Is GMAT prep Verbal is different from Manhattan verbal

[Everything OR Nothing]

Dear Stacy,
I have been taking full length tests both from GMAT prep Software and Manhattan.
I have realized that I score fair enough ( 34-38) and I atleast understand the questions from Manhattan.I can easily eliminate 3 answer choices and even the 4th one.
But some of GMAT prep test questions goes over the the head.No clue at all(always scoring in 24-25)
In my real GMAT also I faced so many questions that do not fit to any rules that I learned from my Mahattan guides or Official guides.Specially could not see any pattern in SC problems of real GMAT..could not put them in modifier error or parallelism error snd so on..

Is it true that real GMAT is totally different than what we are learning from these resources?
I do always correct when i solve questions from OG or Manhattan books (within time constraint ) but in test by GMATPREP I flunk..Many questions go over the head.. why why why.Please help me.I am in dire need of a good GMAT score.

I took tests from Manhattan and Kaplan.I scored above 35 in verbal even after having 15-18 wrong answers in verbal sections.And the wrong answers are just randomly distributed.same is the case with GMATPREP.But i scored 26 after doing 17-18 mistakes in GMATPREP as well as real GMAT.the distribution of wrong answers are just almost same as Manhattan and kaplan tests.
And in verbal section I have to skip 4-5 questions always to complete on time. and I choose to skip 4-5 in random.
How to improve my critical reasoning speed without loosing accuracy,it has been stagnant although I feel i am good at it.I have finished all books possible .now i am kind of shortage of materials to practice from .
How can I improve my score to near 40.

[StaceyKoprince]

Yes, they're different - completely different people are writing the two tests. :) We do try our best to mimic the real test, but there are always differences just literally based on the fact that different authors are writing the materials.

Are you struggling with all of verbal in GMATPrep or primarily Sentence Correction? More SC questions lately look like the ones discussed in this article:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... orrection/

They deal with more complex structures and the splits are much more complicated. We've been updating our tests but it does take time - it takes a long time to write one good question!

I have finished all books possible .now i am kind of shortage of materials to practice from .

This gives me one good clue as to what's going wrong: you're doing a bunch of questions, but I'm guessing that you don't spend enough time really digging in and analyzing them. You don't actually get better by DOING problems. You get better by analyzing (after you're done doing the problem) both the problems themselves and your own work and thought process.

You should literally spend a minimum of 5 to 10 minutes analyzing one single question - a question that only took you a minute or two to do! And you might even spend longer - it's not unheard of to spend 20+ minutes on one question (and related activities, such as looking things up in books, looking for alternative explanations, re-reading rules, making flashcards or doing some drills, etc).

Read the how to study / how to learn section of this article:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmat/

You also mention timing issues and that can cause serious problems for your score. Read these and start doing what they say.

These first two will help with your overall mindset:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... to-win-it/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -to-do-it/

This third one will help you with the nitty-gritty details of managing your time:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... nt-part-1/

Have you been using our CR process?
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... g-problem/

It's important to know what to expect at each stage of the 4-step process for each question type. After you look at the main article above, try out some problems:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... e-Problem/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -problems/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... n-problem/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... n-problem/

You didn't mention Reading Comp - how is that?

Finally, back to your comment that you are out of materials - no, you're not. :) You aren't done studying those problems, because you didn't actually get what you needed out of them in the first place. Look through the "how to study" stuff in the article I linked up top and start to practice your problem analysis, then come back here and tell me how it's going. Good luck!

[Everything OR Nothing]

Dear Stacey,
Thanks for your time and effort to help me out.
Yes ,most of the real GMAT and GMATPREP SC questions are really confusing for me.I find it hard to find splits.

Right now my strategy is to reduce my time in SC questions so that I can put normal time in RC+CR .
As I have realised I can't improve my RC and CR drastically nor I can improve my timing in these 2 sections .

So only way to create extra time by improving SC time.

3 more questions:

1. Maximum how many questions I can afford to answer incorrectly and still manage to get 40 in verbal (provided my wrong answers are just randomly distributed?

2. Is it a good strategy to quit one RC in the middle if I am running short of time.Doing so will I lose huge margin,provided all the RC questions that I skipped become wrong? or is it better to quit just after analyzing questions for atleast 10 second ( from my experience 10 seconds dnt give me any idea whether I will be able to solve particular question or not)

3.In quantitative sections I am unable to improve from 49 to 51 level.What guide or strategy you would recommend me?
As of now my timing seems to be ok (but i take 3.5-4 minutes in some questions in quant and in some i take 30 seconds ; So far I have been able to finish quant section on time always though)
(My relative weak areas Inequality,absolute values, permutation/combinations and probability)

[StaceyKoprince]

Maximum how many questions I can afford to answer incorrectly and still manage to get 40 in verbal

I can't answer this - nobody can. There isn't one number - that's just not how this test works. I strongly urge you to learn more about how the test is scored so that you don't find yourself hung up on getting questions wrong. That'll just distract you during the test and won't help in any way.

Read the "Scoring" section of our free e-book The GMAT Uncovered.

Also, read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... to-win-it/

And this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/GMAT-tennis.cfm

2. Is it a good strategy to quit one RC in the middle if I am running short of time.

If you are already running short of time, then you have to skip something. Otherwise, you can't get caught up again. :) Ideally, though, you want to be doing this throughout the section, so that you don't have to skip a bunch of questions in a row. Choose the hardest ones that you see throughout (based both on the wording of what you're reading and your knowledge of your own strengths and weaknesses) so that you can mostly keep yourself on time.

Plan to have to outright guess on 4 to 7 questions per section! (Note: this does not refer to spending more than one minute on the problem and then guessing. This refers to being less than 30 seconds in and just saying, "Nope, forget it! I'm guessing and moving on.")

but i take 3.5-4 minutes in some questions in quant and in some i take 30 seconds ; So far I have been able to finish quant section on time always though)

It doesn't matter that you can finish - your timing is problematic. Do you never make careless mistakes? Do you get 100% of those 3.5 to 4 minute questions right? If not, you're wasting your time, because you're guaranteeing yourself other wrong answers elsewhere due to lack of time.

If you want to hit 51 (the top quant score), you can't have ANY problems with timing.

Analyze your tests:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... to-win-it/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -to-do-it/

Then start using this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... nt-part-1/

(I know I already linked those in my last post, but you've got to start using them.)

You may also want to take a look at our Advanced Quant book. This doesn't teach you advanced math (not really - that's mostly in the advanced chapters of our regular quant strategy guides). Rather, the Advanced Quant book focuses on advanced solution methods / techniques.

[Everything OR Nothing]

Dear Stacey,
It has been almost 2 months since you guided me with the above strategic points. Thanks you.
In last 2 months I have gone through only the explanations by Manhattan tutors in several forums.I must say, You people are the best in this domain.

I have improved my sentence correction by now.
Although I am almost 95% correct answering CR questions in non exam environment.

In real mock tests: I am always running short of time in last 7 questions of verbal.I am trying my best to apply your timing matrix,But it seems I have to sacrifice one RC in the middle of the exam to cope up the shortage of time.

1.My question is that skipping complete 4 questions (wild guessing) in a row will keep my chances alive to score 45 in Verbal???
2. I have taken test of Manhattan /Kaplan and GMATPREP.
I am really confused with the outcome of the results.
A. Manhattan ( 660-680 always. My verbal score gets drastically low if i make 4-5 mistakes in a row even after first 6-7 being correct) around 22/41 correct/Total

B. Kaplan ( I score 700-720 always.My verbal score reaches a decent level after making first 7-8 correct in a row ,no matter even I make 5 mistakes in row and languish for time at the end .
around 22/41 correct total almost always.

C. GMAT PREP ( i find it the toughest :( ,always scoring in 600-630 range. The scenario is same here. Moreover Some of the verbal section problems have become familiar now.So can not repeat these 2 mock anymore to judge my true position.

3. You mentioned about coming up with some new guide/material ,which will include the problems as per the latest GMAT format( SC in GMAT is too tough ,with hardly any clearly visible splits).

4. I have almost completed reading each explanation in GMAT PREP verbal forum and it immensely helped me to improve SC .I almost spent 15-20 minutes per analysis.

Now,How can I improve my CR and RC in real exam scenario..I feel my basic in CR is good. But I am taking way too much time (2.5 min to 3 min ).I feel strategically I am lagging somewhere.

Please advise me ,what else should I do now. I want to go for GMAT with expectation of 750 in 40 day. Enough of procrastination (since I took GMAT last time I am trying hard to gain confidence with extensive studies,But something is going wrong here )

GMAT GMAT and GMAT is running in all my blood ,mind .
Lately I have become bit impatient thinking about ...when will I get my target score.Even when I go for a movie, I go out for dinner ,I do not enjoy anymore..Somewhere GMAT is pinching my head.

Please help me out.

[StaceyKoprince]

It sounds like you've been making some good progress - that's great.

You've still got a roadblock on your overall mindset though and that's going to continue to frustrate you until you fix it. Read this. If you have already read it, read it again. And again:

https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... lly-tests/

As long as you continue to try to take the test as though your main goal is to get everything right, you will continue to take too long on some questions and you will run out of time at the end of the section. Then your score will go down.

The test is purposely TRYING to put you in a situation where you don't have enough time. You CANNOT get good enough that you will not have timing issues! They are actually testing you on how well you react to limited time! Can you cut yourself off and move on? They WANT you to do this.

I'm going to repeat something I said in my last post:

Ideally, though, you want to be doing this [guessing quickly on some questions] throughout the section, so that you don't have to skip a bunch of questions in a row. Choose the hardest ones that you see throughout (based both on the wording of what you're reading and your knowledge of your own strengths and weaknesses) so that you can mostly keep yourself on time.

So, no, don't guess on one entire RC passage - that's too many questions in a row. Guess on the hardest questions, of any type, as you see them throughout the entire section. STOP trying to get everything right!

You ask whether you can guess on 4 questions in a row and still hit 45 on verbal. First, I have to point out that 45 on verbal is the 99th percentile. Literally only 1% of test takers score that high or higher on verbal. So, no, you can't get 4 questions wrong in a row and still score in the 99th percentile on verbal. You don't need a score that high though. No school is going to reject you if your verbal is "only" 90th, or even 80th, percentile.

The pattern you are seeing on our tests is generally how things are going to work on the real test - your score will drop if you have a bunch of questions wrong in a row or a higher proportion of questions wrong than normal in a string of questions. If you run out of time with a bunch of questions left at the end, your score will drop a lot.

Because you are struggling most with real-GMAT-SC questions, try to study from real questions as much as possible. Your goal here is not to do a bunch of new questions. Your goal is to take the existing questions and really study / pick them apart until you understand how they constructed the problem, how they made it hard, how they got you to fall into a trap.

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmat/

That's what you're trying to learn at this stage.

So go back over old OG and GMATPrep questions. Don't forget about the free questions in GMATPrep. You can also buy a question pack that contains about 200 verbal and 200 quant questions - this is through GMATPrep and you'll view the questions in that software.

But don't just start doing a bunch of new questions. Learn HOW to do this on questions you've already done first, even if it takes you half an hour per question to fully analyze and pull it apart. Until you know how these work, you're just going to keep struggling with new questions.

For CR and RC, same general process. :)

Here are some resources on CR:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... reasoning/

For RC, I just submitted an article today that's like the above CR article, but for RC. Check our blog next week - I'm not sure which day it's going to be published. (I think it's going to be published on Beat the GMAT sometime earlier in the week - maybe Tue.)

Finally, but most importantly, you are stressing yourself out and that's going to make it harder for you to hit your goal. A 750 is the 98th percentile - only 2 percent of testers will score that high or higher. No school on the planet requires a 750+ score. (And if the rest of your application isn't good enough, then scoring 750+ will NOT get you in!)

Read this:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... es-update/

And consider doing some meditation to help calm your thoughts so that you can perform better on test day:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... mat-score/

[Everything OR Nothing]

Dear Ron and Stacey,
With sadness and shame,I have to inform you that I took GMAT yesterday.The result is same as I scored 2 years before.

IR-6
QUant-49 ( 49 ,I got in the year 2011 too)
verbal- 24 (24 ,I got in the year 2011 too)
Overall-610

Difference in feeling:

This time I went through all verbal forums and analysis as advised by you.I felt confident in SC and CR this time.I could figure out definite correct answers in most of them. But sadly,in RC I felt like a dyslexic during the exam.I never saw such long passage( got total 4 passages,2 were very long and answer choices contained long sentences) in any practice material anywhere.I need to improve RC time drastically.I need to improve assimilation of RC passages.in CR too I need to improve timing.I went through all strategy and timing related blogs that yo referred in your previous post.Still I can never complete the verbal section on time.

In practice tests in Manhattan I always scored in the range of 31-36 (overall in the range of 670 to 700

and in GMAT prep software I always scored 24-31 (in verbal ) and overall: 600 to 640 .

While coming back from test centre I puked all the way in the taxi because I felt so much defeated( I have the problem of not being able to sleep one day before exam,So i take ZOLFRESH, a mild sedative,but its mild effect was there till next day 4PM (my exam slot).But the sedative is not the prime reason,I could think properly,My brain was working ok I guess.The more I think what if I cant sleep tonight,the more I can't sleep.That is a problem I consulted with doctors too.

I am not going to quit this struggle.Please suggest a roadmap from now onwards. What should be my plans to start fresh for a dream 750 score.

I am sorry again for not being able to give you good news even after your enormous help and support.

[StaceyKoprince]

I'm so sorry to hear that you're having such a difficult time with this test.

(I also apologize for the delay in response - this time of year is extremely busy and we're drowning under the volume of work!)

Still I can never complete the verbal section on time.

This comment illustrates a larger issue. Many people take the test believing that their primary goal is to answer as many questions correctly as possible. It isn't. Your primary goal is to finish the section on time, giving adequate time to a majority of the questions, but cutting yourself off on others and actively not trying to get everything right!*

*Well, of course, if you were capable of answering every single question correctly in the given amount of time, you would do so. But less than 1/2 of 1% of the testing population can do this - it is very unusual.

The GMAT is testing you on how well you make decisions. They are purposely putting you into situations where a question is too hard for you or you won't have enough time, because they are trying to see whether you can make the hard decision to cut yourself off and move on to another opportunity. This is exactly what a good business person has to do: you have to choose to pursue certain opportunities and choose to let other opportunities go. You can't pursue every single opportunity because you then risk winning none of them, and your company will fail.

How does this play out on the GMAT?

You WILL have to guess on some questions. Your only choice is when. You can do nothing, and then you will have to guess on the last 3, or 5, or 10 questions when you run out of time.

Or you can selectively choose the hardest questions throughout the section and let those go when you see them, so that you can then make it to the end of the section.

If you want to improve your score, you MUST make this mindset switch. You can't continue to try to take the test like a school test, where the goal is to answer everything correctly (as much as you can).

It also sounds like you are experiencing pretty severe test anxiety and I'm glad that you have met with a doctor about this. I think this really contributed to your test experience, especially during the verbal section - you were already feeling stress and when you hit that hard passage, that might have caused panic, which would have made it harder to concentrate on the rest of the test. Continue to consult with your doctor and to try alternative methods to relieve anxiety.

https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... mat-score/

In terms of moving forward, you have been working on your own for 2 years now (I think - I scanned through our posts and I didn't see a mention of taking classes or working with a tutor). You have made progress in certain areas but you are still struggling with some of the same issues (in particular, the mindset and timing issues), so it may be time to work with someone. Do you have the resources to be able to join a class or work with a tutor privately? If not, can you ask your friends whether they know someone who has done well on the GMAT and has teaching experience? If you want, you can ask that person to come and post here and I can try to help him or her to help you - but at this point I think you need to be working with someone who can try to diagnose the issues directly and figure out what to do from there.