Hi,
I have been taking MGMAT practice tests for a while now and have been scoring in the high 6's low 7's range. Yesterday for the first time I took the gmatprep exam and scored a 530 (47,18). I have never ever scored so low in verbal although reading through these forums I realized I did have a string of wrong answers.
I realized that one section of RC I got 3/4 wrong. The main reason that I am writing here is to understand why the scores are so different. I almost feel that the way in which the scoring is done between the tests are very different. I have gotten a string of answers wrong on MGMAT, even entire RC sections wrong and will still manage a high score in verbal.
My test is scheduled for this coming Monday, any advice? How can I correct this quickly as I have less then a week.
Thanks
GMAT Forum
7 postsPage 1 of 1
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Hmm, that is puzzling. The scoring algorithm of GMATPrep is identical to the real test. We mimic the scoring algorithm as best we can, but the official algorithm is not published, so it's based on our best research, not the official, real thing. In general, GMATPrep is considered the best indicator of how people will perform on test day.
I have a few questions for you.
- did you answer all of the questions in the verbal section?
- did you have any strings of 5+ answers in a row wrong (especially towards the end)?
- did you do the essays first? had you been doing the essays on your MGMAT practice tests?
- did you take the test at the same time of day as you plan to take the official test? if not, what time of day did you take the test? either way, do you normally feel awake and alert at that time of day? (in particular, about 2-3 hours into the test, not just at the start time)
- did you take the 10 minute breaks between sections, have something to eat and drink, get up and walk around a little?
- did you notice any differences at all between the GMATPrep test and your other practice tests? From the problems themselves to your pacing, your ability to answer, your alertness, your nerves, whatever?
I have a few questions for you.
- did you answer all of the questions in the verbal section?
- did you have any strings of 5+ answers in a row wrong (especially towards the end)?
- did you do the essays first? had you been doing the essays on your MGMAT practice tests?
- did you take the test at the same time of day as you plan to take the official test? if not, what time of day did you take the test? either way, do you normally feel awake and alert at that time of day? (in particular, about 2-3 hours into the test, not just at the start time)
- did you take the 10 minute breaks between sections, have something to eat and drink, get up and walk around a little?
- did you notice any differences at all between the GMATPrep test and your other practice tests? From the problems themselves to your pacing, your ability to answer, your alertness, your nerves, whatever?
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- soduim
I have a few questions for you.
- did you answer all of the questions in the verbal section?
I did but guessed on the last 5-7 or so at the end with getting most of the wrong
- did you have any strings of 5+ answers in a row wrong (especially towards the end)?
Yup, because I ran out of time and decided just to guess to finish the test
- did you do the essays first? had you been doing the essays on your MGMAT practice tests?
I have never done the essays on any practice test
- did you take the test at the same time of day as you plan to take the official test? if not, what time of day did you take the test? either way, do you normally feel awake and alert at that time of day? (in particular, about 2-3 hours into the test, not just at the start time)
I am taking the test at 8am, I usually try to take practice tests in the morning. The morning is where my thinking is the best. Sometimes I do take practice tests in the afternoon and I usually get a similar score. After taking a break I usually feel fine going into the next section.
- did you take the 10 minute breaks between sections, have something to eat and drink, get up and walk around a little?
I did, I usually run out and grab a cup of coffee to help my brain spark up again
- did you notice any differences at all between the GMATPrep test and your other practice tests? From the problems themselves to your pacing, your ability to answer, your alertness, your nerves, whatever?
This is a great questions. I think because I have taken so many mgmat tests that I am used to the language as well as see repeat questions. Even the reading comp has become really easy because I think I know that I have read and seen it before. As far as pacing, I usually run out of time on gmat prep and I think thats a function of seeing all new problems all the time so I land up re-reading everything more then once. I usually run out of time on mgmat tests also, I guess C for all the remaining answers and for the most part land up getting a few right.
Its strange, regarding my ability to answer questions, I feel like I know a solid of plan of attack on mgmat questions but I have to think a lot and waste a lot of time with coming up with an approach for gmat prep problems. Perhaps its the unfamiliarity.
My alertness is fine and the same as when I take an mgmat test but I usually have to guess on 5-6 questions at the end because of running out of time. I guess I feel a lot more uncomfortable taking a gmat prep test because of the unknown where as I feel very comfotable taking an mgmat test because I know I will do well and score in the same range as I always do.
I took the gmat prep 2 test last night and got a 520 (33q 28v). This makes things even stranger because I went from a 47q 18v to a 33q 28v and got basically the same score. This is really puzzling and I am really not sure what to do. I'm thinking of taking another mgmat test just for a confidence booster for Monday.
Let me know what your thoughts are, hopefully we can solve this.
Thanks for all your help.
- did you answer all of the questions in the verbal section?
I did but guessed on the last 5-7 or so at the end with getting most of the wrong
- did you have any strings of 5+ answers in a row wrong (especially towards the end)?
Yup, because I ran out of time and decided just to guess to finish the test
- did you do the essays first? had you been doing the essays on your MGMAT practice tests?
I have never done the essays on any practice test
- did you take the test at the same time of day as you plan to take the official test? if not, what time of day did you take the test? either way, do you normally feel awake and alert at that time of day? (in particular, about 2-3 hours into the test, not just at the start time)
I am taking the test at 8am, I usually try to take practice tests in the morning. The morning is where my thinking is the best. Sometimes I do take practice tests in the afternoon and I usually get a similar score. After taking a break I usually feel fine going into the next section.
- did you take the 10 minute breaks between sections, have something to eat and drink, get up and walk around a little?
I did, I usually run out and grab a cup of coffee to help my brain spark up again
- did you notice any differences at all between the GMATPrep test and your other practice tests? From the problems themselves to your pacing, your ability to answer, your alertness, your nerves, whatever?
This is a great questions. I think because I have taken so many mgmat tests that I am used to the language as well as see repeat questions. Even the reading comp has become really easy because I think I know that I have read and seen it before. As far as pacing, I usually run out of time on gmat prep and I think thats a function of seeing all new problems all the time so I land up re-reading everything more then once. I usually run out of time on mgmat tests also, I guess C for all the remaining answers and for the most part land up getting a few right.
Its strange, regarding my ability to answer questions, I feel like I know a solid of plan of attack on mgmat questions but I have to think a lot and waste a lot of time with coming up with an approach for gmat prep problems. Perhaps its the unfamiliarity.
My alertness is fine and the same as when I take an mgmat test but I usually have to guess on 5-6 questions at the end because of running out of time. I guess I feel a lot more uncomfortable taking a gmat prep test because of the unknown where as I feel very comfotable taking an mgmat test because I know I will do well and score in the same range as I always do.
I took the gmat prep 2 test last night and got a 520 (33q 28v). This makes things even stranger because I went from a 47q 18v to a 33q 28v and got basically the same score. This is really puzzling and I am really not sure what to do. I'm thinking of taking another mgmat test just for a confidence booster for Monday.
Let me know what your thoughts are, hopefully we can solve this.
Thanks for all your help.
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
First, TP: getting 5 questions wrong in a row hurts your score more than getting 5 questions wrong that are scattered around. Essentially, the per-question "penalty" isn't linear - as you get more wrong in a row, the effective per-question penalty increases. So it's a really bad thing to get more than 4-5 questions wrong in a row.
Soduim:
I know today was your test day so you can't use this advice (unless you take the test again), but I still want to reply just in case you do take it again (or in case others are in the same situation).
See above on the questions wrong in a row thing. You should at least guess if you run out of time - it's even worse on your score to leave them blank - but ideally, you don't want to run out of time in the first place.
Here's the deal: you are going to have to guess on some questions. That's not negotiable because, however good you get, the test will just give you harder stuff. So the only thing that's within your control is the specific questions on which you guess. Choose the hardest ones as you move through the section and guess on those. You get a double benefit. First, you've chosen the very hardest ones on which to guess, rather than a string at the end - and you would have gotten some of those right because some would have been at or below your ability level. Second, you spread the guesses out so that you don't get the snowballing penalty that comes with multiple questions wrong in a row. Most people have to guess on 4 to 7 questions per section - so do it while you're going through rather than being forced to do it all in a row at the end.
DO THE ESSAYS. This is also not negotiable! If you don't, your verbal score on the official test will almost certainly be lower than your score on the practice tests. What do you think would happen for the last third of a real marathon if you'd only trained yourself to run 2/3 of the distance? You are training for a mental marathon here. I know you don't care about the essay score, but you do care about your stamina and ability to perform strongly at the end of the test.
"I usually run out and grab a cup of coffee"
How long does this take? Are you back at your screen within 10 minutes? A longer mental break is advantageous so don't take longer than 10 minutes. Mimic the official test exactly.
Sounds like you also need to spend more time studying OG and GMATPrep. I agree that there can be a "language" familiarity or feeling when you're studying questions from one source, and that's why it's so important to make sure you're doing extensive analysis on OG and GMATPrep. You need to make sure you're learning the language of the real test writers. We do our best, but we aren't the actual test-writers.
Soduim:
I know today was your test day so you can't use this advice (unless you take the test again), but I still want to reply just in case you do take it again (or in case others are in the same situation).
See above on the questions wrong in a row thing. You should at least guess if you run out of time - it's even worse on your score to leave them blank - but ideally, you don't want to run out of time in the first place.
Here's the deal: you are going to have to guess on some questions. That's not negotiable because, however good you get, the test will just give you harder stuff. So the only thing that's within your control is the specific questions on which you guess. Choose the hardest ones as you move through the section and guess on those. You get a double benefit. First, you've chosen the very hardest ones on which to guess, rather than a string at the end - and you would have gotten some of those right because some would have been at or below your ability level. Second, you spread the guesses out so that you don't get the snowballing penalty that comes with multiple questions wrong in a row. Most people have to guess on 4 to 7 questions per section - so do it while you're going through rather than being forced to do it all in a row at the end.
DO THE ESSAYS. This is also not negotiable! If you don't, your verbal score on the official test will almost certainly be lower than your score on the practice tests. What do you think would happen for the last third of a real marathon if you'd only trained yourself to run 2/3 of the distance? You are training for a mental marathon here. I know you don't care about the essay score, but you do care about your stamina and ability to perform strongly at the end of the test.
"I usually run out and grab a cup of coffee"
How long does this take? Are you back at your screen within 10 minutes? A longer mental break is advantageous so don't take longer than 10 minutes. Mimic the official test exactly.
Sounds like you also need to spend more time studying OG and GMATPrep. I agree that there can be a "language" familiarity or feeling when you're studying questions from one source, and that's why it's so important to make sure you're doing extensive analysis on OG and GMATPrep. You need to make sure you're learning the language of the real test writers. We do our best, but we aren't the actual test-writers.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- soduim
So it seems that everyone is certainly correct and gmatprep does mimic your actual results. On Monday I got a 520 (41q,20v).
During the test I was pumped to do well and thought I was fighting through the questions. On the math section, I did feel that things I could usually manipulate by either using the answer choices or by figuring things out logically, didn't happen very well. This leads me to believe that I have to make things more mechanical rather then trying to figure things out.
On verbal I was actually ahead of time for the most part, I found reading comp pretty easy and think I hit most of the questions right. However on CR, I could feel the questions getting easier so I knew I screwed up. For example I think on the first few questions I saw a double bold faced cr question and I usually guess on those just to save time. After that I felt all the CR got easy so I was done. As for SC, I feel I am doing a bit of guessing and more of selecting answers based on "if they sound right" Going through the posts here, I realize if I cannot distinguish between the right and wrong answer and cannot state the exact details to why an answer is wrong or wright, then it will kill me during the test. This I found to be true.
All in all, I still want to take another test because I believe this score does not reflect my true capabilities. How do you recommend I study for the next test? Should I use different prep materials such as kaplan or princeton? I know you stated earlier to use the OG, perhaps I am not using it effectively, how do you recommend I do so? Any advice would help greatly.
Also, I think I have learned my lesson, I will not take the exam again until I do well on the gmatprep exams.
Thanks for all your help again
During the test I was pumped to do well and thought I was fighting through the questions. On the math section, I did feel that things I could usually manipulate by either using the answer choices or by figuring things out logically, didn't happen very well. This leads me to believe that I have to make things more mechanical rather then trying to figure things out.
On verbal I was actually ahead of time for the most part, I found reading comp pretty easy and think I hit most of the questions right. However on CR, I could feel the questions getting easier so I knew I screwed up. For example I think on the first few questions I saw a double bold faced cr question and I usually guess on those just to save time. After that I felt all the CR got easy so I was done. As for SC, I feel I am doing a bit of guessing and more of selecting answers based on "if they sound right" Going through the posts here, I realize if I cannot distinguish between the right and wrong answer and cannot state the exact details to why an answer is wrong or wright, then it will kill me during the test. This I found to be true.
All in all, I still want to take another test because I believe this score does not reflect my true capabilities. How do you recommend I study for the next test? Should I use different prep materials such as kaplan or princeton? I know you stated earlier to use the OG, perhaps I am not using it effectively, how do you recommend I do so? Any advice would help greatly.
Also, I think I have learned my lesson, I will not take the exam again until I do well on the gmatprep exams.
Thanks for all your help again
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
I'm sorry that you didn't have the test experience you were hoping to have.
Yes, it's important to be able to recognize what to do rather than have to figure everything out from scratch. You won't be able to recognize everything, but the more you recognize, the better your score because (a) you save time (figuring stuff out takes longer) and (b) what you're using is more likely to work (because you know it worked on a similar problem in the past).
I don't think it was a mistake to guess on the bold face question - one question is not going to kill you for the rest of the test. But did you take some time to eliminate some wrong answers and improve the odds that you would get lucky and guess right? Generally speaking, we should take at least a minute on any problem, UNLESS we are already behind and we have to do something to catch back up. In that case, make a quick, random guess and move on. So instead of immediately guessing on bold face questions, you could take a minute to try to get rid of some wrong answers. (Note: you have to study this ahead of time, though. How can I get rid of some wrong answers on bold face questions? Well, I might find the conclusion and then look only at the first bold face and see how it relates to the conclusion. If I can figure that out, that's often enough to get rid of a couple of answers. Then I pick and move on.)
Re: studying again, obviously you do need to do something differently than you did it the first time around. The biggest change I recommend you make is how you study the questions. You actually need to study / analyze the problems, not just do them, in order to improve a great deal. So you spend the appropriate amount of time doing a problem (or set of problems), and then you go back and spend two to three times as much time analyzing. Here are some questions to ask yourself while you analyze:
For ones you get wrong:
1) Why did I get it wrong (as specifically as possible)?
2) What could I do to minimize the chance of making that error (or those errors) again? (this could be anything from reviewing the actual math or grammar content to writing things a different way on my scrap paper to thinking about and approaching the problem in a completely different way)
3) How will I make whatever that is (from 2) a habit so that I really do minimize chances of making the same error again?
4) What are the right ways to do it or think about it? (for math, there's always more than one way to do a problem and, for verbal, there's always more than one way to think about / move through a problem)
5) Of the right ways, which one is the best way for me (combining both efficiency and effectiveness) given my strengths and weaknesses?
6) How will I recognize problems of similar type in future so that I can apply that "best way" to the problem?
For ones you get right:
1) Did I really know what I was doing or did I get lucky? If I got lucky, review all of the "wrong answer" questions, above
2) If I did know what I was doing, did I also do it in the best way (for me)? If not, figure out the best way for you.
3) How would I make an educated guess on this problem? (It's easier to figure this process out on problems you get right; then, apply the lesson to harder problems of the same type / sub-type.)
4) What are the traps here? If quant, how did they write the problem to disguise what they're really asking / telling me? How did they write the problem to imply a certain path or calculation that's actually not the way I'd want to solve this? If verbal, which wrong answers are most tempting? Why? Why are they wrong anyway? Why would someone cross off the right answer?
5) How will I recognize problems of similar type in future so that I can either repeat my original success or apply my new "best way" to the problem?
If you haven't actually been studying in this way, then you haven't been learning as much as you could be learning. Re: specific techniques for the various question types, do some analysis and figure out which things are working for you and which things aren't. Keep the things that are and look for alternate methods / explanations for things that aren't (which might mean checking out material from a different company). But keep going back to the OG, GMATPrep, and GMAT Focus. It doesn't matter if you've already done some or all of those problems - if you haven't learned what you should be learning, then you're not done with those sources.
Yes, it's important to be able to recognize what to do rather than have to figure everything out from scratch. You won't be able to recognize everything, but the more you recognize, the better your score because (a) you save time (figuring stuff out takes longer) and (b) what you're using is more likely to work (because you know it worked on a similar problem in the past).
I don't think it was a mistake to guess on the bold face question - one question is not going to kill you for the rest of the test. But did you take some time to eliminate some wrong answers and improve the odds that you would get lucky and guess right? Generally speaking, we should take at least a minute on any problem, UNLESS we are already behind and we have to do something to catch back up. In that case, make a quick, random guess and move on. So instead of immediately guessing on bold face questions, you could take a minute to try to get rid of some wrong answers. (Note: you have to study this ahead of time, though. How can I get rid of some wrong answers on bold face questions? Well, I might find the conclusion and then look only at the first bold face and see how it relates to the conclusion. If I can figure that out, that's often enough to get rid of a couple of answers. Then I pick and move on.)
Re: studying again, obviously you do need to do something differently than you did it the first time around. The biggest change I recommend you make is how you study the questions. You actually need to study / analyze the problems, not just do them, in order to improve a great deal. So you spend the appropriate amount of time doing a problem (or set of problems), and then you go back and spend two to three times as much time analyzing. Here are some questions to ask yourself while you analyze:
For ones you get wrong:
1) Why did I get it wrong (as specifically as possible)?
2) What could I do to minimize the chance of making that error (or those errors) again? (this could be anything from reviewing the actual math or grammar content to writing things a different way on my scrap paper to thinking about and approaching the problem in a completely different way)
3) How will I make whatever that is (from 2) a habit so that I really do minimize chances of making the same error again?
4) What are the right ways to do it or think about it? (for math, there's always more than one way to do a problem and, for verbal, there's always more than one way to think about / move through a problem)
5) Of the right ways, which one is the best way for me (combining both efficiency and effectiveness) given my strengths and weaknesses?
6) How will I recognize problems of similar type in future so that I can apply that "best way" to the problem?
For ones you get right:
1) Did I really know what I was doing or did I get lucky? If I got lucky, review all of the "wrong answer" questions, above
2) If I did know what I was doing, did I also do it in the best way (for me)? If not, figure out the best way for you.
3) How would I make an educated guess on this problem? (It's easier to figure this process out on problems you get right; then, apply the lesson to harder problems of the same type / sub-type.)
4) What are the traps here? If quant, how did they write the problem to disguise what they're really asking / telling me? How did they write the problem to imply a certain path or calculation that's actually not the way I'd want to solve this? If verbal, which wrong answers are most tempting? Why? Why are they wrong anyway? Why would someone cross off the right answer?
5) How will I recognize problems of similar type in future so that I can either repeat my original success or apply my new "best way" to the problem?
If you haven't actually been studying in this way, then you haven't been learning as much as you could be learning. Re: specific techniques for the various question types, do some analysis and figure out which things are working for you and which things aren't. Keep the things that are and look for alternate methods / explanations for things that aren't (which might mean checking out material from a different company). But keep going back to the OG, GMATPrep, and GMAT Focus. It doesn't matter if you've already done some or all of those problems - if you haven't learned what you should be learning, then you're not done with those sources.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
7 posts Page 1 of 1