Hi Stacy,
I have been preparing for the GMAT on and off for the last year and a half. I started over May of 2007, took a prep course (class) in Spain, but for work reasons never took the exam, as I was not ready. Fall of 2007 arrived, I didn't percieve any improvements from the class room prep course that I took in Sapin, so decided to do Manhattan Review class in the fall of 2007. I finally got some real time to study, I scored around the mid, to low 600's consistently in GMAT prep and Manhattan Review tests, and finally did the real exam on Feb 2008... Got a 570 (36Q, 31V). Disappointed but, considering it was the first attempt, I knew I has to give it another shot.
I decided to buy Manhattan GMAT reviews guides, as I had heard it was the best thing out there. I studied them for 3 months (May, June, July), I took the 6 CAT exams, scoring from 620 to 660. I would say that a fair assessment of my capabilities were an average of 42 (range from 40 to 45) in math and an average of 37 (range 36-38) in verbal, consistently.
My target score was around 650, so I felt confident. I am sure MGMAT has helped quite a bit, as I have never felt more confident on my abilities (at least for mid 600s)... I took the exam on July 26th and got a 580 40Q, 28V.... Obviuosly in complete DISBELIEVE with my verbal score as I had bever scored that low in my life, and not too happy about my math, but I can definitely understand a 40 in Quant, based on my practice.
So very disappointed, and about to drop the whole MBA dream, I decided to give it another shot. The only reason was that I was scoring consistently around 650s with MGMAT and the GMAT Prep (high 600s), although I had taken it several times each test (at least a couple of times each)....
I studied again, the whole month of august retook 1 MGMAT (650) test and one GMAT Prep(680), in late august... I took my exam this saturday, 9/6 and I bombed it, once again... the worst score yet, 510 34Q, 28V again... you can imagine how I felt!!
So... I am thinking of forgetting about the exam, and stop pursuing my dream of going to Business school. Before I make a final decision, I wanted your feedback... I was considering a private tutor, but considering the investment, I need to make sure it's going to help me. It could be that my target score is 600s or less, and no matter how much I study and how many prep courses, nothing is going to help... Only 10% score above 690, so should I just give in, claiming that this is my best; or do you think I should give a try to the private tutor... I have already spent a lot of money and effort, and I need to know when to stop, as this is really impacting negatively my personal life, my feeling of self-worth, etc...
Any thoughts I would appreciate... thanks for your time.
GMAT Forum
5 postsPage 1 of 1
- Pedro
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
I'm sorry that you've been struggling so much with this test! You're not alone.
I have some questions for you re: your practice test experiences vs. your official test experiences:
1. Did you take practice tests under complete conditions (essays, 10 min break, quant, 10 min break, verbal)? If not, what did you do?
2. Did you take practice tests and study mostly around the same time of day that you took the official test?
3. How was your timing on your official tests? Were you able to maintain a steady pace through each section, working at about 2 min per question? Or were you too fast and finished with a lot of time remaining? Or too slow and had to rush at the end? If either of the latter two scenarios, can you please provide more detail about how quickly you finished (if too fast) or on how many questions you had to rush, and on how many questions you had to just outright guess (if too slow)?
4. Have you tended to underperform or overperform on standardized tests in general? When you took the SAT, did you get about what you expected to get, or did you get a higher or lower score?
5. How were your nerves on official test day?
6. How was your stamina? Did you have steady energy levels throughout the test? Or did you start slow, or "crash" before it was over, or both?
7. Can you describe ANY differences you noticed between your experiences taking the official test vs. practice tests? What about differences between the quant section of your official test on which you got a 40 vs. the quant sections of the other official tests?
As you noted, it's very difficult to score 690+. Only a small percentage of people score at that level. You don't have to score a 690+ to go to business school, though - it depends on where you want to apply and what the rest of your story looks like (grades, work experience, etc).
It's difficult for me to say either "you've reached your limit" or "you can definitely get better with more work" - there are too many variables involved in any one person's case. It is the case, certainly, that you need to do something differently than you did in the past if you decide that you do want to take the test again, and private tutoring would be something different. As you noted, though, it's extremely expensive to work with a private tutor, so I'll give you some pointers about how to decide whether to work with a private tutor.
First, I'd just like to add that it sounds like you might need a little bit of a break. You sound burned out. I don't know whether you're running up against any deadlines, so do what you can, but if you can take a week or two to just step back and breathe and not think about the GMAT (much), then I think that would be beneficial.
You should have access to a bio or other information that will let you know the tutor's experience before you officially agree to the tutoring (in other words, you should be able to check the person out and decline to work with that tutor if you don't want to for any reason).
You should have an email or phone conversation with the tutor before you officially meet for a paid tutoring session, and the tutor should give you some kind of work to do before the first meeting (I personally ask my new students to take an MGMAT practice test with 2 weeks of our first session; they then have to email me after they've taken it so I can go in and look at their results before we meet).
Your tutor should ask you enough questions to know your situation to a certain extent: how long have you been studying? what have you done so far? what do you think your strengths and weaknesses are? what is your goal score? when do you want to take the test? do you have any deadlines you have to meet? (these questions might come before the first session or at the first session - the point is, the tutor should be developing a strategy for your specific situation, not just applying a one-size-fits-all approach.)
You and your tutor should set up a general game plan at the first meeting: what your goals are and the general plan for how to accomplish that, including what you'll do on your own, how often you'll meet, etc. this game plan then gets adjusted over time based on where you are and aren't improving.
I have some questions for you re: your practice test experiences vs. your official test experiences:
1. Did you take practice tests under complete conditions (essays, 10 min break, quant, 10 min break, verbal)? If not, what did you do?
2. Did you take practice tests and study mostly around the same time of day that you took the official test?
3. How was your timing on your official tests? Were you able to maintain a steady pace through each section, working at about 2 min per question? Or were you too fast and finished with a lot of time remaining? Or too slow and had to rush at the end? If either of the latter two scenarios, can you please provide more detail about how quickly you finished (if too fast) or on how many questions you had to rush, and on how many questions you had to just outright guess (if too slow)?
4. Have you tended to underperform or overperform on standardized tests in general? When you took the SAT, did you get about what you expected to get, or did you get a higher or lower score?
5. How were your nerves on official test day?
6. How was your stamina? Did you have steady energy levels throughout the test? Or did you start slow, or "crash" before it was over, or both?
7. Can you describe ANY differences you noticed between your experiences taking the official test vs. practice tests? What about differences between the quant section of your official test on which you got a 40 vs. the quant sections of the other official tests?
As you noted, it's very difficult to score 690+. Only a small percentage of people score at that level. You don't have to score a 690+ to go to business school, though - it depends on where you want to apply and what the rest of your story looks like (grades, work experience, etc).
It's difficult for me to say either "you've reached your limit" or "you can definitely get better with more work" - there are too many variables involved in any one person's case. It is the case, certainly, that you need to do something differently than you did in the past if you decide that you do want to take the test again, and private tutoring would be something different. As you noted, though, it's extremely expensive to work with a private tutor, so I'll give you some pointers about how to decide whether to work with a private tutor.
First, I'd just like to add that it sounds like you might need a little bit of a break. You sound burned out. I don't know whether you're running up against any deadlines, so do what you can, but if you can take a week or two to just step back and breathe and not think about the GMAT (much), then I think that would be beneficial.
You should have access to a bio or other information that will let you know the tutor's experience before you officially agree to the tutoring (in other words, you should be able to check the person out and decline to work with that tutor if you don't want to for any reason).
You should have an email or phone conversation with the tutor before you officially meet for a paid tutoring session, and the tutor should give you some kind of work to do before the first meeting (I personally ask my new students to take an MGMAT practice test with 2 weeks of our first session; they then have to email me after they've taken it so I can go in and look at their results before we meet).
Your tutor should ask you enough questions to know your situation to a certain extent: how long have you been studying? what have you done so far? what do you think your strengths and weaknesses are? what is your goal score? when do you want to take the test? do you have any deadlines you have to meet? (these questions might come before the first session or at the first session - the point is, the tutor should be developing a strategy for your specific situation, not just applying a one-size-fits-all approach.)
You and your tutor should set up a general game plan at the first meeting: what your goals are and the general plan for how to accomplish that, including what you'll do on your own, how often you'll meet, etc. this game plan then gets adjusted over time based on where you are and aren't improving.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- Pedro
Stacey - Thanks so much for your comprehensive answer. I really appreciate. I dream about going to business school, and even though I have been almost 2 years with this exam over my shoulders, I can't let go... I thnk I need to take a last shot.
I posted some of the answers to your questions, below
I'm sorry that you've been struggling so much with this test! You're not alone.
I have some questions for you re: your practice test experiences vs. your official test experiences:
1. Did you take practice tests under complete conditions (essays, 10 min break, quant, 10 min break, verbal)? If not, what did you do?
- Never took the essays, and probably took 2 mins between math and verbal.
2. Did you take practice tests and study mostly around the same time of day that you took the official test?
- No, I usually took the tests around 10-111 am. The last 2 tests were at 8 am
3. How was your timing on your official tests? Were you able to maintain a steady pace through each section, working at about 2 min per question? Or were you too fast and finished with a lot of time remaining? Or too slow and had to rush at the end? If either of the latter two scenarios, can you please provide more detail about how quickly you finished (if too fast) or on how many questions you had to rush, and on how many questions you had to just outright guess (if too slow)?
- Math I can't finish, I usually get until question 30/31- Verbal, pretty good pace, always finish just in time (maybe a few seconds left)
4. Have you tended to underperform or overperform on standardized tests in general? When you took the SAT, did you get about what you expected to get, or did you get a higher or lower score?
[b]
- I am originally from Spain, I moved to New York a couple of years ago. This is the first stanardize test that I take. We don't have these tests in Spain.5. How were your nerves on official test day?
- A bit nervous, but not too much
6. How was your stamina? Did you have steady energy levels throughout the test? Or did you start slow, or "crash" before it was over, or both?
- I was ok, I think, never took my cereal bar though between math and verbal
7. Can you describe ANY differences you noticed between your experiences taking the official test vs. practice tests? What about differences between the quant section of your official test on which you got a 40 vs. the quant sections of the other official tests?
- I actually never feel too good about my quant... I am always running late, and feel a bit pressured... but sometime I score 40 sometime I score 44, in my practices tests... I reached the 40s threshold with mgmat guides, got a 40 on my second test, but something happened on my 3rd that I got a 34...
As you noted, it's very difficult to score 690+. Only a small percentage of people score at that level. You don't have to score a 690+ to go to business school, though - it depends on where you want to apply and what the rest of your story looks like (grades, work experience, etc).
I know this, but I think I can target a 650/660... I honestly think it's not out of my reach, unless the practices tests are really off...
But I most worried about my verbal, I think I have been scoring beyond 36 in all my tests, how can I score 2 consecutive 28 on D day, I was so in disbelief
It's difficult for me to say either "you've reached your limit" or "you can definitely get better with more work" - there are too many variables involved in any one person's case. It is the case, certainly, that you need to do something differently than you did in the past if you decide that you do want to take the test again, and private tutoring would be something different. As you noted, though, it's extremely expensive to work with a private tutor, so I'll give you some pointers about how to decide whether to work with a private tutor.
First, I'd just like to add that it sounds like you might need a little bit of a break. You sound burned out. I don't know whether you're running up against any deadlines, so do what you can, but if you can take a week or two to just step back and breathe and not think about the GMAT (much), then I think that would be beneficial.
- I agree. I wanted to apply to 2nd round (jan deadline), but i don't think I can do it know. Honestly I am thinking of taking up to 4 weeks... I am really burned out. Was thinking on maybe starting again at the end of october. Of course, thinking in applying for 2010... b/c 3rd round is out of question.
You should have access to a bio or other information that will let you know the tutor's experience before you officially agree to the tutoring (in other words, you should be able to check the person out and decline to work with that tutor if you don't want to for any reason).
- Would you have availablity, in a few weeks?
You should have an email or phone conversation with the tutor before you officially meet for a paid tutoring session, and the tutor should give you some kind of work to do before the first meeting (I personally ask my new students to take an MGMAT practice test with 2 weeks of our first session; they then have to email me after they've taken it so I can go in and look at their results before we meet).
- I have 6 CATs of data to analyze
Your tutor should ask you enough questions to know your situation to a certain extent: how long have you been studying? what have you done so far? what do you think your strengths and weaknesses are? what is your goal score? when do you want to take the test? do you have any deadlines you have to meet? (these questions might come before the first session or at the first session - the point is, the tutor should be developing a strategy for your specific situation, not just applying a one-size-fits-all approach.)
You and your tutor should set up a general game plan at the first meeting: what your goals are and the general plan for how to accomplish that, including what you'll do on your own, how often you'll meet, etc. this game plan then gets adjusted over time based on where you are and aren't improving.
I posted some of the answers to your questions, below
I'm sorry that you've been struggling so much with this test! You're not alone.
I have some questions for you re: your practice test experiences vs. your official test experiences:
1. Did you take practice tests under complete conditions (essays, 10 min break, quant, 10 min break, verbal)? If not, what did you do?
- Never took the essays, and probably took 2 mins between math and verbal.
2. Did you take practice tests and study mostly around the same time of day that you took the official test?
- No, I usually took the tests around 10-111 am. The last 2 tests were at 8 am
3. How was your timing on your official tests? Were you able to maintain a steady pace through each section, working at about 2 min per question? Or were you too fast and finished with a lot of time remaining? Or too slow and had to rush at the end? If either of the latter two scenarios, can you please provide more detail about how quickly you finished (if too fast) or on how many questions you had to rush, and on how many questions you had to just outright guess (if too slow)?
- Math I can't finish, I usually get until question 30/31- Verbal, pretty good pace, always finish just in time (maybe a few seconds left)
4. Have you tended to underperform or overperform on standardized tests in general? When you took the SAT, did you get about what you expected to get, or did you get a higher or lower score?
[b]
- I am originally from Spain, I moved to New York a couple of years ago. This is the first stanardize test that I take. We don't have these tests in Spain.5. How were your nerves on official test day?
- A bit nervous, but not too much
6. How was your stamina? Did you have steady energy levels throughout the test? Or did you start slow, or "crash" before it was over, or both?
- I was ok, I think, never took my cereal bar though between math and verbal
7. Can you describe ANY differences you noticed between your experiences taking the official test vs. practice tests? What about differences between the quant section of your official test on which you got a 40 vs. the quant sections of the other official tests?
- I actually never feel too good about my quant... I am always running late, and feel a bit pressured... but sometime I score 40 sometime I score 44, in my practices tests... I reached the 40s threshold with mgmat guides, got a 40 on my second test, but something happened on my 3rd that I got a 34...
As you noted, it's very difficult to score 690+. Only a small percentage of people score at that level. You don't have to score a 690+ to go to business school, though - it depends on where you want to apply and what the rest of your story looks like (grades, work experience, etc).
I know this, but I think I can target a 650/660... I honestly think it's not out of my reach, unless the practices tests are really off...
But I most worried about my verbal, I think I have been scoring beyond 36 in all my tests, how can I score 2 consecutive 28 on D day, I was so in disbelief
It's difficult for me to say either "you've reached your limit" or "you can definitely get better with more work" - there are too many variables involved in any one person's case. It is the case, certainly, that you need to do something differently than you did in the past if you decide that you do want to take the test again, and private tutoring would be something different. As you noted, though, it's extremely expensive to work with a private tutor, so I'll give you some pointers about how to decide whether to work with a private tutor.
First, I'd just like to add that it sounds like you might need a little bit of a break. You sound burned out. I don't know whether you're running up against any deadlines, so do what you can, but if you can take a week or two to just step back and breathe and not think about the GMAT (much), then I think that would be beneficial.
- I agree. I wanted to apply to 2nd round (jan deadline), but i don't think I can do it know. Honestly I am thinking of taking up to 4 weeks... I am really burned out. Was thinking on maybe starting again at the end of october. Of course, thinking in applying for 2010... b/c 3rd round is out of question.
You should have access to a bio or other information that will let you know the tutor's experience before you officially agree to the tutoring (in other words, you should be able to check the person out and decline to work with that tutor if you don't want to for any reason).
- Would you have availablity, in a few weeks?
You should have an email or phone conversation with the tutor before you officially meet for a paid tutoring session, and the tutor should give you some kind of work to do before the first meeting (I personally ask my new students to take an MGMAT practice test with 2 weeks of our first session; they then have to email me after they've taken it so I can go in and look at their results before we meet).
- I have 6 CATs of data to analyze
Your tutor should ask you enough questions to know your situation to a certain extent: how long have you been studying? what have you done so far? what do you think your strengths and weaknesses are? what is your goal score? when do you want to take the test? do you have any deadlines you have to meet? (these questions might come before the first session or at the first session - the point is, the tutor should be developing a strategy for your specific situation, not just applying a one-size-fits-all approach.)
You and your tutor should set up a general game plan at the first meeting: what your goals are and the general plan for how to accomplish that, including what you'll do on your own, how often you'll meet, etc. this game plan then gets adjusted over time based on where you are and aren't improving.
- Enginpasa1
very similiar situation
Hello Stacy and Pedro,
I must say that I was in the same situation as Pedros'. I studied for about the same amount of time and really studied as hard as possible the last two to three months. I was scoring about 620 to 640. WIth each week my practice test scores from the mgmat cats dropped about 10 points each time. I scored a 700 on the gmatprep software and decided to take the real thing. I wsa scoring very well at home on the books. I was hitting about 90% accuracy on my questions banks and was even tutoring my friends on questions. THe day of exam, I foolishly focused super heavy on the beginning of both sections and rushed heavily at the end of both sections. I thouhgt i was calm the day of the exam but in retrospect, I was nervous and losing concentration towards the end. I litteraly felt fried the day after the exam. I was slapped in the face with a 460. I dont need to say much about my feelings at this point. lol However, I took a lengthy time off and am ready for round two.
If anyone will get me out of this situation, I think it is going to be Stacy. I too have many questions about the bizarre drop in my scores and will be hoping to learn from this strand as much as possible. Thanks folks.
For all those in the same boat or with great advice email me at enginozay@gmail.com
I must say that I was in the same situation as Pedros'. I studied for about the same amount of time and really studied as hard as possible the last two to three months. I was scoring about 620 to 640. WIth each week my practice test scores from the mgmat cats dropped about 10 points each time. I scored a 700 on the gmatprep software and decided to take the real thing. I wsa scoring very well at home on the books. I was hitting about 90% accuracy on my questions banks and was even tutoring my friends on questions. THe day of exam, I foolishly focused super heavy on the beginning of both sections and rushed heavily at the end of both sections. I thouhgt i was calm the day of the exam but in retrospect, I was nervous and losing concentration towards the end. I litteraly felt fried the day after the exam. I was slapped in the face with a 460. I dont need to say much about my feelings at this point. lol However, I took a lengthy time off and am ready for round two.
If anyone will get me out of this situation, I think it is going to be Stacy. I too have many questions about the bizarre drop in my scores and will be hoping to learn from this strand as much as possible. Thanks folks.
For all those in the same boat or with great advice email me at enginozay@gmail.com
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Okay, the fact that you didn't take the essays is a big clue. Of course your verbal performance then dropped on the real test - you didn't have the stamina to write essays for an hour, then take the quant section, and only then get to the verbal section. It's like training for only the first 2/3 of a marathon...
You MUST take practice tests exactly the way the real test is given. I know nobody cares about the essay score - but you do care about that verbal score, and that means doing the essays (as seriously as you'd do them on real test day).
The 8am test time may have been a factor as well. You'll have to tell me - but I know I don't perform as well at 8a as I would at 11a (on anything - I am NOT a morning person!).
Your timing issues on the math are why your quant score is fluctuating - basically, if you're having to guess, then sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't, opening up the potential for pretty large fluctuations.
Re: tutoring, if you're interested in working with any MGMAT tutor (including me), you'll need to contact the office (studentservices@manhattangmat.com or 800.576.GMAT in the US and Canada) and go through the enrollment process. You are free to request a specific tutor; the issue then will just be whether your schedule matches the requested tutor's schedule. If it turns out that your requested tutor isn't free, then you don't have to go through with the tutoring. (We do have plenty of fantastic teachers - we all meet the same hiring requirements and go through the same extensive training - it just happens that I answer questions here on the forums, so you've heard of me. You may want to browse through the bios of some of the other instructors on our web site.)
This time of year, it can take a few weeks to get matched up with a tutor because it's busy season, so if you are interested, you should contact Student Services right away to get the process started - it's better to contact them a few weeks before you want to start. And then go take a break. :)
You MUST take practice tests exactly the way the real test is given. I know nobody cares about the essay score - but you do care about that verbal score, and that means doing the essays (as seriously as you'd do them on real test day).
The 8am test time may have been a factor as well. You'll have to tell me - but I know I don't perform as well at 8a as I would at 11a (on anything - I am NOT a morning person!).
Your timing issues on the math are why your quant score is fluctuating - basically, if you're having to guess, then sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't, opening up the potential for pretty large fluctuations.
Re: tutoring, if you're interested in working with any MGMAT tutor (including me), you'll need to contact the office (studentservices@manhattangmat.com or 800.576.GMAT in the US and Canada) and go through the enrollment process. You are free to request a specific tutor; the issue then will just be whether your schedule matches the requested tutor's schedule. If it turns out that your requested tutor isn't free, then you don't have to go through with the tutoring. (We do have plenty of fantastic teachers - we all meet the same hiring requirements and go through the same extensive training - it just happens that I answer questions here on the forums, so you've heard of me. You may want to browse through the bios of some of the other instructors on our web site.)
This time of year, it can take a few weeks to get matched up with a tutor because it's busy season, so if you are interested, you should contact Student Services right away to get the process started - it's better to contact them a few weeks before you want to start. And then go take a break. :)
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
5 posts Page 1 of 1