simple past and past perfect

[mindadze]

In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Iliad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

(A) his translation of the Iliad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced

(B) his translation of the Iliad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced

(C) his translation of the Iliad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as

(D) translating the Iliad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as

(E) translating the Iliad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it

OA B

Hey Ron,

We have enough details to derive the correct answer, but still I want to use this problem to refer to the issue discussed during the Study Hall.

Pope is the actual doer of "translation". Would not it be more appropriate to use "translating" rather than "translation"?

I understand that the only answer choices that use "translating" are (D) and (E) and in both there is an error of reference - translation not writing Iliad took 7 years. This means that this particular error of logic and meaning weights more than the preference of using "translating" over using "translation"?

Thank you.

[tim]

we do not need a "doer" if we are using "translation" as a noun..

[davetzulin]

(B) his translation of the Iliad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced

(D) translating the Iliad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as


i did not eliminate D because of the appositive, instead I eliminated it because I thought "until completion" was not idiomatic vs. to complete.

in any case, how do we distinguish that "a work that" is a simple appositive instead of an "absolute phrase"? because if it is an absolute phrase then it need not touch anything in the previous clause. Is it because an absolute phrase must describe or be the consequence of the previous clause and in this case it is not?

[tim]

Your approach to eliminating D is a good one. You could also have eliminated it because of the inappropriate "it"..

I would say the distinction between an appositive and an absolute phrase is not particularly relevant. You just need to make sure every modifier modifies the correct thing. In most cases this will be clear without worrying about the particular label to attach to the modifier..

[mcmebk]

Your approach to eliminating D is a good one. You could also have eliminated it because of the inappropriate "it"..

I would say the distinction between an appositive and an absolute phrase is not particularly relevant. You just need to make sure every modifier modifies the correct thing. In most cases this will be clear without worrying about the particular label to attach to the modifier..

Hi Instructor

From other posts, I have learned that there are two similar types of appositive: when it is a conceptual noun and when it is not.

When it is a conceptual noun, it represents the whole action; and when it is a non-conceptual noun, it represents the noun that is immediately adjacent to it.

In this case, A WORK is certainly a conceptual noun, and I wonder why it should not be modifying the action "Alexander Pope began translating..."?

Analogy: USA government launched its 60th satellite this year, an effort to become dominant in the space competition.

Thank you in advance for your patient reading and inspiring explanations.

[tim]

i'm not sure that the distinction you're describing is relevant. in general, you need to find a noun for the appositive to describe. your example doesn't seem to be correct; does it come from a correct GMAT problem?

[mcmebk]

i'm not sure that the distinction you're describing is relevant. in general, you need to find a noun for the appositive to describe. your example doesn't seem to be correct; does it come from a correct GMAT problem?

Hi Tim thank you for answering my post.

Sorry if I did not make myself understood - What I am trying to say is that: you said D can be eliminated because the appositive "a work" here modifies the noun "Liad", but Ron commented in other posts before that if the appositive is an abstract noun, then it is an appositive that describes the idea of the previous clause.

Since "a work" is certainly an abstract noun, and if that is true, it presents the whole clause "...started translating..." instead of the noun that is precedent to it.

An example from PrepGMAT:

The state has proposed new rules that would set minimum staffing levels for nurses, rules intended to ensure that at least one nurse is assigned for every four patients put through triage in a hospital emergency room.
 
A. rules intended to ensure that at least one nurse is assigned for every four patients put through triage in a hospital emergency room
B. rules with the intent of ensuring one nurse at least to be assigned for every four patients to be put through triage in a hospital emergency room
C. rules intending to ensure at least one nurse is assigned for every four patients in a hospital emergency room put through triage
D. with the intent of ensuring that at least one nurse should be assigned for every four patients in a hospital emergency room that are put through triage
E. and this is intended to ensure one nurse at least to be assigned for every four patients put through triage in a hospital emergency room

Here, "Rule" is an abstract noun, and it presents the whole idea of the previous clause, not the noun "nurses" that is next to it.

D, E are wrong for many reasons, but in my humble opinion, the way how the appositive is written is not one of them.

Please kindly comment and correct me, thank you.

[tim]

i disagree that "rule" and "work" are abstract nouns, but more importantly i disagree that the distinction is relevant. again i maintain that an appositive needs to describe a noun - whether an "idea" as Ron said or an "abstract" or non-abstract noun. in your example, the appositive clearly refers to "rules" - it even starts by repeating the word "rules"!

i also maintain that the example you provided on July 1 seems incorrect, and i ask again whether it comes from an actual GMAT problem..

[mcmebk]

i disagree that "rule" and "work" are abstract nouns, but more importantly i disagree that the distinction is relevant. again i maintain that an appositive needs to describe a noun - whether an "idea" as Ron said or an "abstract" or non-abstract noun. in your example, the appositive clearly refers to "rules" - it even starts by repeating the word "rules"!

i also maintain that the example you provided on July 1 seems incorrect, and i ask again whether it comes from an actual GMAT problem..

Hi Tim

I think very possibly the reason why "work" can only mean "lliad", not "began translating..." is because, as you said, not a conceptual word here.

I read your post which says that an appositive needs to describe a noun, I almost thought so until I saw an OG question (I will only post the correct sentence and hope that does not violate the rule here):

In 2000, a mere two dozen products accounted for half the increase in spending on prescription drugs, a phenomenon that is explained not just by the fact that drugs are becoming more expensive but also by the fact that doctors are writing many more prescriptions for higher-cost drugs.

As you see here, the appositive "Phenomenon" is an abstract noun and it modifies the whole concept of the sentence "a mere two dozen products accounted for half the increase in spending on prescription drugs", instead of the noun that is close to it "drugs".

I think this should be a good example but it just makes me more confused.

[tim]

i interpret "phenomenon" to modify "increase", which is entirely consistent with our idea of an appositive modifying a noun..

[visitdhiraj]

Hi Ron,

Is the word "it" correctly used in Choice D.

I know that the choice D is incorrect, but I just want to check about this pronoun whether it is correctly used in this context.

Thanks

Dhiraj

[RonPurewal]

Hi Ron,

Is the word "it" correctly used in Choice D.

I know that the choice D is incorrect, but I just want to check about this pronoun whether it is correctly used in this context.

Thanks

Dhiraj

In this context, the pronoun shouldn't be there at all, so there's no such thing as "correctly used" vs. "incorrectly used". It shouldn't be used.

It's like this:
Here is the song that you're going to sing. (correct)
Here is the song that you're going to sing it. (incorrect)
Again, there's no meaningful question of whether it is "used correctly" -- it shouldn't be there in the first place.

[supratim7]

past perfect is used when you want to express the relation between two events in the past, specifying that one occurred before the other. The event in the past perfect occurred before.

In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Iliad, a work that had taken him seven years to complete


-------a work that had taken him 7 years --------1713 began the translation

If you look at this in time the sentence says that Alexander Pope had completed the work before starting the translation.

yes. nicely done.

In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Iliad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

(E) translating the Iliad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it

I guess, we can't rule out (E) likewise, right?
(assuming that we don't know that don't who completed Iliad, it could well be Alex Pope)

Thank you :)

[RonPurewal]

I guess, we can't rule out (E) likewise, right?
(assuming that we don't know that don't who completed Iliad, it could well be Alex Pope)

Thank you :)

SC problems don't require much knowledge, but anything that's considered universal common knowledge (in Western countries, at least) is fair game. E.g., it can be reasonably assumed that random test takers will know that the Bible, Torah, Qur'an, Iliad, Aeneid, Odyssey, and so on are ancient works.

This is also implied by "... his translation of the Iliad". If Pope had written the original work, the sentence wouldn't be written that way; it would say something like "a translation of his Iliad" instead.

[chughbrajesh]

In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it

Does not B have a parallelism issue? next to 'that' is a verb 'took' then second that we have a modifier then later shows up the verb at the end?