SANAM pronouns

by **sankar** Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:40 am

I came across this sentence that said,

until now, none of my friends have been able to crack the problem.

and the answer had the have replaced with "has" ( singular)

Going by the SANAM pronoun section in Manhattan SC guide is not the above sentence a plural and consequently "have" the right usage ?

Thanks

Sankar

by **dbernst** Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:18 am

Sankar, Good question. In this sentence, "none" actually means "not one." Since the sentence is differentiating among the actions of individual friends, the correct verb form is singular: not one of my friends has been able to crack the problem.

-dan

by **sankar** Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:28 pm

Thankyou Dan !

So when does "none" mean no one ?

here does none refer to no one again ?
"none of them have ever been to the Europe "

also, could you give an example of a sentence where "have' is used along with "None "

Thanks again !

Sankar

by **dbernst** Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:41 pm

Sankar,

Actually a widespread grammatical debate exists between none as the singular "not one" and none as the plural "not any." Until I personally read about or come across a question on an offical GMAT using none as plural, I will consider none singular. However, if you are a grammarian (or just have some time to kill), feel free to check out the following link - just one of many on the Net.

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/a ... 3/9903.htm

-dan

by **Guest** Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:36 pm

SC question No. 17 in OG-11 uses "None" as singular.

Nauman

by **rfernandez** Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:08 pm

True, but interestingly, determining its number is not essential to finding the correct answer.

Rey

by **StaceyKoprince** Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:58 pm

And that actually supports Dan's point - he said that he will consider "none" singular on the test UNLESS he sees an official question that uses "none" as plural. :)

by H Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:13 am

Hi Dan,
I have read the site you posted.
However, I don't get what "not any" really means.
For instance, one of the examples on that site is:
None of my friends is going with me.
I thought that it was correct because the sentence wants to express that 0 of my friends is going with me.
Not one of my friend is going with me.
Not any of my friend are going with me.
What is the difference?
Thanks in advance.

by **JonathanSchneider** Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:30 pm

Describing "none" as "not any" is merely a way of saying that the word "none" can imply plurality.

Think of the sentence: None of my friends have come home. Would this sentence be more correct as: "None of my friends has come home?" I wouldn't choose it. Personally, I think the issue with #17 in OG11 is that the verb is not next to the plural noun in the of-phrase. As a result, it can more easily connect back to "none," and the of-phrase can bee seen as a middleman. I'd love to hear some other thoughts on this.

by H Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:08 am

schneiderfineart@gmail.co Wrote:Describing "none" as "not any" is merely a way of saying that the word "none" can imply plurality.

Think of the sentence: None of my friends have come home. Would this sentence be more correct as: "None of my friends has come home?" I wouldn't choose it. Personally, I think the issue with #17 in OG11 is that the verb is not next to the plural noun in the of-phrase. As a result, it can more easily connect back to "none," and the of-phrase can bee seen as a middleman. I'd love to hear some other thoughts on this.

Hi Jonathan, so you think that the subject-verb agreement of "none of X" should be based on X?

by **JonathanSchneider** Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:50 pm

Yes, H, that is the idea behind the SANAM pronouns.

by **vscid** Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:29 pm

schneiderfineart@gmail.co Wrote:Yes, H, that is the idea behind the SANAM pronouns.

so why does the first post (by sankar) needs to have 'has' ??

by **JonathanSchneider** Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:24 am

It's a good question. First of all, I haven't seen a source for the original sentence posted, so I wouldn't pull my hair out over it. My point in my last post was just that there could be a sentence when the meaning of "none" would be "not any" (plural), taking up the form of the "of" phrase. But I'll default to Dan on this issue until I see an actual GMAT problem using "none" otherwise.

by **vscid** Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:55 am

Continuing the same discussion, is there a preference here ? :

No one was shocked by the company's bankruptcy.

Nobody was shocked by the company's bankruptcy.

by **JonathanSchneider** Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:53 am

It's an interesting question. I would expect the GMAT to use "no one" rather than "nobody," but this is not a rule. "No one" just sounds a bit more formal. In either case, you would use each term as a singular.

SANAM pronouns

SANAM pronouns

no one v/s nobody