Roi from GMAT vs. GRE Webinar! Thanks in advance Stacey!

[RoiM693]

Hi Stacey, thanks again for a wonderfully helpful session tonight.

My scores:

GRE:
Verbal - 154 - 63rd percentile
Quant - 162 - 83rd percentile
Total - 316 (Comparable to 620 on GMAT)

GMAT
Integrated Reasoning - 5 - 52 percentile
Quant - 44 - 63 percentile
Verbal - 41 - 93 percentile
Total - 690 (87 percentile)

Going through my mistakes on the tests, it seems like there was a lot of room for improvement on the GRE vocab questions (I got 5 vocab questions wrong on both sections) and it also seems pretty accessible to just study a bunch of GRE vocab (as opposed to relearning math rules/ strategy).

On the flip side, I did technically get a somewhat significantly better score on the GMAT (690 vs. comparable 620 score). But also took the GMAT after the GRE (so perhaps was better prepared?). I could technically spend my efforts studying the GMAT math as well.

In terms of schools I'm looking at, all accept both fairly equally (except Berkeley) and none of the dual/ joint degrees I'm looking at require the GRE either. So quite open to both tests!


Thanks again - you rock!

[StaceyKoprince]

Hello! Fun session last night.

Okay, this is so much better - it was too hard to look at the data in a chat window. :)

Hmm, given what you've shown me, I'd actually stick with the GMAT. You aren't that much lower than you need to be on quant and your overall score is better.

You want to be 45+ on quant, ideally 47+ for the very top schools. You're already at 44.

Plus, Berkeley prefers the GMAT and you want to apply there. If it were me, I'd be buying my GMAT books today. :)

(Question: you say you took the GMAT after the GRE, so maybe you were better prepared. Did you prepare more specifically for the GMAT than you did for the GRE? It doesn't really matter, because you still hit 690 and are so close on the quant that I'd still say you might as well stick with that test. :)

Also, are you thinking about going into consulting or banking for your internship or after b-school? If so, I would also lean towards the GMAT, as those kinds of companies ask for your GMAT scores during the interview process.

[RoiM693]

Ah, Stacey! Your response is so wonderfully helpful. You really are a godsend in this process. Seriously though, you rock.

I think you're totally right and will start studying for the GMAT ASAP. I didn't get a good sense from my practice test what the primary things I should focus my studies on would be (which is perhaps why I felt intimated by the GMAT). Although I didn't do ANY prep before either test, which makes me fairly confident that some studying could boost my score significantly. It seems like I mostly want to focus on the IR and Quant section on the GMAT though.

Do you have any recommendations on how to go about studying? It seems like there are a lot of companies (Manhattan Prep, Magoosh, Kaplan, etc.) as well as a lot of approaches (online platforms, books, classes/ workshops) to choose from. How do you choose??

Probably not going into banking or consulting - I'm more into social entrepreneurship - but thats good to keep in mind!

[StaceyKoprince]

Do you have a sense already of whether you want to study on your own or take a class? If not, this may help you decide:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... or-part-1/

If you take a class, just follow that syllabus and keep in touch with your teacher.

If you study on your own, you'll have to develop your own study plan. Start here:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... our-score/

Feel free to check your study plan with us here on the forums (or ask any questions you have as you're putting it together).

I also recommend that anyone read these two articles before starting:
http://tinyurl.com/executivereasoning
http://tinyurl.com/2ndlevelofgmat

And I actually recommend that you read those multiple times throughout your study. :)

[RoiM693]

These are great resources, thanks so much! I think I'm going to end up signing up for the Interact course on Manhattan Prep. But I'll be sure to check back with any questions about my study plans.


Thanks again Stacey. Seriously, I'm super impressed and grateful for your awesomeness.

[StaceyKoprince]

My pleasure. Good luck and keep in touch!

[RoiM693]

Hi Stacey,

Hope you're doing well. I'm writing you here because I'm finding myself somewhat flustered with the GMAT studying process and am hoping you can offer some advice.

As you saw from my initial scores, I got a fairly decent score on first practice CAT with the GMAC software (on 9/4/2014). It seemed at the time that it wouldn't take too much studying to get to my goal of 730.

Integrated Reasoning - 5
Quant - 44 - 63 percentile
Verbal - 41 - 93 percentile
Total - 690 (87 percentile)

I've since enrolled in the MGMAT Interact Quant Only course and have now taken two additional practice CATs with MGMAT. The 1st before starting to study (on 10/5/2014) and the 2nd during the recommended Week 6 of the course (on 10/26/2014). As you'll see from my scores below, I'm having a hard time reaching my initial score with the GMAC software.

MGMAT Practice CAT #1
Integrated Reasoning - 4.43
Quant - 37 - 40 percentile
Verbal - 37 - 83 percentile
Total - 620 (67 percentile)

Integrated Reasoning - 3.17
Quant - 43 - 56 percentile
Verbal - 37 - 83 percentile
Total - 660 (80 percentile)

Now granted, I did have a pretty major timing problem on the 1st CAT Quant section and accidentally didn't answer the very last question of the 2nd CAT Verbal and Quant sections, which could be deflating those scores, but I'm still surprised that I haven't once matched my initial score (from before I started studying!).

I did just spend some time going over the GMAC practice CAT I took back in September, and I definitely get the impression that the questions are MUCH easier than the one's I've been practicing through MGMAT. Do you know if perhaps MGMAT's questions and scoring methods are more rigorous then the GMAC software? Or maybe even more challenging then the GMAT test itself?

I'm currently signed up to take the actual test in two weeks so that I can still apply in Round II, but having not gotten any closer to my target score, I'm considering pushing that back a while to keep studying.


Apologies for the long message, but I'd really appreciate some advice!


Thanks a million, Stacey.

[StaceyKoprince]

The one thing that a practice test can never really replicate (relative to the real test) is the anxiety of knowing that, this time, it counts. That anxiety can lead you to bad decisions during the test, such as spending too long on some questions and rushing on others, or in general rushing on things you consider your strengths to try to reduce the time pressure on other problems (thereby opening yourself up to careless mistakes). And so on.

Our quant tends to be harder than GMATPrep and also tends to punish you more if you have some of those bad decision-making and timing habits. We can't hypnotize you into thinking that this practice test really counts, but we can still try to set you up for some of the bad reactions you might have when you really do take the actual test...and see whether you fall for them. :)

Verbal is strong for you, so any effect wouldn't be as pronounced - but your quant performance could also bleed over into verbal, because if you, for example, spend too much mental energy on stuff that you should be letting go, then you'll be more tired when you get to verbal and make more mistakes than normal.

So, what to do. You need to dive into the data and see what's going on:
http://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog/ ... ts-part-1/

In terms of which is most likely to reflect the real test - I've seen people closer to ours, closer to GMATPrep, in between...it's hard to tell unfortunately.

But here's what I think: if your drop in performance on our CAT specifically reveals the below, then you'd want to get this cleared up before you take the real test.

Major Issue: Timing issues tied to decision-making / mindset. You get sucked into some questions that you really should have cut off and that impacts you elsewhere in that section or later in the test (you rush and make a mistake, you get more mentally fatigued before the test is over, etc).

--> The flip (though less common) can happen, too: you're so nervous that you start rushing, finishing early and leaving a trail of careless mistakes in your wake. But I'm writing that for others reading this, as it sounds like your issue might be the one in the previous paragraph.

Anyway, back to the "sucked in" issue. On the real test, expect to feel that same pressure / have that same tendency because you know this one counts, and a part of you is going to want to default back to the "old school get everything right" mentality. The question is whether you can successfully suppress that mentality. :)

So go back, analyze using that article, and tell me what you think is going on.

[RoiM693]

Hey Stacey,

Thanks again for all of your feedback throughout this process. I read every word and used all of your suggestions. :-)

I just wanted to let you know that I took the official GMAT today and am overwhelmingly pleased with my score.

Unofficial score:
Quant - 50
Verbal - 44
Total - 770

I am quite surprised though, since I have NEVER scored above a 700 on any practice CAT that I've taken. I scored a 680 on my 3rd MGMAT CAT two weeks ago and a 690 on my 2nd GMAC CAT a week ago. It does make me wonder - is there any chance that the score I got on my unofficial report today is a mistake? Have you ever heard of anyone getting a drastically reduced score when the official score report is posted?

Perhaps its just my paranoia, but I thought I'd ask. In any case, thank you a TON for all of your suggestions/ feedback and to the entire Manhattan Prep team for everything you all do. I am so grateful and impressed.

[RoiM693]

Forgot to mention - I did get a 3 on the IR section, which I realize is not too great. Is that something that I need to care about? Or dare I ask, consider retaking the GMAT in order to improve?

[StaceyKoprince]

Wow!!! I'm super happy for you - congratulations!

(And I have never heard of someone getting a different official score, so I think you're safe. They say unofficial just to make sure / give themselves the leeway in case there is a mistake...but I've never heard of that happening.)

Now, for IR - you're applying right now, right? No, you don't need to re-take for IR. In a few years, IR will become more important, but the schools aren't using it much this year.

Good luck - let us know how applications go!

[RoiM693]

Thanks Stacey. I actually got my official score in this past weekend, and the results are all the same! Crazy...

I'm probably not applying this year, and honestly not sure about next year either, but I think I'm all GMAT'ed out for now. So an IR 3 will have to suffice!

Thank you SOOOO much for all of your help these last several months. All of you at on the Manhattan Prep team are seriously amazing. Rock on!

[StaceyKoprince]

You are very welcome! :)