Salt deposits and moisture

[RonPurewal]

Hi, instructors,

Could u explain what's wrong with D?

Thanks very much!

if you're going to use a "that"/"those" construction, then the modifier MUST be DIRECTLY attached to "that"/"those".

e.g.
the population of argentina is more than ten times that of uruguay.
--> CORRECT
note that the modifier "of uruguay" is attached directly to "that" (a relative pronoun that stands for "population").


the number of people in argentina is more than ten times as large as that is in uruguay.
--> INCORRECT
you aren't allowed to split up "that of uruguay".

note that this single consideration will actually eliminate all of (c), (d), (e).

[rx_11]

Hi, instructors,

Could u explain what's wrong with D?

Thanks very much!

if you're going to use a "that"/"those" construction, then the modifier MUST be DIRECTLY attached to "that"/"those".

e.g.
the population of argentina is more than ten times that of uruguay.
--> CORRECT
note that the modifier "of uruguay" is attached directly to "that" (a relative pronoun that stands for "population").


the number of people in argentina is more than ten times as large as that is in uruguay.
--> INCORRECT
you aren't allowed to split up "that of uruguay".

note that this single consideration will actually eliminate all of (c), (d), (e).

Hi, Ron

I have one more question with choice D.

If we elimilate "did", is the "those" in D correct? I mean, for example, is the usage of "those" in this sentense correct? "Frank's build, like those of Mary and Tim, is broad and muscular."

I ask this because I found that there is a split between "the civilizations" and "those". It seems to reflect that we cannot use "those" here and we must repeat the things "those" refers. Is that correct?

[ChrisB]

Hi,

D is still incorrect because "those" has no antecedent in D. The antecedent is the "ancient civilizations," but these only show up in other answer choices. This problem exposes a trick that is commonly played on the GMAT whereby a pronoun, such as those, is used in some answer choices when it's antecedent is in the other answer choices. If you read through the answer choices quickly without checking those you may not notice the error.

If we elimilate "did", is the "those" in D correct? I mean, for example, is the usage of "those" in this sentense correct? "Frank's build, like those of Mary and Tim, is broad and muscular."

It's still not correct because there isn't another structure like this in the non-underlined portion of the sentence. There is an excavation in pakistan, but not an ancient civilzation in pakistan. Therefore, if you eliminated "did" from the sentence, "those" would sound as if it were replacing the noun excavations. That's not what the meaning conveys so that is also incorrect.

Thanks,
Chris

[zcy9079]

thanks

[GracePaton]

[deleted]

[RonPurewal]

grace --
i noticed that this is your first post.
welcome!
but please read the forum rules: read-before-you-post-general-verbal-folder-guidelines-t2718.html

your post violated 2 of the rules:
1) you posted a new problem. according to the rules, you need to make a new thread if you post a new problem.
2) you posted a problem from a banned source ("1000SC"). please check the list of disallowed sources before you post; this will save a lot of trouble on both ends.

thanks.

[nikhil.chhabra]

While I purely agree with Ron's explanation and examples, I am still a litle confused about the application of the specific rule to the case in hand.

can you please explain whether the rule applies for comparisions as well?

eg: I ran better than he. (or) I ran better than he did/ran.

comparisons may be decided by the usual conventions of parallelism.

in your example -- which i will change by replacing the pronouns with specific names, so that we can avoid the awkward issue of pronoun case (which will absolutely not be tested on the gmat) -- either of those constructions is fine:

francis ran faster than xavier.
francis ran faster than xavier ran.
francis ran faster than did xavier.
francis ran faster than xavier did.

all parallel. the repetition in the second one would likely be considered fairly awkward, though; that's the point of replacing "ran" with the helping verb "did" in the third and fourth examples.

Hi Ron,

I am still confused why option D and E are wrong in this question.

Regards,
Nikhil

[RonPurewal]

I am still confused why option D and E are wrong in this question.

Regards,
Nikhil

the easiest way to eliminate those two choices is to note that the pronoun "those" doesn't have anything to stand for. (it is clearly intended to mean "civilizations", but, unfortunately, the only relevant word that's actually present is the singular "civilization".)

the constructions with those + verb, at the end of these choices, are also incorrect; these have been explained amply in the preceding posts on this thread.

[zhongshanlh]

Hi,Ron,expert, please help.
i get totally confused about the comparison and the "as" here.
as you said in the previous post in this thread:
"if you have a parallel construction involving tensed verbs, and the tensed verb is EXACTLY THE SAME in both (or all, if there are more than 2) parts of the construction, then you may omit the verb in all but the first part. "
then you also said that "comparisons may be decided by the usual conventions of parallelism."
my question: though i know that in a comparison, "as" must be followed by a clause (with a subject and verb),why cann't i regard the sentence"As her brother, Ava aced the test." as the omitted version of the sentence"As her brother did, Ava aced the test."? i think we have two parallel constructions and the tensed verbs are indeed exactly the same(both are "aced the test"),don't the rules go contrary with each other?
i am also confused that are the words "as" in the OG question and in the sentence"As her brother did, Ava aced the test." different from each other(i think both "as" are conjunctions and both are used as the "Comparison As")? and if so, does the difference lead to this problem?
plz help

[thanghnvn]

Ron, pls, confirm my following thinking.

it is preferable to keep the verb in the second half of the comparison even when there is no problem of clearity.
for example
I learn English better than he dose
is preferable to
I learn English better than he.

I already see one gmatprep question which test this point and in which we have to choose between an answer choice which has "dose" and another choice which has no "dose"

is my thinking correct?

[RonPurewal]

Ron, pls, confirm my following thinking.

it is preferable to keep the verb in the second half of the comparison even when there is no problem of clearity.
for example
I learn English better than he dose
is preferable to
I learn English better than he.

thanghnvn, please stop posting the same question on multiple threads. if you continue to do so, we will ignore and/or delete the repeated questions. thank you in advance.

the above is not true; the extra verb is only necessary when it removes some ambiguity.

I already see one gmatprep question which test this point

do you have a citation / link to that question?

[zhongshanlh]

it seems that my questions was ignored above, could someone help me?
thanks in advance

[RonPurewal]

Hi,Ron,expert, please help.
i get totally confused about the comparison and the "as" here.
as you said in the previous post in this thread:
"if you have a parallel construction involving tensed verbs, and the tensed verb is EXACTLY THE SAME in both (or all, if there are more than 2) parts of the construction, then you may omit the verb in all but the first part. "
then you also said that "comparisons may be decided by the usual conventions of parallelism."
my question: though i know that in a comparison, "as" must be followed by a clause (with a subject and verb),why cann't i regard the sentence"As her brother, Ava aced the test." as the omitted version of the sentence"As her brother did, Ava aced the test."? i think we have two parallel constructions and the tensed verbs are indeed exactly the same(both are "aced the test"),don't the rules go contrary with each other?
i am also confused that are the words "as" in the OG question and in the sentence"As her brother did, Ava aced the test." different from each other(i think both "as" are conjunctions and both are used as the "Comparison As")? and if so, does the difference lead to this problem?
plz help

the "as" that you're discussing here is different -- it MUST be followed by an explicit clause.
there's no such thing as an "implied clause"; if you take away a verb, then you have just a noun. if you want something to be a clause, you have to have an actual clause.

the reason this isn't a problem in the question at hand is that we're dealing with a fundamentally different form of "as".
this is the construction at the same time as...
other constructions that work in the same way are
as ADJ as...
as ADV as...
these constructions work both with nouns (i am as nerdy as my wife) and with clauses (i am going to manufacture more units this year than i did last year).
this is why the omission is ok: even though you're transforming the element from a clause into a noun, you are still covered, because that particular construction works equally well with either clauses or nouns.

[skumar94]

the easiest way to eliminate those two choices is to note that the pronoun "those" doesn't have anything to stand for. (it is clearly intended to mean "civilizations", but, unfortunately, the only relevant word that's actually present is the singular "civilization".)

Hello Ron,
So if I wanted to correct the option D;from reading the post I understand that those+ verb is wrong.I understand that if I eliminate did, the usage of those referring to a singular antecendent is still wrong(as explained in OG 12).But,if I still wish to correct this sentence, what relative pronoun instead of "those" can we use to correct D,after correcting the verb issue?

[RonPurewal]

the easiest way to eliminate those two choices is to note that the pronoun "those" doesn't have anything to stand for. (it is clearly intended to mean "civilizations", but, unfortunately, the only relevant word that's actually present is the singular "civilization".)

Hello Ron,
So if I wanted to correct the option D;from reading the post I understand that those+ verb is wrong.I understand that if I eliminate did, the usage of those referring to a singular antecendent is still wrong(as explained in OG 12).But,if I still wish to correct this sentence, what relative pronoun instead of "those" can we use to correct D,after correcting the verb issue?

i'm going to leave this question unanswered, because it's irrelevant to the gmat.

you don't have to be able to rewrite the sentences; you just have to be able to identify what is correct and what is incorrect. your task stops there.