scores dropped by 2-5 points.
My learning from this analysis: Your typical range on practice test can vary by 2/3 points on actual test & typical practice test score is a good indication of your actual skill level, but as the shift can be on the lower side also, one needs to ensure the average score is above your target score (min 50/80 point higher than your target)--> This will determine you are ready to take the test.
I was probably not ready to take the test as my average practice tests scores were not closer/higher than my target score.
Now the results of the analysis suggested by you. On the last two MGMATs quant sections:
No.of q's (spend>2.5mins) 10-14 Q's (Accuracy level 40-35%)
No. of q's (Spend <1.15 mins) 9-13 Q's (Accuracy level 45%)
No. of careless mistakes in q's (spend 1.15-2 mins) 2 Q's
Overall accuracy level on the quant section 55-60%
Other observations:
- I spend 8-10 mins extra time on 10-14 q's(total time over 2.5 mins)
- On the q's I spent less than 1.15 min, I found I could have solved 50% of them correctly if i had spend more time on those.
- I usually have to increase my pace towards the end of the test in the last 5-7 q's
- My weak areas are DS, long word translations q's & number problems (lower accurary level ~40%)
- I tend to take longer calculations methods & end up doing some careless mistake in the process
On the verbal section, I found the following on analysis,
- SC: I usually take longer time in SC average time 2 mins vs 90 sec target (max); I tried in the past but I have not been able to reduce the timing without comprimising on the accuary level
- RC: In long RC specifially on abstract topics I usually fumble & my accuracy level dips to as low as 30-40%;my averagge timing for a RC q's is ok 2mins
- CR: is my strong area; my average timing for a CR q's is ok 2-2.5mins
- On timing on verbal sections, I tend to fall short on time towards the end & have to pace up in the last 7-10 q's with 10-12 mins to spare. I try to stick to your timing quideline on different type of questions but i usually struggle as a result I had resorted to identify a couple of throwaways problems e.g the bold faced CR & long SC(entire line underlined) which I guess & move on. But, still find it tight towards the end.
So, as you can see there are many areas to improve & I would need some expert help as I have not been able to sort it myself as yet. If you can advice anything from the above analysis...pl suggest..
Till now I have been doing self study with Manhattan study guides, OG,Princeton books etc; based on your advice I have been thinking of taking the online class....I have enrolled to take the 1st trial class this saturday, depending on my comfort level I will enroll to the class...if for some reason I'm not comforable (which i think will not happen) I will buy the recordings of classes & try n stick to the course schedule.
So based on all your advice & on much thinking from mysde....my most probably preparation approach will be -
1) Enroll to the class & follow the entire 9 week schedule with the assignments
2) Will write to the instructor, explain my situation & follow any advice provided thru the course period
3) Will actively participate in the class & ensure I make the most of the oppurtunity at hand...am quite excited with the idea of attending a class...it's been so long after I passed out of college....by God's grace, have been a good student thru my academic life...so, I will see how I do post these classes
4) Will do the OG 11, verbal & quant review again alongwith/after the course...then apply all learnings to solve OG 12...do more practice with LSAT material (RC & CR)
5) Do practice tests frequently...starting somewhere in the middle of the course.....if i hit my target score after 1 month of the course(max)...I will book the test
6) Last but NOT least, I will keep you (my angel) posted on my progress.
Pl suggest if the above approach looks ok...
Many thanks & God bless!!!
Regards,
Preeti
Thanks Stacey for so patiently answering all my questions & for all your precious advice. You are an angel!
As you had suggested I reviewed my last two MGMAT tests. I will share with u what I found. Before that, just to recap I am putting here all my practice tests results (starting from first to last).
1)Princeton 1 - 649 (Q- 41, V- 38)
2)Princeton 2 - 669 (Q- 48, V- 32)
3)Gmatprep 1 - 610 (Q- 42, V- 32)
4)Score 800 Test 1 - 650 (Q- 38, V- 40)
5)Score 800 Test 2 - 640 (Q- 46, V- 30)
6)MGMAT 1 - 620 (Q-43, V- 32)
7)Gmar prep 2 -640 (Q-42, V-34)
8)MGMAT 2 - 600 (Q-45, V - 28)
9)MGMAT 3 - 640 (Q-43, V-35)
10)MGMAT 4 - 670 (Q-46, V-35)
11)MGMAT 5 - 640 (Q- 43, V-35)
12)Gmat Prep 2 - 650 (Q-49,V-30)
Real GMAT - 580 (Q-41, V-29)
So, as you can see my quant score was typically in the 42-45 range but on the last Gmat prep test it shot to 49 & on actual GMAT dropped to 41.
On Verbal, my typically score was 32-35, which on actual GMAT dropped to 29.
So compared to my typical score on practice tests, both my verbal & quant scores dropped by 2-5 points.
My learning from this analysis: Your typical range on practice test can vary by 2/3 points on actual test & typical practice test score is a good indication of your actual skill level, but as the shift can be on the lower side also, one needs to ensure the average score is above your target score (min 50/80 point higher than your target)--> This will determine you are ready to take the test.
I was probably not ready to take the test as my average practice tests scores were not closer/higher than my target score.
Now the results of the analysis suggested by you. On the last two MGMATs quant sections:
No.of q's (spend>2.5mins) 10-14 Q's (Accuracy level 40-35%)
No. of q's (Spend <1.15 mins) 9-13 Q's (Accuracy level 45%)
No. of careless mistakes in q's (spend 1.15-2 mins) 2 Q's
Overall accuracy level on the quant section 55-60%
Other observations:
- I spend 8-10 mins extra time on 10-14 q's(total time over 2.5 mins)
- On the q's I spent less than 1.15 min, I found I could have solved 50% of them correctly if i had spend more time on those.
- I usually have to increase my pace towards the end of the test in the last 5-7 q's
- My weak areas are DS, long word translations q's & number problems (lower accurary level ~40%)
- I tend to take longer calculations methods & end up doing some careless mistake in the process
On the verbal section, I found the following on analysis,
- SC: I usually take longer time in SC average time 2 mins vs 90 sec target (max); I tried in the past but I have not been able to reduce the timing without comprimising on the accuary level
- RC: In long RC specifially on abstract topics I usually fumble & my accuracy level dips to as low as 30-40%;my averagge timing for a RC q's is ok 2mins
- CR: is my strong area; my average timing for a CR q's is ok 2-2.5mins
- On timing on verbal sections, I tend to fall short on time towards the end & have to pace up in the last 7-10 q's with 10-12 mins to spare. I try to stick to your timing quideline on different type of questions but i usually struggle as a result I had resorted to identify a couple of throwaways problems e.g the bold faced CR & long SC(entire line underlined) which I guess & move on. But, still find it tight towards the end.
So, as you can see there are many areas to improve & I would need some expert help as I have not been able to sort it myself as yet. If you can advice anything from the above analysis...pl suggest..
Till now I have been doing self study with Manhattan study guides, OG,Princeton books etc; based on your advice I have been thinking of taking the online class....I have enrolled to take the 1st trial class this saturday, depending on my comfort level I will enroll to the class...if for some reason I'm not comforable (which i think will not happen) I will buy the recordings of classes & try n stick to the course schedule.
So based on all your advice & on much thinking from mysde....my most probably preparation approach will be -
1) Enroll to the class & follow the entire 9 week schedule with the assignments
2) Will write to the instructor, explain my situation & follow any advice provided thru the course period
3) Will actively participate in the class & ensure I make the most of the oppurtunity at hand...am quite excited with the idea of attending a class...it's been so long after I passed out of college....by God's grace, have been a good student thru my academic life...so, I will see how I do post these classes
4) Will do the OG 11, verbal & quant review again alongwith/after the course...then apply all learnings to solve OG 12...do more practice with LSAT material (RC & CR)
5) Do practice tests frequently...starting somewhere in the middle of the course.....if i hit my target score after 1 month of the course(max)...I will book the test
6) Last but NOT least, I will keep you (my angel) posted on my progress.
Pl suggest if the above approach looks ok...
Many thanks & God bless!!!
Regards,
Preeti
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: Stuck in the 600-650 range...need help!
Good analysis - and the best thing is, now you know how to continue to analyze future practice tests to see where you are making progress and where you still need to do some work! Your plan looks great - the big thing I want to talk about now is timing.
So, you can see from your test analysis that you're mismanaging your time. First, you need to know some things that will help you psychologically in dealing with the timing better. Second, you're going to need to develop some skills that will help you do that.
First, no matter how good you get, you will still have to guess on something like 4 to 7 questions in each section. You cannot change this. The only thing you can do is choose WHICH questions to gues. You don't want to be forced into making those guesses in a row at the end of the section, so choose the 4-7 hardest questions AS YOU SEE THEM throughout the section. Remind yourself that you CANNOT get to the point where you can answer everything given to you in 2 min - that's just not how the test works. You have to let those go.
Think of this as a tennis match, not a test. You're going to win some points and the other guy is going to win some points; you're not going to win them all, right? Your goal is to put yourself into position to win the LAST point. Translated, that means you have to put yourself in position to answer the last question - you have to have time to address it. Otherwise, you've lost the last point, and by extension the match. When the other guy hits a winner, don't go running after it so fast that you hit the fence and injure yourself, thereby hurting your chances on the later points. (Translation: don't go way over when the problem is too hard.)
Next, learn about how long one minute is without looking at a watch or stopwatch. If you don't have one already, buy yourself a stopwatch with lap timing capability (one comes with the course, if you sign up). When you go to do a set of problems, start the stopwatch but turn it over so you can't see the time. Every time you think one minute has gone by, push the lap button. When you're done, see how good you were - and whether you tend to over or underestimate. Get yourself to the point where you're within 15 seconds either way on a regular basis (that is, you can generally predict between 45 sec and 1min 15 sec).
Now, how do you use that when doing problems? If you're not on track by one minute*, make an educated guess and move on. (The general idea is that if you're not on track by the halfway mark, you're unlikely to figure out what's holding you back AND have time to do the whole problem in the 1 min you have left.)
* For SC, 1min is well beyond the half-way mark (we're supposed to average about 1m15s here), but you can almost always eliminate at least some choices on SC in that timeframe. Once you've got that "I'm around the 1min mark and I'm struggling" feeling, go through any remaining choices ONCE more. Pick one. Move on.
It takes time to get better at this - so don't expect that you can fix this in a couple of weeks.
So, you can see from your test analysis that you're mismanaging your time. First, you need to know some things that will help you psychologically in dealing with the timing better. Second, you're going to need to develop some skills that will help you do that.
First, no matter how good you get, you will still have to guess on something like 4 to 7 questions in each section. You cannot change this. The only thing you can do is choose WHICH questions to gues. You don't want to be forced into making those guesses in a row at the end of the section, so choose the 4-7 hardest questions AS YOU SEE THEM throughout the section. Remind yourself that you CANNOT get to the point where you can answer everything given to you in 2 min - that's just not how the test works. You have to let those go.
Think of this as a tennis match, not a test. You're going to win some points and the other guy is going to win some points; you're not going to win them all, right? Your goal is to put yourself into position to win the LAST point. Translated, that means you have to put yourself in position to answer the last question - you have to have time to address it. Otherwise, you've lost the last point, and by extension the match. When the other guy hits a winner, don't go running after it so fast that you hit the fence and injure yourself, thereby hurting your chances on the later points. (Translation: don't go way over when the problem is too hard.)
Next, learn about how long one minute is without looking at a watch or stopwatch. If you don't have one already, buy yourself a stopwatch with lap timing capability (one comes with the course, if you sign up). When you go to do a set of problems, start the stopwatch but turn it over so you can't see the time. Every time you think one minute has gone by, push the lap button. When you're done, see how good you were - and whether you tend to over or underestimate. Get yourself to the point where you're within 15 seconds either way on a regular basis (that is, you can generally predict between 45 sec and 1min 15 sec).
Now, how do you use that when doing problems? If you're not on track by one minute*, make an educated guess and move on. (The general idea is that if you're not on track by the halfway mark, you're unlikely to figure out what's holding you back AND have time to do the whole problem in the 1 min you have left.)
* For SC, 1min is well beyond the half-way mark (we're supposed to average about 1m15s here), but you can almost always eliminate at least some choices on SC in that timeframe. Once you've got that "I'm around the 1min mark and I'm struggling" feeling, go through any remaining choices ONCE more. Pick one. Move on.
It takes time to get better at this - so don't expect that you can fix this in a couple of weeks.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
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