MGMAT CAT - Prop Q

[NOV1907]

Letter to the editor: Proposition Q, a controversial measure on this year’s ballot, would prohibit the ownership of handguns within the city’s limits. Under the plan, gun owners would have a 90-day grace period to turn in their weapons to authorities. Proponents of the proposition argue that fewer handguns on the streets would lead to less violent crime, making the city safer for all of its citizens. Unfortunately, the ban would actually have the opposite effect. Since only law abiding citizens would honor the ban, armed criminals would not only keep their weapons but would also have the confidence to act with impunity on a population that could no longer defend itself.

In the letter to the editor, the two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?
(A) The first is an observation that the author uses to support a particular position; the second is that position.
(B) The first is a pattern of cause and effect that the author believes to be true; the second offers evidence to contradict this pattern.
(C) The first is a position that the author argues will not hold in this case; the second is the author’s position.
(D) The first is a prediction that the author believes to be untrue. The second is a statement of fact that undermines the author’s position.
(E) The first is a direct relationship that the author believes will not hold in this case; the second offers evidence in support of the author’s position.

I have a doubt on the explanation offered for this bold face question. The second statement is not evidence. It is just a premise or the author theorizing. Which is why I eliminated the OA:E. If my understanding is incorrect, how would we differentiate between evidence and a theory?

[RonPurewal]

I agree with you that the second statement is not 'evidence', and will flag this question accordingly. The question would be better worded as, say, '...is a claim in support of the author's position' (or premise, or assertion, or...)

Out of curiosity, which answer choice did you settle on? D?

[NOV1907]

I believe I picked C because D states the second BF statement is a fact. I thought that the second boldface was a counter argument or position of the author. And it doesnt undermine his position - It is his position.

[StaceyKoprince]

Just FYI - the second statement is not his position, it is a premise in support of his position because it is offered to explain why "the ban would actually have the opposite effect." That last is his position, or conclusion.

Just be aware that, on the official test, when you see "it is his position" - that doesn't cover both premises and conclusion. It refers only to the conclusion.

[Nov1907]

Thanks Stacey as I typed my reply I realized that hi position was that the ban would have the opposite effect and the second BF section was his reason or premise for concluding so. Thanks for reconfirming!

[StaceyKoprince]

No problem!

[OA?]

Is it 'C' ?

[RonPurewal]

Is it 'C' ?

the oa is (e), as stated beneath the question in the original post.

[deep.within]

Hi, E is still the right answer according to CAT.

Since I didn't believe the second boldface offered evidence but was more of a premise (like the original poster stated), searched for this question on these forums & landed on this thread. Can one of the MGMAT instructors please look into this one?

thanks.

P.S. I picked C as well.

[tim]

What exactly are we supposed to look into?

[rte.sushil]

Just FYI - the second statement is not his position, it is a premise in support of his position because it is offered to explain why "the ban would actually have the opposite effect." That last is his position, or conclusion.

Just be aware that, on the official test, when you see "it is his position" - that doesn't cover both premises and conclusion. It refers only to the conclusion.

I came across this question. I got confused between C & E between position and claim in support of position.

Can i learn as: conclusion means position and premises means claim?
as in the statement:-
Unfortunately, the ban would actually have the opposite effect. --Conclusion..Since only law abiding citizens would honor the ban, armed criminals would not only keep their weapons but would also have the confidence to act with impunity on a population that could no longer defend itself.--since means reasoning?


2.) ewer handguns on the streets would lead to less violent crime, making the city safer for all of its citizens-- this is also position of proponents /conclusion?

3.) Can throw some light on position , conclusion etc. if my understanding is wrong.

Thanks!!

[tim]

usually claims and positions are both conclusions. however, if something (even a claim or position) is used in support of a claim or position, the supporting piece is a premise. does this answer all your questions?

[NehikaM698]

Hi, I had the same issue with this question. The answer explanation confused me so much that I began researching the difference between "claim" and "argument" because the explanation for this problem implied that these two were different. In the Manhattan lessons/books, however, they are explained as one in the same.

I narrowed my answers down to C and E. I ended up picking C because I knew the second sentence was not a claim/conclusion, rather support for the conclusion, and the word "position" in C seemed less risky/aggressive than the word "claim" in E.

Do you plan to edit this question (ie editing choice E: change "claim in support of author's position" to "premise in support of author's position") so that other students don't experience the same confusion?

Thanks,
Nehika

[RonPurewal]

^^ no; there's nothing wrong with the current version of choice E.

there are exactly two kinds of statements: FACTS and CLAIMS.
a CLAIM is ANY STATEMENT THAT ISN'T FACTUAL.

this is certainly not the same thing as a "conclusion", which, by definition, must be the logical conclusion of an actual argument.
if a statement is a claim, then that's what it is, regardless of what surrounds it—or even if it's all by itself.

__

the (apparently older) version of choice E in the original post, here, IS problematic—because it calls the second boldface statement "evidence".
THAT is incorrect, since only FACTS can be called "evidence" (which will be quite clear if you think for a moment about what can or can't constitute "evidence" in a court case).

[RonPurewal]

regarding your statement that our materials treat the terms "claim" and "conclusion" as equivalent—do you have a citation (book, edition, page number) for that?
...because those two terms are most certainly NOT equivalent, and ... well, I certainly hope they aren't presented that way.

it's true that the CONCLUSION of an argument will always be a CLAIM.
...because if a statement ISN'T a claim, then, it's a FACT. since facts are, well, facts, it's unnecessary -- and impossible -- to construct arguments to support them.
(e.g., I'm 5'11" tall. this is a fact. it should be obvious that you can't make an argument like "xxxxxxxxx yyyyyyyyy zzzzzzzz; therefore, I am 5'11" tall.")

...but, that just means that all conclusions are claims—NOT that "conclusions" and "claims" are the same!
(all mothers are women, but, obviously, "mothers" and "women" are not the same. etc.)

__

if our materials DO, in fact, state at some point that "conclusion" and "claim" are the same thing, then please let me know where that happens—because that would be one whopper of a mistake.
...but, i'm betting that the materials don't say that. if anything, they probably just point out (as i did above) that all conclusions are claims.


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also note—most importantly of all—that there is absolutely NO need at all to "memorize" ANY of these terms. all of them are used to mean exactly what they mean in ordinary conversation.