Preparing for 2nd attempt at GMAT

[tomcanfieldjr]

My first attempt at the GMAT will be on the 30th. I've gone through all the MGMAT practice tests and I'm planning on taking the two GMAT Prep tests in the next two weeks. I know i'm looking ahead, but I'm also planning on taking it a second time after the 30th, probably in early December, just because I've heard that most people experience a significant jump in their scores the second time around.

I was wondering what is the recommended course of study after the first exam, in terms of getting ready for the second one? I will have exhausted all practice tests and I'm pretty close to completing all the questions in both the Quant and Verbal Guides, as well as the Official Guide. What is generally the next step?

[StaceyKoprince]

I hope you get the score you want on your first test, but I'm also glad that you're planning ahead. :)

Generally speaking, if you don't like your score on your first test, then you likely need to re-use the materials you have already been using, because you didn't learn everything that you needed to the first time around. Getting better is not about doing a bunch of new problems. It's about thoroughly analyzing the best problems you can get your hands on (OG, of course) so that you recognize what to do when you see something similar on the test. The one major difference is that you (hopefully) have a better sense of your strengths and weaknesses going into a re-take, so you can prioritize your study accordingly.

If you took the course, go get the hand-out from class 2 (you can download it from the Course Downloads page in your student center). That hand-out gives you 10 questions to ask yourself when reviewing problems. Have you been using these? If not, start doing it - this is how you thoroughly analyze the problems you're doing. Ask yourself these questions on every problem you do, including the ones you get right. In a 2-hour study period, spend about 30-40 minutes doing problems and the rest of the time reviewing. (Most of your learning comes from the review and analysis you do after trying the problem!)

FYI: the average score improvement from official test 1 to official test 2 is about 30 points. (That's for ALL test takers, not just MGMAT test takers.) So, it's some improvement, but not huge - not really statistically significant, actually. :)

Also, practice tests are very good for figuring out what your current scoring level is, but you don't get a lot better merely by taking a practice test. So consider saving one of those GMATPrep tests. Alternatively, You can still take both GMATPrep and MGMAT CATs with repeats as long as you follow a few guidelines to minimize the chance of artificially inflating your score via question repeats. First, anytime you see a problem that you remember (and this means: I know the answer or I'm pretty sure I remember the answer, not just "hmm, this looks vaguely familiar..."), immediately look at the timer and make yourself sit there for the full length of time for that question type. This way, you don't artificially give yourself more time than you should have. Second, think about whether you got this problem right the last time. If you did, get it right again this time. If you didn't, get it wrong again. If you *completely honestly* think that you would get it right this time around if it were a new question (even though you got it wrong last time) because you've studied that area and improved, then get it right this time.

Good luck - let us know how it goes!

[tomcanfieldjr]

Hello Stacey,

Thought I would follow up with you regarding my first attempt at the GMAT. I originally scheduled it for October 30th, but had to push it back to today, because of scheduling conflicts.

My unofficial score:
640
Quant 36 45%
Verbal 41 92%

Practice Tests in date order:
MGMAT 1 570 Q37 V31 (6/23)
MGMAT 2 580 Q35 V34 (7/18)
MGMAT 3 620 Q43 V33 (9/1)
MGMAT 4 590 Q37 V37 (9/15)
MGMAT 5 650 Q40 V38 (9/27)
MGMAT 6 620 Q39 V35 (10/11)
GMATPrep 1 600 Q39 V34 (10/18)
MGMAT 7 680* Q47 V35 (10/25)
* I reset this exam, but surprisingly I didn't get too many repeats, and didn't get any in the Quant section (or at least any that I remembered.) If I did see something familiar, I tried to answer it as if I hadn't seen if before.
GMATPrep 2 630 Q41 V35 (11/1)
GMATPrep 3 680* Q45 V38 (11/13)
* Again, reset this exam, didn't get too many repeats, followed what I did above if I did get any.

As far as my official exam goes, I was hoping for at least a 650 on my first attempt. The ranges of my practice exams were generally in this area and like I mentioned before, I was planning on taking it a second time anyway. To my surprise I scored extremely high on verbal, (high for me.) I never even approached 41 on the verbal on any of my practice tests, so I was definitely pleased with that. Unfortunately, I scored much lower than I expected on the quant. I was scoring consistently higher than 36 on most of my practice tests, so that was a big disappointment. In fact, it was my second lowest performance overall.

In terms of preparation, I took the MGMAT prep course in mid July, and that ran until mid September if I recall. I followed the study guide to a T, completing every assigment from the MGMAT books. Math was definitely my prime weakness, and it was suggested that I study math 70% of the time and leave 30% of the time for verbal. I was scared that I would lose some of my verbal, so I stuck to 50-50, (may explain my increase in verbal.) Timing was another weakness, as I never managed to completely finish an exam, but I did get better throughout, to the point where on my final GMATPrep test I only had to guess on two at the very end of both quant and verbal. Also, I know it's not ideal, but I have been taking an accounting course that has been occupying a significant amount of my time.

As far as my day to day practice, I would go to the official guide and do 10 sets of Problem Solving, 10 sets of Data Sufficiency, 1 passage of Reading Comp, 3 Criticial reasoning questions, and 5 sentence correction questions. I would do this all timed, and would make sure to take time to review everything, (although of course I could do a better job of this.)

As far as the actual exam, I was anxious heading into it, but I felt real good after my two essays. I was a little bit shaky on the quant starting off. I know I missed some easy ones right off the bat, and I think this weighed on me throughout the section. My timing started well, up until about midway through, where I found myself off about 6 minutes. Instead of just guessing on two or three, in order to catch up, I started rushing through the rest of it, wanting to make sure that I finished, so I know I botched some easy ones here as well.

As far as the verbal, I felt really good throughout. I was slightly behind but I was nailing answers left and right so I wasn't as flustered as I was during the quant. Towards the very end I had to rush on the last 5, but still I can't really complain about a 41.

Going forward, I'm wondering what the next step would be? Ideally, I would just start right up again and get after it in another month, but like I mentioned, I'm taking the accounting class (in order to provide a supplemental transcript for admissions purposes.) I've got about a month to go on that, so I wouldn't be able to devote all my time to the GMAT until then. As far as practice exams, I have exhausted everything, but I still have a fair amount of official guide problems left. I am also thinking about tutoring, and even though its costly, I think it may be worth it.

The positive that I am taking from this first attempt is that I think I have the verbal down. I honestly probably could do even better, as I was rushing slightly towards the end. My main concern is the quant, I just don't really know where to start with it. My ultimate goal is to get a 700. My dream school is Michigan, so considering the rest of my profile, I think a 700 or 690 may give me a shot.


Thanks for reading, and I would appreciate your thoughts.

[StaceyKoprince]

I started rushing through the rest of it, wanting to make sure that I finished, so I know I botched some easy ones here as well.

As it sounds like you already know, this is really not what you want to do in that situation. Instead of sacrificing 2 or 3 questions to catch up, you potentially sacrificed many - when you work too quickly on a question, you're more likely to get it wrong. That was probably responsible for a decent portion of the drop on the quant portion of your test.

On the other hand, great job on verbal! It's nice to know that you can get a great score on that section - it should take the pressure off for next time.

Here's another piece of good news: because you took the course, you're eligible for a free Post-Exam Assessment. This is a phone call with an instructor to figure out what went wrong and come up with a plan to re-take the test. You can figure out how long you should take (factoring in the accounting class) and what, specifically, you should do in that time. Send an email to studentservices@manhattangmat.com and request the Post-Exam Assessment (go do it right now to get the ball rolling!).

[tomcanfieldjr]

Hello Stacey,

I just got done with my second GMAT attempt and I must say I'm at a loss for words. Here is a quick rundown:

First of all, from what I heard, typically, you score higher on the second attempt just because you are more familiar with the test setup, and overall you are just less anxious. Certainly this is not the case for everyone, still I felt more confident on my way to the test center. My last two scores on practice tests, were two 710's, (one on MGMAT and the other GMATprep,) but here is the key: on the quant, I was in the 60% range, where as on the verbal i was in the high 80% to low 90% range. I figured if I could just come close to what I was doing on the practice tests, I would be set.

As I mentioned before, timing was a major issue on my first attempt, especially on the quant, and it was again an issue on my second attempt, however I did improve. After finishing the quant, I felt like I did awful, but thought to myself, that's how its supposed to feel, so I said forget about it, try to finish strong with the verbal, after all, this is your strength. Going through the verbal, I actually felt real good, and better than I had the last time. I even took the step of slacking off on the AWA, figuring I could at the minimum save some energy and still knock out a 5.0 (last time I wrote two pretty in depth essays and got a 6.0) Timing was a slight problem, and I had to blindly guess on two of the final three questions, but still I figured I was good for at least the 80% range.

Next came the score report option, I chose yes, and fully expected to see something like 660-670, only because I felt like I did horrible on the quant, but felt that I handled the verbal. Again, I would have been completely fine with a 20-30 point increase, because I'm not looking at applying to any programs until the fall of 2011, and figure that I have one or two more attempts in me. To my complete and utter dismay, my score report read 630 total, with a 42 quant (actually what I was hoping for, getting into the 60% range,) but more importantly and frankly disturbingly, a 34 in verbal, with an appalling percentage of 68%.

My question is, how does this happen? I mean, I went from scoring in the 92nd percentile on my first exam, to scoring in the 68th percentile. Was it a fluke that I scored that high initially? I would find it hard to believe just because on all my practice tests I was consistently up in that range. Was this second attempt a fluke? I am honestly at a loss for words. In terms of preparation, I basically stuck to the script, meaning I emulated what I did the first time around, devoting a bit more time to the quant section, but still managed to look at the verbal every time I studied. I should mention that I did not write the essays in any of my practice tests leading up to the second exam, but this could not have made such a drastic difference, especially because I deliberately dumbed down my essays this time around, and felt extremely confident about the verbal, meaning no fatigue or anything.

Clearly, I'm going to have to take another attempt, but now I'm wondering how I should go about it? After my first attempt, at the very least I could take away my great verbal score, but now it looks like I have no strengths and may have to go back to the drawing board. I have also exhausted all the MGMAT practice tests, resetting them a few times and have gotten to the point in GMAT prep where I am seeing repeats, having reset those a few times as well. Anyway, I just had to get this off my chest, and honestly can't believe I'm sitting here typing on a Friday night, but it was just a complete shock. Any thoughts / suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[StaceyKoprince]

I'm sorry that you had such a disappointing experience on the verbal. I'm glad that you were able to reach your target on the quant, though - that is something to be proud of, even though you're not happy about the verbal side of things.

So, the good news is: we've got one test on which you achieved your target verbal score and one on which you achieved your target quant score. How can we get those two to happen on the same test? (I'm saying this is good news because your task would be a lot harder if you hadn't been able to achieve those targets at all.)

I think what you described actually does give us a clue as to what happened in the verbal. First, you didn't do the essays on the practice tests. I know you said you felt fine, but your brain just isn't quite as sharp at the 2.5-hour mark as it is at the 1.5-hour mark. On your practice tests, you were getting into the verbal at the 1.5-hour mark and the test was over by the 2.5-hour mark. On the real thing, you were starting the verbal at the point that you were used to being done with the test. That's going to have some (negative) effect. (I talk to people all the time, by the way, who experience significant score drops on verbal and one of the things most have in common is that they didn't do the essays on practice tests. It makes a much bigger difference then you think.)

Then, you ran out of time a bit and had to guess randomly on 2 of the last 3. Let's assume that you got both wrong and, further, let's assume that you might have missed a 3rd one somewhere in there because you were rushing in general and probably feeling a bit stressed. That would mean you'd missed 3 of the last 4 or 5. Let's further assume that the ones you got wrong all counted (they weren't experimental) and that, if you got one right, it was an experimental. Basically, we're assuming worst-case-scenario here.

If you were scoring in the 90th percentile going into that last string of 4 or 5, then the penalty for getting 3 of those wrong would be significant. The test severely penalizes very high scorers for running out of time - even more so than moderate scorers. At the 70th percentile, getting the last 5 wrong would result in a drop of 15 percentile points. At the 90th percentile, we don't know the exact penalty, but we were told by GMAC's chief psychometrician that the penalty gets more severe as the score gets higher. So let's say that, in our worst-case scenario, that blip at the end cost you 10 to 15 percentile points, which drops you down to 75th to 80th.

But we haven't factored in the "no practice essays" data point yet. So, let's say that, going into those last 4 or 5, you were only at the 80th percentile because you'd made a few careless mistakes you wouldn't normally have made (and, again, if you have the capability to achieve a very high score, then a few extra careless mistakes will make a BIG difference). Now, the penalty won't be quite as big because the score's not as high. So let's say the penalty is 8 to 10 percentile points. That's putting us down near 70th percentile - which is about what you scored.

The short point: I think the timing issue at the end and the under-preparedness for the length of the exam could actually account for the 10-20 percentile drop you experienced on the test.

So now we have something to do here. If we can keep your momentum on the quant and tweak these problems on the verbal, then maybe you can deliver a test performance in which you hit your targets on both quant and verbal on the same test.

It also sounds like you might be feeling a bit burned out / frustrated (which is not surprising!). You may want to take a week or two off completely. Then start here:

http://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/09/23/evaluating-your-practice-tests

Use this article to help you analyze your performance on your most recent practice test* so that you can set up a study plan to move forward. If you want to discuss, post your analysis here (and I hope you do!) and we can help you figure out what to do.

*Ideally, pick the most recent test that you took under full official conditions. If you didn't take the essays on any recent tests, then you're going to have to decide whether it's worth it to take another practice test under full conditions, especially because you have taken MGMAT and GMATPrep enough that you're becoming too familiar with the questions. The benefit to doing this, though, is that you may be able to find patterns about where you tend to fall a little short when you hit the verbal 2.5 hours in rather than 1.5 hours in. (If you decide to take a couple of weeks off, that might help you to forget some of the test questions.)

Use this article to help learn how to review the individual questions from that test (and any other questions you do in future):
http://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/09/how-to-analyze-a-practice-problem

Again, if you have any questions or want to discuss aspects of that, feel free to come back here and ask.

If you do take a practice test and see repeats, follow these guidelines to minimize the chance of artificially inflating your score via question repeats. First, anytime you see a problem that you remember (and this means: I know the answer or I'm pretty sure I remember the answer, not just "hmm, this looks vaguely familiar..."), immediately look at the timer and make yourself sit there for the full length of time for that question type. This way, you don't artificially give yourself more time than you should have. Second, think about whether you got this problem right the last time. If you did, get it right again this time. If you didn't, get it wrong again. If you *completely honestly* think that you would get it right this time around if it were a new question (even though you got it wrong last time) because you've studied that area and improved, then get it right this time.

[tomcanfieldjr]

I really appreciate your insight Stacey. Clearly, skipping the essays probably played a bigger role in my disastrous verbal performance than I would have thought. I'm taking this week off, but will try to do a full length practice test (essays included,) sometime this weekend and then report back.

Also, I did have a question for you with regards to timing. For the quant, I try to follow the guidelines that you have alluded to in many previous posts, and I find that these work really well. (55 min left - you should be done with the 10th question, 35 min - you should be done with the 20th, etc.) However, I also used the same guidelines for the verbal portion during my preperation, and since there are 4 more questions, I found myself rushing towards the end on the actual exam. In the practice tests, I never had to rush just because I would see some repeats, and even though I would sit and wait for two minutes, there is a difference in just sitting there and waiting compared to the actual test day when the pressure is on for the entire 75 minutes.

How should I adjust the timing for the verbal portion? I realize there really isn't a uniform way to do it just because you will be spending different amounts of time on different types of problems, but what is the best way to set it up in order to ensure that you have a good amount of time left at the end?

[StaceyKoprince]

Verbal is trickier because it partially depends upon where the 3 or 4 RC passages begin. The below assumes that one new passage starts within each quarter of the test (Q1-10, Q11-20, Q21-30, Q31-41):

Q10: 56 min left
Q20: 37 min left
Q30: 19 min left

You should also keep track of the passages - every time a new one starts, make a little tick mark somewhere on your scrap paper. At each problem marker, you should have started x/10 passages by then. (So, at Q10, you should have started 10/10 = 1 passage. At Q20, you should have started 20/10 = 2 passages.)

If you have started MORE passages than you would have expected to at that point, then you should expect to be a few minutes slow - so there's not as much time left on the clock as you'd normally expect.

If you have started FEWER passages than you would have expected to at that point, then you should expect to be a few minutes fast - so there's more time left on the clock than you'd normally expect.

If that all gets too confusing, jot down a quick guideline for yourself at the start of the section. :)

[tomcanfieldjr]

Well, after a two week break, I decided to get back into the swing of things by taking a MGMAT practice test this past Sunday. I wrote the two essays, and took the allotted breaks.

Total 620
Quant 41 64%
Verbal 34 72%

At first I was disapointed because this is essentially the same exact score that I received roughly two weeks ago on the actual GMAT. However, I feel like this is a good starting point as I made sure to mimic the actual test day environment, meaning essays, breaks, etc. I made timing a big emphasis this go around, and I have to say it was by best effort in that regard, although I still had to guess on two of four at the very end so I know I can improve. Still, unlike previous CAT's there were no questions where I spent over 4 minutes on a single problem on the quant, and there were no timing issues on the verbal.

Also, one thing I was considering trying was blindly guessing on the 10th, 20th, and 30th questions. Knowing that most people have to guess on anywhere between 4-7 questions, I figured I could just take a quick look at these questions, and if I didn't see where the problem was going within 15-20 seconds, I would just guess and wind up with roughly 5 additional minutes to work on other problems so that I don't have to guess at the end of the quant portion. Is this recommended?

As far as repeats, I didn't recognize any on the quant side, and I actually took the step of intentionally getting questions wrong, that I had seen before on the verbal side, so my verbal may be a little lower than what it should be. Overall, I didn't see too many repeats on the verbal.

I reviewd your articles and it looks like the two areas where I need the most work in are Data Sufficiency and Reading Comp. I only got 40% of the DS questions correct and 50% of the RC questions correct. Within those areas, Algebra and Number Properties stick out like a sore thumb. I only got 4 of 9 correct for the Algebra related questions, and went a stunning 0 for 7 on Number Properties. Within Reading Comp, Inference and Specific Detail related questions seemed to give me the most trouble.

One note about the timing, on the quant, I counted 6 questions where I went over 3 minutes on each. Adding these up results in a total time spent of just over 20 minutes. Even though I got 3 of these correct, it just further demonstrates the importance of timing. That's basically 8 minutes that I lost right there.

I guess my question is how should I proceed having extrapulated this data? I signed up for a free Kaplan exam this Sunday, so in between, what would be the best approach?

[StaceyKoprince]

You're right that this is a good starting point, because you know that data accurately represents your current level and now you can use it to pinpoint your weaker areas.

Great work on improving your timing - keep it up! Re: when to guess, it is a good idea to guess as you move through the section, but it is not a good idea to decide to do so based on the number of the problem. Rather, you should decide based upon how hard the problem feels to you. If, within the first 20 seconds, you get that, "What are they talking about? This is ridiculous!" feeling, then there's your guess. Have a favorite letter, pick it, and move on.

I probably wouldn't automatically guess this quickly on 5 questions - certaintly 2 or 3 but, beyond that, it'd have to be a judgment call. If I feel like I can spend a minute to narrow down the answers and make an educated guess, I'll do that - that still gives me another minute saved. (And I MAKE SURE to stick to that minute.)

NP definitely looks like the place to start on the quant side. Looks like you've got a good handle on the specific content areas that need help.

One note about the timing, on the quant, I counted 6 questions where I went over 3 minutes on each. Adding these up results in a total time spent of just over 20 minutes. Even though I got 3 of these correct, it just further demonstrates the importance of timing. That's basically 8 minutes that I lost right there.

And you didn't even count up the other questions you might have missed because of that extra time you lost on these questions. Just reinforcing the idea that you do need to move on.

So, you took the test on Sunday and you're signed up for another test this week-end. Any chance you can postpone? You might as well give yourself a good chunk of time to improve before you test yourself again - simply taking a test doesn't actually help you to improve (not much, anyway). So that's my first piece of advice: postpone the practice test, if you can. :)

Next, use this technique to analyze the problems that gave you trouble with accuracy, timing, or both:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/09/how-to-analyze-a-practice-problem

I linked to this article in an earlier post, so perhaps you've already read it. As you do this analysis on each problem, the results will tell you what you need to go study / do to get better. Didn't know that divisibility rule? Okay, you need to go find that section of the divisibility chapter in your book and start all over again: read, test yourself on the In Action problems at the end of the chapter, test yourself on timed OG problems, make flash cards, drill the flash cards, etc.

Or maybe you knew all the rules but made a mistake in execution. Why did you make the mistake? What habit could you make or break that would help minimize the chances of making that mistake again in future. Etc. And then go do it, and then start making flash cards, drilling, and so on, until it's ingrained in your brain.

So, basically, use your test results to drive what you go back and do from your books and online resources. After you've made some progress (usually at least a couple of weeks), then go take another practice test and see how you do.

[tomcanfieldjr]

Well, with just under two weeks left before my third GMAT attempt, (test date is Saturday the 27th,) I thought I would update you on my progress since we last communicated.

As you suggested, I cancelled that Kaplan CAT and focused on the basics, namely official guide problems and reviewing said problems. I also purchased the Quiz Bank from Kaplan. I'm sure you are aware of this product, but basically it enables you to set up "mini" tests comprsied of GMAT like problems. Although the Quiz Bank is not adaptive, I have found it to be really helpful because doing problems while looking at a book is different from doing them while looking at a computer screen. Interestingly, some of the Kaplan problems are straight up ripped from the official guide with very minor tweaks, so I feel that this has been excellent practice.

Since my previous MGMAT CAT on 2/14 (620,) I took two different CAT's, both under official test conditions, with breaks, essays, etc.

2/28 PowerPrep 680

I felt the PowerPrep quant was a little too easy, as I scored in the high 90th percentile, and while the verbal was more accurate, (I saw questions that I had seen in the official guide and GMATPrep,) the extra large resolution utilized by PowerPrep threw me off slightly, and I scored in the 70th percentile. I made timing the major emphasis of my preparation leading up to this CAT, and it paid off as I finished both sections with time to spare, the first time that I managed to do so in any previous CAT. I reviewed these questions and continued to do more practice problems, making timing a priority.

Also, one thing that I have been doing, (I got this idea from a poster over at beatthegmat,) is running just the quant portion of GMATPrep. I have run it three times, and while I do see repeats, they are few and far in between. I feel the questions in GMATPrep are the hardest of any prep material that I have used, so I have found that it is good practice to get a feel for the actual GMAT by using GMATPrep in this fashion. The first time I ran it, I finished with a 42. The second and third time I ran it, I finished with a 47.

3/14 MGMAT 700

Yesterday, I took another MGMAT CAT. My score breakdown was: 43Q 70%, 41V 93%. Once again, I focused on timing and I managed to finish both sections with time to spare. I must say that this was my finest effort on any previous CAT, as I felt confident throughout the whole thing. As a side note, writing the essays when doing practice tests is a must. Compared to a month ago, I felt like I was breezing through this test because my stamina has clearly improved. The next two days I plan on reviewing this most recent CAT, to get a better idea of my strengths and weaknesses, and any potential timing isssues that I may have had.

I would like to take a final CAT just to maintain my stamina this coming Sunday, leaving me with 6 days before the actual GMAT. Normally, I would take a GMATPrep CAT but as I mentioned before, I have been running the quant portion of GMATPrep and I probably will run it once more. I do not want to get a score that will be significantly inflated, so would you recommend that I do another MGMAT test instead? I'm not as concerned with GMATPrep's quant (because even if I see a repeat it seems new to me,) however the last time I took a full length GMATPrep CAT, I saw many repeats on the verbal side, whereas MGMAT's CATs still throw new questions at me on the verbal side. I feel like the MGMAT CATs are second best in terms of simulating the GMAT. However, I don't want to be thrown off when I arrive in the test center because I was used to the MGMAT format. Any thoughts on this?

Anyway, I appreciate your help, and would welcome and last minute tips / suggestions that you may have for me.

[StaceyKoprince]

Nice work! Really great stuff.

For quant-only sections, you can also try GMAT Focus (www.gmatfocus.com). You have to pay for it, but there isn't a ton of overlap with GMATPrep, so you wouldn't need to worry about "contaminating" your GMATPrep experience. There isn't a verbal equivalent for GMAT Forcus, unfortunately.

I wasn't aware of the Kaplan "quiz" product - that does sound like a good thing.

Re: whether to use MGMAT or GMATPrep for your last test... well, there are trade-offs. The only way to decide is to lay out the trade-offs and then decide which things are most important for you.

MGMAT positives: score report + analysis; likely to be all or mostly all new questions; explanations given for the questions
MGMAT negatives: not the real thing; on verbal, in particular, this is attributed to differences in "language" and "interpretation" that might make a real difference at the highest levels.

GMATPrep positives = the opposite of MGMAT negatives
GMATPrep negatives = the opposite of the MGMAT positives

How would either test play out for you?
1. For quant timing, either test is probably fine.
2. For verbal timing, the GMATPrep test might be skewed if you see a lot of repeats.
3. For quant and verbal content (rules, etc) and wording of questions, GMATprep is going to match the real test more closely.
4. For having all new questions (and that situation would mimic the real test), MGMAT is going to be better (given your particular circumstances)
5. For test-taking techniques, MGMAT provides explanations / teaches techniques.
6. For avoiding an inflated score, MGMAT is probably going to be better (given your particular circumstances - for others reading, this is not a universal truth for all students)

I think the most important ones are 3, 4 and 6. I personally would say that 3 and 4 are most important, one of which points to GMATPrep and one of which points to MGMAT. You mentioned that you're also concerned about 6, so perhaps 6 is your tie-breaker. :)

Perhaps you continue to use GMATprep as "section" tests, including verbal in the mix (not just quant), so that you can continue to get a better feel for the official test language and question formatting. Then use MGMAT as your last full test to practice stamina, as you said.

One thing: if it has been a long time (>6 months) since you downloaded GMATPrep, you might try downloading it again. They do change the database somewhat over time. (Though you described seeing "many" repeats on the verbal side, so perhaps the changes won't be enough to make much difference to you.)

Let me know if you have any questions on the above (or anything else)!

[tomcanfieldjr]

I really wish I was posting today describing a success story, but unfortunately that is not entirely the case. I completed my third GMAT attempt yesterday, receiving a 650, with the following breakdown: 43Q (67%) 35V (73%).

Positives: Managed to improve my overall score, and improved both the quant and verbal from my previous test. Unlike previous attempts, there were no timing issues on either section.

Negatives: 650 is only a 10 point increase of my previous high, and that really doesn't do my any favors with the schools that I would like to apply to. I was also confident I could score similar to what I scored in my first attempt in the verbal section because I addressed the timing issues that we discussed above. Obviously, I didn't come close. Had I just come close, I likely would have scored in the upper 600's and would have maybe been knocking on that 700 door.

So, I'm clearly disappointed, because I put a fair amount of effort into this go around. (I know I can do more though.) All 4 practice tests leading up to this recent test, were taken with official test conditions, so in terms of stamina this was definitely the best "test day" experience that I've had. The big question is whether I should go for a 4th attempt. I know that generally you don't want to go over 3 attempts, however in my case I have a pretty low GPA so it's not like I can point to another aspect in my application package that would make up for the 650 GMAT score. I figure a 4th attempt with another 650 result really won't make much of a difference, whereas a 4th attempt with a 680 surely will. (At the very minimum, it opens up the quality of school that I would have a realistic shot at.)

I guess what the deciding factor will be is the verbal, as quant is a weakness for me and is unlikely to improve significantly. For the verbal, I scored in the 92nd percentile the first time around, but in two subsequent tests, I haven't come close to hitting that figure. The failure to hit it on the second attempt can probably be explained by timing and stamina issues, but this time around I had no timing issues. The only thing I can think of is that I barely looked at any official guide problems this time around. Basically, my main preparation was from Kaplan's quiz bank, and running the GMATPrep quant section, (ran it 5 times,) while I only ran the verbal section of GMATPrep twice, and saw repeats, so I think it's clear that I didn't do enough. Leading up to my first attempt, I practiced exclusively with official guide problems so I think I may have been more familiar with the format and official test language when I sat for my first GMAT attempt. Could this have made an issue?

Have you ever heard of someone scoring relatively high in verbal, and then not coming close to that same mark in subsequent tests? Is it possible that I got extremely lucky the first time around? If this is the case, then I think I might throw in the towel, but if its a matter of not being used to the format, then I think I want to give it one more shot, and be sure to focus on official guide problems.

[StaceyKoprince]

I'm sorry you didn't have a better experience on test day. I do want to congratulate you on your quant score, though - you've really made some great progress there.

I admit to being puzzled as to why you haven't been able to get close to your first verbal performance. It's unlikely that you just got super lucky on the first test - it's really hard to "fool" this test. Next to impossible, I'd say. You may not replicate the 92, but I'd still expect somewhere in the 80s.

The only thing I can think of is that I barely looked at any official guide problems this time around.

It is possible that this could have been a fairly significant factor, yes. A lot of verbal is about the "language" and "feel" of the questions, and some people who are good at verbal are good because they can pick up that "rhythm" of the testwriters - what they're thinking, what they want you to do, how they're trying to trap you. Did you feel that way when you studied and took the test the first time, like you "got" the questions, you could almost anticipate what was going on, what the right answer would be, what the traps would be? If so, then your strength in this area is probably of the "intuitive" variety, and you probably developed that strength specifically by working with source material written by the same writers of the real test material - that is OG material.

In terms of what to do now - are you applying right now? Are there other things that you could be doing that would help you get into b-school, things you wouldn't be able to do if you prepared for a 4th attempt? Or is any time you'd spend basically "free" time (relative to b-school apps anyway)?

If the former, you're going to have to think about the best place to spend your time right now; for that, you may want to talk to an admissions counselor to get his /her expertise and perspective. If the latter, then I'm inclined to say: go for it! If you don't improve, that's not going to negatively impact your chances anywhere; you've already got the 650. And if you do improve, then the more competitive schools might actually be impressed by the progress and determination that you demonstrated. (And you should certainly play it up that way on the app. :)

[tomcanfieldjr]

Once again, I appreciate your prompt response Stacey.

Looking back, I specifically remember studying from the OG and getting virtually all of the verbal problems correct during the preparation for my first attempt. After awhile I was starting to recognize the patterns like you described. I was hesitant to return to the OG, (at least for verbal,) just because I wanted to avoid repeat questions, (this really gave me a false sense of confidence leading up to my second attempt.) I also think that because I had just completed the MGMAT course, the techniques and methods were still fresh in my mind leading up to that first attempt, whereas I never even cracked open the MGMAT strategy guides (for verbal,) on the second and third attempts. Honestly, during all three attempts I felt about the same confidence wise, but I think sub-consciously I must have been thinking about the MGMAT methods during my first attempt.

I'm not going to be applying anywhere until the round 1 deadlines in October, so until the 2010-11 applications become available it's not like I can start with that right now. I have taken an accounting course and plan on taking another quant oriented course (for my supplemental transcript.) I suppose I could take a break from the GMAT and do that course, but I really would prefer to be done with the GMAT once and for all. The last thing I would want is to be focusing all my energy on the GMAT when I'm also going to be working on applications.

Anyway, I will try and get some advice from an admissions counselor, and probably take a few weeks to decide what I'm going to. Thanks again for your thoughts.