Struggling to improve quant

[yoosar]

Hi there – I’d like some advice on my follow-up plan. I just took the GMAT for the first time last week and scored a 640. Here is how my preparation went:

CAT 1: 7/2/15 – Q 39 / V 31 / 580
CAT 2: 8/16/15 – IR 4 / Q 36 / V 35 / 600
CAT 3: 8/30/15 – IR 3 / Q 39 / V 32 / 590
CAT 4: 10/03/15 – IR 5 / Q 39 / V 37 / 630
CAT 5: 10/17/15 – IR 5 / Q 32 / V 35 / 560 [I had a major timing issue on CAT 5]
GMAC Prep: 10/31/15 – IR 6 / Q 41 / V 38 / 640
GMAT: 11/11/15 – IR 2 / Q 39 / V 39 / 640

As you can see, any improvements in my score have been driven by improvement in verbal while my math score has stayed fairly consistent. I’m frustrated that my math score has not improved through the months of preparation. I’m even more at a loss since I have always performed stronger in math than verbal -- on the SATs and throughout academic coursework.

At this point, I’m not sure I should take the exam again. I’ve gone through all the prep materials and practice GMAT questions. I’ve reviewed all my previous CATs in detail, and identified areas of weakness throughout my preparation. I narrowed my weaknesses to ratios, rates and work, and statistics, so I focused on recognizing the problem types I could safely pursue or just guess on toward the end of my preparation.

I’ve also worked on timing quite a bit, which I struggled with in CAT 5 the most. I took some time between CAT 5 and the GMAC test to improve my timing. I realized that I needed to recognize problems that took too long once I identified my weaknesses. Still overall, the average time I spend on wrong answers is still about 10 seconds less than on the right questions (both under 2 minutes on average).

That all said, my target score was 680. With such little improvement in quant, I’m wondering if there is anything I should be doing differently that might make a difference. I have taken upper level calculus, statistics, economics, and finance courses – so I know I’m capable of the quantitative work an MBA program demands. I’m worried that my quant score does not demonstrate that.

By the way, should I be worried about the IR 2 score given my lower quant score? Everything I’ve read is that IR is still not making a big difference in admissions – but to what extent is that still unimportant?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[StaceyKoprince]

I’m even more at a loss since I have always performed stronger in math than verbal -- on the SATs and throughout academic coursework.

This is the first clue, actually. I've heard lots of "good at math in school" people complain about not performing well on the GMAT, and there's actually a reason why.

If you try to take the GMAT as an "academic" math test, you will not do as well as you could. The GMAT is a business decision-making test more than it is a math test. Read this:
http://tinyurl.com/executivereasoning

and this:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -the-gmat/

Start a reply to me and tell me what you think after reading those. Have you been approaching the test (and your studies) in that way? Or have you been costing yourself points by hanging onto the "old school" way of doing math?

Read this, too:
http://tinyurl.com/2ndlevelofgmat
Think about how what you've been doing does and doesn't match up with that and how you may need to change your approach accordingly.

Then, use the below to analyze your most recent MPrep CATs (this should take you a minimum of 1 hour):
http://tinyurl.com/analyzeyourcats

Based on all of that, figure out your strengths and weaknesses as well as any ideas you have for what you think you should do. Then come back here and tell us; we'll tell you whether we agree and advise you further. (Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Your analysis should include a discussion of your buckets - you'll understand what that means when you read the last article. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!)

It's good that your school record shows lots of upper-level quant classes. Assuming that you earned good grades, schools will take notice.

The IR section is still not very important, but a score of 2 may raise an eyebrow. We've been telling people to aim to break the mean (which is about a 4) - so aim for a 5 (or higher). Did you do any prep for the IR section? What study materials do you have access to?

[yoosar]

First off, thank you for reviewing my post.

Start a reply to me and tell me what you think after reading those. Have you been approaching the test (and your studies) in that way? Or have you been costing yourself points by hanging onto the "old school" way of doing math?

I read those articles after I took my 4th CAT in which I experienced major timing problems. Reading both articles helped me change my attitude toward the test. I need to actively remember to approach the test in this way. , I still sometimes get stumped on questions that I "should" be able to solve. This often times happens when I make a calculation error somewhere - so low hanging fruit there.

Here's my assessment of my CAT results.
Bucket 1 - strengths
Geometry
Number properties
Overlapping sets
FDPs
Algebra

Bucket 2 - priorities
Rates and work (efficiency)
Ratios (careless mistakes)
Consecutive integers (careless mistakes)
Algebraic translations (careless mistakes)
Digits (holes - I get stuck on the abstract questions that ask about the value of a hundreds/units digit etc)

Buckets 3 - Ugh
Combinatorics
Weighted averages

I ended up deciding to take the test again after speaking with some counselors. My strategy for the next three weeks will be to focus on bucket 2. I gave up on bucket 3 already when I took the test the first time. I need to really reduce the careless mistakes so that I can use some more time on the other problems where efficiency is my challenge.

Question - I noticed that the detailed explanations on navigator are limited to the main OG. I have completed almost all the questions in the OG (I have the 2013 version). When I was working from the Quant Review guide (the slim green book by GMAC), I noticed there were no explanations on navigator. The explanations by Mprep are so much more helpful to me than the ones provided in the guides. Are there many new questions with explanations by Mprep on the new OG?

Last question... when I took the test the first time, I sent my scores to my target schools. My score on the second test will not be automatically sent to my target schools, right? I don't plan to cancel my score right away (unless I completely bomb it) so I can think about whether I should update my schools or not. I don't want to deal with the stress of deciding in two minutes whether to report the score or not.

Thanks again.

[StaceyKoprince]

I still sometimes get stumped on questions that I "should" be able to solve.

And you always will. It's really important to accept that. The goal here is not to be able to answer everything that you think you should be able to answer. Sometimes you are totally prepared and you have the best presentation and you've done all of the right research...and the client doesn't take your recommendation or awards the contract to another company or whatever. Sometimes, life sucks. Be able to brush it off and move on to another, better opportunity.

Rates and work (efficiency). Try this (for all story problems, actually):

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... them-real/
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... ms-part-1/

Ratios (careless mistakes)
Consecutive integers (careless mistakes)
Algebraic translations (careless mistakes)

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -the-gmat/

Digits (holes - I get stuck on the abstract questions that ask about the value of a hundreds/units digit etc)

Ugh. Put that in bucket 3. You'll probably see 0 or 1 on the real test. Not worth your study time or aggravation.

Re: Navigator, there are no explanations for the "supplemental" OGs (the ones that are quant-only or verbal-only). We have started to upload solutions for the questions that are new to the latest big OG (2016 edition), but I think we only have about 30 uploaded so far. We're hoping to have another probably 10 up by the end of the year and then (once crazy-busy season is over) we'll be able to increase our production rate a bit. I wish they'd publish the new books in like March. It'd make things much easier for us!

If you are looking for new practice problems and want to buy the new OG for that reason, then you'll have some new explanations in Navigator. But I wouldn't buy the new book for that reason - there aren't enough new solutions to justify it. (Unless you can find a used version. But that might be hard, since it was only published for the first time in June.)

You can also try searching the web for explanations from the supplemental OGs. We do have some old archived forums that may include some of those problems - they've been locked for years, since GMAC requested that the problems no longer be posted online, but you can still read them, and some of the problems in the supplemental guides are still from that time and are likely to have been discussed way back then.

Oh, I just got to your last paragraph. Okay, there are some things you need to know.

First, schools will have access to ALL scores on your record. But MBA* programs really only care about your highest score. They don't actually check all the scores. Instead, they wait until they know who they want to admit, or interview, or put on the wait list. If your application makes it that far, then they just verify that you really did get the score you reported on your application. They're not going to change their mind at that point just because you also have a lower score on record. (They do it this way because they're not going to waste time verifying the scores of 100% of applicants. They're just going to check the 10% or 20% that they want to admit. And they're really just verifying - it's extremely rare for someone's self-reported scores not to match their official record.)

Next, you are ONLY allowed to cancel in that first 2 minutes. If you don't cancel then, you cannot cancel later. So we recommend that you know exactly what kind of score you'd keep vs. cancel before you go in. So let's talk about that.

GMAT: 11/11/15 – IR 2 / Q 39 / V 39 / 640

If you score 640+ obviously keep the score. If you score <640 BUT your Q or IR scores increase, also keep that score. If everything goes down, feel free to cancel if that makes you more comfortable. (But if you're going for an MBA*, you really don't need to bother canceling; see earlier. So there's no true stress to that decision unless you just stress yourself out over it.

*This could be different for PhD programs; you'd have to check with the individual programs.

[yoosar]

Hi Stacey,
Thanks for all your advice! Thinking through some problems as stories certainly helps me understand logically what to do next. Thank you!

One last follow up question...

First, schools will have access to ALL scores on your record. But MBA* programs really only care about your highest score. They don't actually check all the scores. Instead, they wait until they know who they want to admit, or interview, or put on the wait list. If your application makes it that far, then they just verify that you really did get the score you reported on your application.

This is confusing to me. So when you elect to "send" your scores to a school - the school gets access too all tests you have taken from the date the score is checked? I assumed that schools would get a report of all the tests you have taken from that date.

[nicolec646]

Dear instructors,

Please kindly give me some advice:
I scored 48 during my first test. Since then, I have practiced over 1000 math problems from OG, OV, and other sources, and have practiced over 30+ exams. I've also made correction and reviewed concepts. I recently took another test in Nov....Tragically, I still got 48!

I had some timing issue for the last 10 questions. No matter how many problems I practice, there are still some that I have absolutely no idea how to approach them.

How can I apply my knowledge to challenging problems? Is there a SOP?
Besides practicing my pace, what else can I do to improve my math score to 51 ?
How many problems should I practice per day?


Greatly appreciate you help!

[StaceyKoprince]

Hi, Nicole - please start your own thread. It's too hard for me to discuss two different "cases" in the same thread - I need to keep track of the history, strengths and weaknesses, etc, and I can't do that while going back and forth between two students. Thanks!

Yoosar, they get access to your record in an online database (they don't actually get a piece of paper in the mail). Some schools have built this online database into their application system, so that when you fill out your application and give them your personally identifying info, the system will pull up your results and electronically "attach" them to your file. If schools do this, you'll actually see it as you fill out the application. Others haven't done this, so someone has to sit down at a computer and look up student records at some point in the application process.

Either way, the admissions officers are most interested in your highest score - that's what they use to help make their decision. Even if you have multiple scores (and some are lower), they don't care that you once had that lower score. They care that you studied and achieved whatever highest score you achieved. (Of course, if you never achieved a score that that school would consider "good enough," then they'll take that into account. But if that's true, then it doesn't matter whether you took it once or 5 times.)