Hi,
I've taken 3 MGMAT tests so far and I'm getting a little discouraged with regards to my math score. It has stayed basically the same.
Scores:
MGMAT 1 - 640 (Q44, V33) - I took this after going through all the guides and doing & reviewing all the problem sets (minus advance sections) before starting the course - Had a huge problem with timing - kept stopping the watch for the quant section while verbal I finished almost 20 mins early as I was over confident and rushing through. I think in quant I paused the test for at least 20 mins on 2 or 3 questions.
MGMAT 2 - 700 (Q46, V40) - I took this one the week after the first test when my instructor told me to try doing it using proper time. I was better with timing on quant but I still stopped the watch for about 5mins total on 2 hard problems. I took more time with verbal and only finished 5 mins early this time. I think verbal score is closer to my real verbal ability although I think I could still improve verbal a bit.
MGMAT 3 - 670 (Q46, V35) - This is week 8 of class - I did the math section early yesterday morning and then the verbal at midnight last night. I finished the math section on time!! with 2 completely random guesses in between and about 3 or so more attempted strategic guessing. Verbal was not so good as I was very tired and found myself falling asleep during the test! Yet I was still way ahead on time so much that I completely dozed off for a couple minutes each on the last few and had to keep rereading the last few questions. But I still couldn't concentrate. I finished the verbal section 13 mins early and got the last 6 wrong. If I had gotten a couple or half of those right, like I should have if I wasn't falling asleep, then my overall verbal score would be better and closer to the one I received on the 2nd test so I'm not too worried about verbal yet. Quant though is same as last time. :(
The good:
MGMAT tactics and class practice have definitely helped me to improve my timing on quant. However, I have the test in 3 weeks and my quant just doesn't seem to be improving and I'm getting worried. I know my quant ability is not high but I just want it to get to 85% and then try for a verbal of >90%. I thought this was possible but it is looking less and less likely especially for the quant section.
My method so far:
As I'm doing the course, I've been going over all the guides again and doing all the problem sets for both the normal and advanced chapters for assigned work. I'm also doing the related OG questions (including 1st and 2nd editions Q. & V. Review).
I compare both correct & incorrect answers, review the differences and usually understand the explanations and, if applicable, how they differ from my methods. (I just can't figure it out during the exam)
Weakness/Strengths:
I've also examined my test scores - Probability and Rates & Work are weaknesses because I can't seem to apply the concepts I learn. FDP also because I always make careless mistakes. Number Properties and Algebra are my "strengths" of the lot of q. probs.
For verbal, my strength is by far SC - I just have to ensure that I think through the RC and CR problems properly and not rush through. RC is weaker than CR - I tried the diagramming method for a few weeks and failed miserably with timing because, as evidenced by this post, I tend to be very wordy. So I found myself taking well over 5 mins to diagram - so gave up on that method. I figured that all the extra time gained from SC would be used towards reading and re-reading RC...but that tactic doesn't work all the time.
I would like to know what I can do to increase my math score.
Also, and maybe I should have tried this first with my instructor, can an instructor or someone at MGMAT review student assessment reports during the course to give better feedback (like if someone could look at my reports and tell me where to focus that would be great!).
Thanks!
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- StaceyKoprince
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
I'm putting this first (even though it's the last thing you asked) because it's the most important thing. Yes, your instructor will give you personalized feedback after the course ends, as long as you have taken three practice tests (which you have) and made the request - talk to him or her at your next class.
MAKE SURE to tell him/her about the ways in which you deviated from official test standards when you took your practice tests. That affects how they will read your reports - more on this below.
Test 1:
Then that quant score that you got? It wasn't actually your true quant score. Your true quant score was lower. (And it doesn't matter that you used the pause button on "only" two or three questions. If you hadn't used it, you still would've used too much time on those 2 or 3, and then you would've gotten other questions wrong elsewhere because you had to rush - so it would have affected you on more than just 2 or 3 questions.)
Test 2:
So your quant score on the second test was also inflated.
On the third test, you didn't use the pause button, right? So your quant score has been improving - you just can't see it because your first two scores were artificially inflated. I know that doesn't fix your other problem (that you want a higher score than you're currently getting), but the problem is not that your score hasn't been improving.
Never use the pause button again. NEVER. You are training yourself to develop a very bad habit and that bad habit will KILL your official test. I cannot stress this strongly enough!
Also, don't take tests unless you take them under official conditions - essays, all at once, only 8 min breaks between sections, etc. This is the only way to ensure that the score you're getting is a valid measure of your current ability - that it isn't artificially inflated OR deflated (as you saw when you took a verbal section close to midnight!). Try to take practice tests at the same time of day as the official test.
Take it one step further. Ask yourself: the next time I see a new question that tests this same thing (and for which I should use this same method to solve), how am I going to recognize that this is what it is? And how am I going to remember to use this method? The first piece, the recognition, is crucial. You don't want to have to figure everything out from scratch - that takes too much time. You want to be able to recognize, within 30 seconds, this problem is testing X, and then to remember, this is how I should do a problem that is testing X.
After you've studied problems for a while from this point of view ("how would I recognize a new problem that is testing the same thing?"), try picking 15 random problems in OG. Give yourself 30 seconds per problem. In that 30 seconds, try to recognize what this is testing and what solution path would likely be best - but don't actually do the work. Then, when you're done, go back and see how well you did. If you didn't recognize something or thought it was testing something else, go back and ask yourself again: how should I have recognized (quickly!) that this problem was testing X?
Ignore probability - not that common. Concentrate on FDP - you can already do these but you're making careless mistakes. For every mistake you make, ask yourself:
(1) WHY did I make this mistake? (as specifically as possible)
(2) What could I do to minimize the chance of making that error (or those errors) again? How will I make whatever that is a habit so that I really do minimize chances of making the same error again?
The rates & work category is worth some time (more common that probability), but FDP comes first, because you can already do those if you can just stop yourself from making so many careless mistakes.
On RC, think of your first read-through and notes as simply an outline - 1 line, no more than 7-8 words, for each paragraph. That's it. You're not really trying to take notes in the way we normally think about taking notes. You're just trying to understand the overall structure of the information and the location (by paragraph) of the different pieces of info. You should be able to answer any "main idea" questions from your notes, but you should NOT be able to answer any specific questions - if you can, you've written WAY too much down. Your notes should just give you a good idea as to which paragraph to use to try to answer that specific question, but you should have to actually go back to that paragraph in order to make any headway at all in answering the question.
MAKE SURE to tell him/her about the ways in which you deviated from official test standards when you took your practice tests. That affects how they will read your reports - more on this below.
Test 1:
I think in quant I paused the test for at least 20 mins on 2 or 3 questions.
Then that quant score that you got? It wasn't actually your true quant score. Your true quant score was lower. (And it doesn't matter that you used the pause button on "only" two or three questions. If you hadn't used it, you still would've used too much time on those 2 or 3, and then you would've gotten other questions wrong elsewhere because you had to rush - so it would have affected you on more than just 2 or 3 questions.)
Test 2:
I still stopped the watch for about 5mins total on 2 hard problems
So your quant score on the second test was also inflated.
On the third test, you didn't use the pause button, right? So your quant score has been improving - you just can't see it because your first two scores were artificially inflated. I know that doesn't fix your other problem (that you want a higher score than you're currently getting), but the problem is not that your score hasn't been improving.
Never use the pause button again. NEVER. You are training yourself to develop a very bad habit and that bad habit will KILL your official test. I cannot stress this strongly enough!
Also, don't take tests unless you take them under official conditions - essays, all at once, only 8 min breaks between sections, etc. This is the only way to ensure that the score you're getting is a valid measure of your current ability - that it isn't artificially inflated OR deflated (as you saw when you took a verbal section close to midnight!). Try to take practice tests at the same time of day as the official test.
usually understand the explanations and, if applicable, how they differ from my methods. (I just can't figure it out during the exam)
Take it one step further. Ask yourself: the next time I see a new question that tests this same thing (and for which I should use this same method to solve), how am I going to recognize that this is what it is? And how am I going to remember to use this method? The first piece, the recognition, is crucial. You don't want to have to figure everything out from scratch - that takes too much time. You want to be able to recognize, within 30 seconds, this problem is testing X, and then to remember, this is how I should do a problem that is testing X.
After you've studied problems for a while from this point of view ("how would I recognize a new problem that is testing the same thing?"), try picking 15 random problems in OG. Give yourself 30 seconds per problem. In that 30 seconds, try to recognize what this is testing and what solution path would likely be best - but don't actually do the work. Then, when you're done, go back and see how well you did. If you didn't recognize something or thought it was testing something else, go back and ask yourself again: how should I have recognized (quickly!) that this problem was testing X?
Ignore probability - not that common. Concentrate on FDP - you can already do these but you're making careless mistakes. For every mistake you make, ask yourself:
(1) WHY did I make this mistake? (as specifically as possible)
(2) What could I do to minimize the chance of making that error (or those errors) again? How will I make whatever that is a habit so that I really do minimize chances of making the same error again?
The rates & work category is worth some time (more common that probability), but FDP comes first, because you can already do those if you can just stop yourself from making so many careless mistakes.
On RC, think of your first read-through and notes as simply an outline - 1 line, no more than 7-8 words, for each paragraph. That's it. You're not really trying to take notes in the way we normally think about taking notes. You're just trying to understand the overall structure of the information and the location (by paragraph) of the different pieces of info. You should be able to answer any "main idea" questions from your notes, but you should NOT be able to answer any specific questions - if you can, you've written WAY too much down. Your notes should just give you a good idea as to which paragraph to use to try to answer that specific question, but you should have to actually go back to that paragraph in order to make any headway at all in answering the question.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
Stacey,
Thanks for your reply.
You are correct about my first 2 scores being inflated. I recognized this & I know that although my score has been the same, because of the conditions under which I got the first 2, it has really improved. It's just that I feel that I am at a roadblock with my quant ability in terms of what I am getting right (or know how to get right by properly applying concepts) on practice questions and tests. And my test is on Nov. 21(!!!!) and I need a score of at least 700 because the rest of my profile isn't that spectacular. So, right now based on the last test, my level is close to 670. Ideally I would like a score ABOVE 700 so 720 or similar is what I would be satisfied with. However, with only 2 weeks left I NEED some advice on what strategy to take to get my score close to 50 points higher or as high as possible.
I am a bit behind my schedule for the past couple weeks (I had scheduled doing the advanced chapters & related OG/Quant/VB questions along with the assigned work since I'd already gone through the Strategy Guides just before the course started - that's a lot of work per week and I've fallen behind - not behind in the course work but the other work I had scheduled).
I think too it's becase I've slacked off the last couple weeks - this is the longest I've ever studied for anything (besides the SATs) and at least for SATs I had lots of free time during the day to study. It's definitely the most I've ever studied for anything. I first went through the guides from Aug - Sep. Then I started the course in Sep. I do the asignments + OG + V & Q Review (1st & 2nd Ed questions). Up until Oct. I was very good with studying but then work got busy and am just tired of studying. I'm usually a study-just-before-or-on-exam-day type of girl and I usually get ok grades off that method (avg~75%-85%) so I thought if I put in more work I could get stellar scores but it is just not happening - hence the discouragement.
Stacey, I'm going to try what you suggested about trying to recognize problems and trying to remember how to solve. I'm also currently going through the Q. Review 1st &2nd Ed. for the FDP questions and am trying to do as you suggested. Rates and Work - my instructor showed us a method that I thought I understood but I still get some questions wrong so clearly I didn't. On RC, I still have many questions to go through for the OG.
So much to do with 2 weeks left!
I intend to take the next two MGMAT tests under somewhat more proper conditions (i.e. taking both Q & V at the same time but no essays). Then I will take the final MGMAT test under proper conditions, i.e., do the essay part plus Q&V. Then finish off with the MBA.COM test.
I am taking off 2 days of work before the test to give me some time to study.
I just scheduled a consultation with an instructor to talk more about my reports.
Conrad, I will be taking quite a few more tests in the next 2 weeks and reviewing them so hopefully that helps.
Tania
Thanks for your reply.
You are correct about my first 2 scores being inflated. I recognized this & I know that although my score has been the same, because of the conditions under which I got the first 2, it has really improved. It's just that I feel that I am at a roadblock with my quant ability in terms of what I am getting right (or know how to get right by properly applying concepts) on practice questions and tests. And my test is on Nov. 21(!!!!) and I need a score of at least 700 because the rest of my profile isn't that spectacular. So, right now based on the last test, my level is close to 670. Ideally I would like a score ABOVE 700 so 720 or similar is what I would be satisfied with. However, with only 2 weeks left I NEED some advice on what strategy to take to get my score close to 50 points higher or as high as possible.
I am a bit behind my schedule for the past couple weeks (I had scheduled doing the advanced chapters & related OG/Quant/VB questions along with the assigned work since I'd already gone through the Strategy Guides just before the course started - that's a lot of work per week and I've fallen behind - not behind in the course work but the other work I had scheduled).
I think too it's becase I've slacked off the last couple weeks - this is the longest I've ever studied for anything (besides the SATs) and at least for SATs I had lots of free time during the day to study. It's definitely the most I've ever studied for anything. I first went through the guides from Aug - Sep. Then I started the course in Sep. I do the asignments + OG + V & Q Review (1st & 2nd Ed questions). Up until Oct. I was very good with studying but then work got busy and am just tired of studying. I'm usually a study-just-before-or-on-exam-day type of girl and I usually get ok grades off that method (avg~75%-85%) so I thought if I put in more work I could get stellar scores but it is just not happening - hence the discouragement.
Stacey, I'm going to try what you suggested about trying to recognize problems and trying to remember how to solve. I'm also currently going through the Q. Review 1st &2nd Ed. for the FDP questions and am trying to do as you suggested. Rates and Work - my instructor showed us a method that I thought I understood but I still get some questions wrong so clearly I didn't. On RC, I still have many questions to go through for the OG.
So much to do with 2 weeks left!
I intend to take the next two MGMAT tests under somewhat more proper conditions (i.e. taking both Q & V at the same time but no essays). Then I will take the final MGMAT test under proper conditions, i.e., do the essay part plus Q&V. Then finish off with the MBA.COM test.
I am taking off 2 days of work before the test to give me some time to study.
I just scheduled a consultation with an instructor to talk more about my reports.
Conrad, I will be taking quite a few more tests in the next 2 weeks and reviewing them so hopefully that helps.
Tania
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
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- Location: Montreal
Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
You may be able to boost that last 50 points in two weeks, but I think most people would need longer than that. Just FYI - one of the things you may need to think about is postponing for a few weeks.
I'm not sure exactly when you're planning to do this, but the best time to do this would be a week before your test, not the two days before the test. You don't want to do too much in the final two days - you can't really cram for this test. All you'll end up doing is tiring yourself out and then your scores might actually drop on test day.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "quite a few," but it's really not useful to take a test more frequently than once a week.
CAT exams are really good for (a) figuring out where you're scoring right now, (b) practicing stamina, and (c) analyzing your strengths and weaknesses. The actual act of just taking the exam is NOT so useful for improving. It's what you do with the test results / between tests that helps you to improve.
Ditto practice questions by the way - while you're doing a set of practice questions, you're not learning. Your learning comes from the review. You may want to revisit the handout from class 2 called Review Your Work (you can download it from the Class Resources section of the website under the Course Downloads link). The questions in the handout are the kinds of questions you should ask yourself when reviewing a problem - this analysis is actually how you learn the most.
Probably the single biggest different between a 650 score and a 700+ score is the thing I talked about in my last post - this ability to recognize what's going on in the problem because you've seen something like it before. Let me know how that part of the studying goes. (Also, I'm really glad that you've scheduled a review with your instructor!)
I am taking off 2 days of work before the test to give me some time to study.
I'm not sure exactly when you're planning to do this, but the best time to do this would be a week before your test, not the two days before the test. You don't want to do too much in the final two days - you can't really cram for this test. All you'll end up doing is tiring yourself out and then your scores might actually drop on test day.
I will be taking quite a few more tests in the next 2 weeks and reviewing them so hopefully that helps.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "quite a few," but it's really not useful to take a test more frequently than once a week.
CAT exams are really good for (a) figuring out where you're scoring right now, (b) practicing stamina, and (c) analyzing your strengths and weaknesses. The actual act of just taking the exam is NOT so useful for improving. It's what you do with the test results / between tests that helps you to improve.
Ditto practice questions by the way - while you're doing a set of practice questions, you're not learning. Your learning comes from the review. You may want to revisit the handout from class 2 called Review Your Work (you can download it from the Class Resources section of the website under the Course Downloads link). The questions in the handout are the kinds of questions you should ask yourself when reviewing a problem - this analysis is actually how you learn the most.
Probably the single biggest different between a 650 score and a 700+ score is the thing I talked about in my last post - this ability to recognize what's going on in the problem because you've seen something like it before. Let me know how that part of the studying goes. (Also, I'm really glad that you've scheduled a review with your instructor!)
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- tbh
- Course Students
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:00 pm
Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
Hi Stacey,
How long do you think it normally takes to boost one's score by 50 points, especially to a 700+ score?
My two days off are just before test date - Yes, I've read numerous times on this forum how it is not good to study/practice just before test time - but then people used to always tell me never study on exam days for exams in general and, to be honest, I often felt like I studied better in the last few hours leading up to an exam than a week before. Recognizing that I may not be able to cram for this test, I have had too many eureka moments on difficult concepts or got saved by studying a difficult formula just before an exam to completely discount studying so close to test time.
I would like to get in the 5 practice tests in 14 days but I doubt it will happen.
Knowing me and my schedule, it is likely I will only get to do 3 more tests before the test date.
However, I won't be doing anymore practice questions besides one each on the two days before the exam.
On the Thursday and Friday before test date I only just plan to do a test a day, review the test and review/create flash cards for little things like division by certain decimals, common right-angle triangle sides, n! for 1st 10 numbers, etc... That's where the cramming will come in :) - remembering those useful things that will make my life easier - right now I only know about 1/3 of them and that 1/3 already help me quite a bit.
Also taking the two days off will help me to focus and relax because work is getting rather stressful and if I can take one of my stressors out of the equation for a couple days then hopefully that will help me to better concentrate on exam day.
I don't want to push the exam date back because, if I really flunk it this first time, I want to have the opportunity to take it again before R2 deadlines.
T
How long do you think it normally takes to boost one's score by 50 points, especially to a 700+ score?
My two days off are just before test date - Yes, I've read numerous times on this forum how it is not good to study/practice just before test time - but then people used to always tell me never study on exam days for exams in general and, to be honest, I often felt like I studied better in the last few hours leading up to an exam than a week before. Recognizing that I may not be able to cram for this test, I have had too many eureka moments on difficult concepts or got saved by studying a difficult formula just before an exam to completely discount studying so close to test time.
I would like to get in the 5 practice tests in 14 days but I doubt it will happen.
Knowing me and my schedule, it is likely I will only get to do 3 more tests before the test date.
However, I won't be doing anymore practice questions besides one each on the two days before the exam.
On the Thursday and Friday before test date I only just plan to do a test a day, review the test and review/create flash cards for little things like division by certain decimals, common right-angle triangle sides, n! for 1st 10 numbers, etc... That's where the cramming will come in :) - remembering those useful things that will make my life easier - right now I only know about 1/3 of them and that 1/3 already help me quite a bit.
Also taking the two days off will help me to focus and relax because work is getting rather stressful and if I can take one of my stressors out of the equation for a couple days then hopefully that will help me to better concentrate on exam day.
I don't want to push the exam date back because, if I really flunk it this first time, I want to have the opportunity to take it again before R2 deadlines.
T
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
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- Location: Montreal
Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
I don't want to push the exam date back because, if I really flunk it this first time, I want to have the opportunity to take it again before R2 deadlines.
That's a good reason not to postpone.
Also taking the two days off will help me to focus and relax because work is getting rather stressful and if I can take one of my stressors out of the equation for a couple days then hopefully that will help me to better concentrate on exam day.
That's also a good reason to take the time off right before the test.
The major thing I'm concerned about is burning yourself out right before the test. The test is a mental marathon - it's exhausting to take this thing. You wouldn't run a practice marathon the day before the real marathon, right? This test is similar in that way.
This doesn't mean that you shouldn't take the two days off right before the test - but I would strongly recommend against taking practice tests on those two days. Review is a great idea, but not actually taking a test. The risk of tiring your brain out is too high.
The other thing is that you're looking to increase your score. If you were happy with your current scoring level and just trying to maintain, then taking periodic practice tests would be the best way to do that. But you're not trying to maintain - you're trying to increase. That's a whole different thing.
You don't get much better by taking practice tests. You get better with the *extensive* review that you do between tests - and there's at least a week's worth of intensive review possible based upon the results of one practice test.
So, you've got about 2 weeks. Obviously, you've got to decide what to do for yourself, and you should factor in what you know about your own learning style, etc. My advice is:
- practice test #1 around now
- in-depth review of every problem on the test; make flash cards as you go along
- additional review of concepts from your books based upon your weaknesses from each test, and additional practice on similar questions from official sources; ditto on flash cards
- practice test #3 around 5-7 days before the real thing
- repeat the review described above; review existing flash cards and make new
- last 2 days, do a few practice problems but mostly concentrate on reviewing existing flash cards and writing out new ones, as that has worked for you in the past
good luck!
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- tbh
- Course Students
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- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:00 pm
Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
Hi Stacey,
I came back to report my score. I took the test today. My overall score is ok but the percentage for math is pretty bad.
Unofficial score was 710 (Q44, V42).
I ended up only taking 2 more tests after my last post: one mgmat + 1 gmatprep.
All my scores from the practice tests then the real deal in case anyone is interested are:
MGMAT 1 (9/12) - 640 (Q44, V30) - Paused test for at least 15 mins total on 2 or 3 questions
MGMAT 2 (9/22) - 700 (Q46, V40) - Paused test for around 5 mins total on 2 questions
MGMAT 3 (11/3) - 670 (Q46, V35) - proper timing
MGMAT 4 (11/17) - 680 (Q43, V39) - finished without pause but had timing issues on quant - rushed through last 10 quant questions = 4 in a row wrong + last 2 questions incorrect
GMATPrep 1 (11/20) - 730 (Q47, V42) - finished on time - recognized a couple verbal questions from the OG Guide and one math question.
Real GMAT (11/21) - 710 (Q44, V42) - The Q is around the same as I've been getting with MGMAT but that 44 score in MGMAT gives a 73% which I would have been ok with. As it is, on the GMAT that score, Q44, = 69%.
Am a bit depressed that it looks like I have to take the test over again for the quant. Had my score been one higher in quant (Q45), I would have gotten a 74% which would have been ok. Woulda coulda shoulda...
My issue was timing in quant, I basically felt the same way I did when I did MGMAT 4...It really felt like I was reliving my last minutes doing that practice test....except that what was worse is that, unlike with mgmat 4, in the gmat today I was actually ahead up til modway between q. 17 & 27 (using the timing of finished q.7 with 60mins left, 17 with 40 mins, 27 with 20mins) so I really wasted time on the latter half of the test.
Any advice on what I should focus on if I decide to retake (which right now is at a 80% probability that I'll take it a 2nd time)???
Thanks.
I came back to report my score. I took the test today. My overall score is ok but the percentage for math is pretty bad.
Unofficial score was 710 (Q44, V42).
I ended up only taking 2 more tests after my last post: one mgmat + 1 gmatprep.
All my scores from the practice tests then the real deal in case anyone is interested are:
MGMAT 1 (9/12) - 640 (Q44, V30) - Paused test for at least 15 mins total on 2 or 3 questions
MGMAT 2 (9/22) - 700 (Q46, V40) - Paused test for around 5 mins total on 2 questions
MGMAT 3 (11/3) - 670 (Q46, V35) - proper timing
MGMAT 4 (11/17) - 680 (Q43, V39) - finished without pause but had timing issues on quant - rushed through last 10 quant questions = 4 in a row wrong + last 2 questions incorrect
GMATPrep 1 (11/20) - 730 (Q47, V42) - finished on time - recognized a couple verbal questions from the OG Guide and one math question.
Real GMAT (11/21) - 710 (Q44, V42) - The Q is around the same as I've been getting with MGMAT but that 44 score in MGMAT gives a 73% which I would have been ok with. As it is, on the GMAT that score, Q44, = 69%.
Am a bit depressed that it looks like I have to take the test over again for the quant. Had my score been one higher in quant (Q45), I would have gotten a 74% which would have been ok. Woulda coulda shoulda...
My issue was timing in quant, I basically felt the same way I did when I did MGMAT 4...It really felt like I was reliving my last minutes doing that practice test....except that what was worse is that, unlike with mgmat 4, in the gmat today I was actually ahead up til modway between q. 17 & 27 (using the timing of finished q.7 with 60mins left, 17 with 40 mins, 27 with 20mins) so I really wasted time on the latter half of the test.
Any advice on what I should focus on if I decide to retake (which right now is at a 80% probability that I'll take it a 2nd time)???
Thanks.
- csnyder30
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
Looks like quant is your weakness. I would suggest the following...find the most difficult quant problems you can and do as many as you can. GMAT Club has very hard quant questions. Would focus on re-doing the MGMAT strategy guide problems, but only do the ones that you got wrong. Also do an internet search for 700+ level questions. Believe beatthehegmat forum has a download for this. Also look at the back of the MGMAT strategy guides and highlight the Challenge Set problems in the OG's (OG11 or 12 and Q Review and V Review). Focus on the most difficult problems you can find and re-do them until your fingers ache/bleed from over using your pencil. I went from a 470 to a 690 (with Q47) in a couple months by following this strategy. It is key that you are very honest with yourself in terms of your weaknesses in the quant section. Would also just think about which problems you really dread doing and focus time/attention on becoming comfortable doing those problems.
- StaceyKoprince
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
On the bright side, you crossed 700! Excellent job!
Now, on to the quant. Are you applying to a school that looks for an 80/80? (80th percentile in each of the sub-scores) Just wondering why you need a higher quant score. You may want to ask the schools directly; often, admissions departments will say they want 80/80 but still be fine with something in the 70th percentile range, especially if the overall is still 700+. What is the rest of your quant background? Did you have quant courses in college (with good grades, of course)? Do you use quant skills for any part of your job? Those things may compensate for a slightly lower quant score at an 80/80 school.
The biggest thing for me in your write-up is that you had timing problems again on the quant section. That alone could have brought you down that one point (or more, depending upon exactly how things played out). If you take the test again, you MUST fix this timing problem - it's going to be really tough to approach the 80th percentile in quant if you continue to have this problem. The bit of good news, though, is that if you can just fix the timing problem (and generally maintain your current quant skills), there's a good chance that alone will be enough to get you the score you want.
If this advice means "the most difficult quant problems in an objective sense," then I really have to disagree with this strongly. Someone who is currently scoring around the 70th percentile on quant needs to focus on questions just below and just above that range - say in the 60th to 80th percentiles. It is very much a waste of time to concentrate on 90+ percentile questions for someone in this position because the person is not even going to be offered many questions of that type on the test. You have to be able to do the vast majority of the sub-90th percentile questions in 2 minutes (or less!) in order to "earn" the hardest questions in the first place.
If, on the other hand, this advice means "find problems that are hard for you, given your current ability level," then this is better, but you still have to be careful not to concentrate too much on the ones that are too hard.
I also disagree that people should focus only on the ones they got wrong. You can learn from those of course, but you can also learn a TON from the ones you got right - and it's often easier to learn from questions that you get right. Also, just because you got something right doesn't mean that you're fine / perfect at that thing. What if you spent too much time? What if you got a bit lucky? What if you actually did make a mistake and got REALLY lucky by getting the right answer anyway? And so on.
Now, on to the quant. Are you applying to a school that looks for an 80/80? (80th percentile in each of the sub-scores) Just wondering why you need a higher quant score. You may want to ask the schools directly; often, admissions departments will say they want 80/80 but still be fine with something in the 70th percentile range, especially if the overall is still 700+. What is the rest of your quant background? Did you have quant courses in college (with good grades, of course)? Do you use quant skills for any part of your job? Those things may compensate for a slightly lower quant score at an 80/80 school.
The biggest thing for me in your write-up is that you had timing problems again on the quant section. That alone could have brought you down that one point (or more, depending upon exactly how things played out). If you take the test again, you MUST fix this timing problem - it's going to be really tough to approach the 80th percentile in quant if you continue to have this problem. The bit of good news, though, is that if you can just fix the timing problem (and generally maintain your current quant skills), there's a good chance that alone will be enough to get you the score you want.
I would suggest the following...find the most difficult quant problems you can and do as many as you can.
If this advice means "the most difficult quant problems in an objective sense," then I really have to disagree with this strongly. Someone who is currently scoring around the 70th percentile on quant needs to focus on questions just below and just above that range - say in the 60th to 80th percentiles. It is very much a waste of time to concentrate on 90+ percentile questions for someone in this position because the person is not even going to be offered many questions of that type on the test. You have to be able to do the vast majority of the sub-90th percentile questions in 2 minutes (or less!) in order to "earn" the hardest questions in the first place.
If, on the other hand, this advice means "find problems that are hard for you, given your current ability level," then this is better, but you still have to be careful not to concentrate too much on the ones that are too hard.
I also disagree that people should focus only on the ones they got wrong. You can learn from those of course, but you can also learn a TON from the ones you got right - and it's often easier to learn from questions that you get right. Also, just because you got something right doesn't mean that you're fine / perfect at that thing. What if you spent too much time? What if you got a bit lucky? What if you actually did make a mistake and got REALLY lucky by getting the right answer anyway? And so on.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- tbh
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
Hi Stacey,
Thanks for your response.
I'm applying to top 25 schools only (Yale, Ross, Fuqua, Tuck, IESE, LBS). I thought all of those schools, especially top 10, only accept students with 80/80 split especially if rest of profile is not the greatest. However, I consulted an admissions consultant and she told me that I shouldn't retake and should focus on writing my essays (got the same advice from a couple friends) since the only real school that specifically asks for 80/80 is Wharton and I'm not applying to them.
My major was computer science so I definitely took more quant than say someone who took english/history/liberal arts. However, my quant grades were always generally lower than liberal arts courses (yes I chose comp sci because it is challenging as lib courses were too easy) and they are really the source of my low gpa (I only have a 3.0).
I really wanted to try taking it again because, like you suggested, I also feel that all I need is to fix my timing issues and I could get a high 70+% or even 80% in quant. However, I should really focus on writing my essays since I'm applying to the 6 mentioned schools + maybe 2 more. So, if I don't get in to any of those schools then I will retake it but I'm done for now.
Thanks for all your advice and encouragement!
T
Thanks for your response.
I'm applying to top 25 schools only (Yale, Ross, Fuqua, Tuck, IESE, LBS). I thought all of those schools, especially top 10, only accept students with 80/80 split especially if rest of profile is not the greatest. However, I consulted an admissions consultant and she told me that I shouldn't retake and should focus on writing my essays (got the same advice from a couple friends) since the only real school that specifically asks for 80/80 is Wharton and I'm not applying to them.
My major was computer science so I definitely took more quant than say someone who took english/history/liberal arts. However, my quant grades were always generally lower than liberal arts courses (yes I chose comp sci because it is challenging as lib courses were too easy) and they are really the source of my low gpa (I only have a 3.0).
I really wanted to try taking it again because, like you suggested, I also feel that all I need is to fix my timing issues and I could get a high 70+% or even 80% in quant. However, I should really focus on writing my essays since I'm applying to the 6 mentioned schools + maybe 2 more. So, if I don't get in to any of those schools then I will retake it but I'm done for now.
Thanks for all your advice and encouragement!
T
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
I agree - you're applying to a lot of schools and essays are hard to write! It's really important to make them as stellar as possible; that's how they get to see the "real you" pop off the page.
Good luck with your apps - let us know how it goes!
Good luck with your apps - let us know how it goes!
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- Anonymous1123
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
Stacey,
I was planning on taking a practice exam on 13th and the real thing is on 16th December. Do you think that is OK?
Just extremely short background, gave GMAT once 620 - got onto MGMAT course - scored 690,670 and 700 on MGMAT tests. But then I took one official practice yesterday and scored only 640. ( Q40, V36). I have already taken both official practice test once. I reviewed quant and I did many dumb mistakes. Anyway, so I am planning to take another one this Sunday. Given your comment about Marathon, I was reconsidering whether I should give the second official again.
Feel free to review my scores if you have to. Finally, I would appreicate it you can let me know or provide link for preparation 4 days before the real exam.
Quick response is appreciated.
I was planning on taking a practice exam on 13th and the real thing is on 16th December. Do you think that is OK?
Just extremely short background, gave GMAT once 620 - got onto MGMAT course - scored 690,670 and 700 on MGMAT tests. But then I took one official practice yesterday and scored only 640. ( Q40, V36). I have already taken both official practice test once. I reviewed quant and I did many dumb mistakes. Anyway, so I am planning to take another one this Sunday. Given your comment about Marathon, I was reconsidering whether I should give the second official again.
Feel free to review my scores if you have to. Finally, I would appreicate it you can let me know or provide link for preparation 4 days before the real exam.
Quick response is appreciated.
- Anonymous1123
- Course Students
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
Also, what would you advice on the number of hours one should spend studying for last 2 days before the exam? At what point does one run into the risk of burning oneself out?
Do you recommend, as a warmup, working on 6-8 pratice problems on the days of the exam?
Do you recommend, as a warmup, working on 6-8 pratice problems on the days of the exam?
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
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Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
I'd be hesitant to take a test within 3 days of the real thing; you aren't going to learn much at the last minute and you run the risk of tiring yourself out. I'm guessing that you want to do this because your confidence has dropped, and you're hoping for a better score to boost your confidence. Have you figured out why your score dropped though? If not, how do you know you can avoid having that happen again? And if it happens again 3 days before, what's that going to do to your confidence level?
The major issue at this point, I think, is to figure out why your GMATPrep score dropped so that you can avoid having that happen again on the real test. You can do that without taking another practice test. Here's a link to an article that can help you figure out what happened and what to do about it:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/26/my-score-dropped-figuring-out-what-went-wrong
If you can figure out what went wrong and what to do to avoid having that happen again, then that should (properly!) boost your confidence, because you're working from the actual data and know what really happened.
I do think it's a good idea to do some very easy warm-up problems on the day of the exam. I'd do no more than 15 minutes' worth of the easiest problems in your area of greatest strength. Don't check the answers. Don't do hard ones. (Think of an athlete: you jog slowly around the track and stretch lightly to warm up. You don't do anything strenuous for fear of injuring yourself right before the big game. Similarly, you don't do hard problems and get frustrated, and you don't even check answers on the easy ones so that you don't notice that careless mistake you just made right before the test...)
Today and tomorrow, I'd use that article above to figure out what went wrong on the GMATPrep test and what you can do to avoid having it happen again on the real test. If it's something that can't be fixed in three days, you're going to have to make a hard choice: do you go in and take the chance anyway, or do you postpone your test? (For example, let's say that you hadn't been doing the essays on your MGMAT tests but you did do the essays on your GMATPrep test. Your GMATPrep test is the more valid figure and your MGMAT scores are likely inflated due to the advantage of not having to write the essays first. That indicates a stamina issue, and that's not likely to be fixed in 3 days, so you may have to think about postponing the test. On the other hand, let's say that you took that GMATPrep test the day after you took an MGMAT test, and you took the GMATPrep test after a long day of studying - in other words, your brain was tired before you took the test. Well, you can do something about that for the real test!)
Mon maybe 2 hours max if you're working, 4 hours if you'r enot. Tue, 1-2 hours max. Do a high-level review of your major strategies across all of the question types and content areas. Review your pacing and educated guessing strategies. Get everything ready to go. Get a good night's sleep. Etc. :)
The major issue at this point, I think, is to figure out why your GMATPrep score dropped so that you can avoid having that happen again on the real test. You can do that without taking another practice test. Here's a link to an article that can help you figure out what happened and what to do about it:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/26/my-score-dropped-figuring-out-what-went-wrong
If you can figure out what went wrong and what to do to avoid having that happen again, then that should (properly!) boost your confidence, because you're working from the actual data and know what really happened.
I do think it's a good idea to do some very easy warm-up problems on the day of the exam. I'd do no more than 15 minutes' worth of the easiest problems in your area of greatest strength. Don't check the answers. Don't do hard ones. (Think of an athlete: you jog slowly around the track and stretch lightly to warm up. You don't do anything strenuous for fear of injuring yourself right before the big game. Similarly, you don't do hard problems and get frustrated, and you don't even check answers on the easy ones so that you don't notice that careless mistake you just made right before the test...)
Today and tomorrow, I'd use that article above to figure out what went wrong on the GMATPrep test and what you can do to avoid having it happen again on the real test. If it's something that can't be fixed in three days, you're going to have to make a hard choice: do you go in and take the chance anyway, or do you postpone your test? (For example, let's say that you hadn't been doing the essays on your MGMAT tests but you did do the essays on your GMATPrep test. Your GMATPrep test is the more valid figure and your MGMAT scores are likely inflated due to the advantage of not having to write the essays first. That indicates a stamina issue, and that's not likely to be fixed in 3 days, so you may have to think about postponing the test. On the other hand, let's say that you took that GMATPrep test the day after you took an MGMAT test, and you took the GMATPrep test after a long day of studying - in other words, your brain was tired before you took the test. Well, you can do something about that for the real test!)
Mon maybe 2 hours max if you're working, 4 hours if you'r enot. Tue, 1-2 hours max. Do a high-level review of your major strategies across all of the question types and content areas. Review your pacing and educated guessing strategies. Get everything ready to go. Get a good night's sleep. Etc. :)
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- Anonymous1123
- Course Students
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- Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:16 am
Re: Math score not improving after 3 MGMAT tests - what to do?
Stacey,
Those are great tips. Thanks for your quick reponse. I really appreciate it.
I don't think I will take one more test given your comments. I took all the tests with the essays. On the GMATPrep I did too many dumb mistakes (like not dividing by 2), so the score went down on quant. So, I am OK on the confidence side although higher score would have surely helped. Again, the warmup analogy helps.
Hope to keep you posted.
Thanks once again,
Virendra
Those are great tips. Thanks for your quick reponse. I really appreciate it.
I don't think I will take one more test given your comments. I took all the tests with the essays. On the GMATPrep I did too many dumb mistakes (like not dividing by 2), so the score went down on quant. So, I am OK on the confidence side although higher score would have surely helped. Again, the warmup analogy helps.
Hope to keep you posted.
Thanks once again,
Virendra