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amit1234
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by amit1234 Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:45 am

RonPurewal Wrote:
thanghnvn Wrote:Ron, Manhantan experts, pls confirm my points
there are 3 uses of COMMA WITH PHRASE

1. it can modify a clause without refering to a specific noun in the clause as in the following sentence from gmatprep.

//Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people now// using their mobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, when numerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively small monthly fee.

With the cost of wireless service plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasingly common, many people are

"with phrase" DOSE NOT refer to "people"


correct.
make sure you don't think that this is anything "special", though -- this is how prepositional phrases work in general when they are placed in this initial position.
i.e., if you have
prep phrase modifier + , + (main sentence)
... then the prep phrase modifier should describe the whole clause that follows, not just the subject.

2, it can mofify a immidiately preceding noun as in the question of this topic.

3, it can modify a clause and refers to a noun in the clause

with good spirit, I learn gmat again. ("with phrase" refers to "I")

3 uses are correct. pls, help, confirm.


this seems accurate.


Hi Ron,
i am confused....
what if these prepositional phrases are not at initial position?

I mean how the placement of the prepositional phrase matters?

can you please clarify the difference of placing prepositional phrase at initial position and later position?
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by jlucero Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:33 pm

getmydream Wrote:Hi Ron,
i am confused....
what if these prepositional phrases are not at initial position?

I mean how the placement of the prepositional phrase matters?

can you please clarify the difference of placing prepositional phrase at initial position and later position?


The same rules apply for prepositional phrases functioning as adjectives- put them next (or as close as possible) to the noun that they are describing.

With prepositional phrases functioning as adverbs, placing them at the beginning or the end of the sentence helps to make it more clear that they refer to the whole clause, rather than breaking up the clause with an extra piece of info.
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by thanghnvn Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:24 pm

sorry for talking too much.

comma+with phrase can not modify the preceding noun. it must modify the previous clause.

that is why d is wrong

"with phrase" following a noun modifies that noun (there is no comma)

is my thinking correct ? pls confirm
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by thanghnvn Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:40 pm

"comma+with phrase" can modifie slightly far noun

I believe in the persons of good health, with good spirit because they can do big things.

"comma+with good spirit" can modifie "persons"

is the above sentence correct? pls confirm

thank you Manhanan experts.
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by thanghnvn Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:44 pm

dear Manhantan experts,

logically , comma+with phrase can modifie the slightly far noun

but I do not see this pattern appear in og books.

is that right?
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by thanghnvn Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:12 am

In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing Shopping for a Better World, with the sample thesis of consumers having the power to change companies by the simple expedient of refusing to buy.


A. Same
B. which had the simple thesis of consumers having
C. where the thesis was simple: consumers having
D. with a thesis that is a simple one: consumers have
E. whose thesis was simple: consumers have

absolute phrase appear frequently on og and gmatprep, so the understanding of it is a must.

absolute phrase may have or may not have a preposition such as "with"

if absolute phrase has a preposition "with", "with" may or may not refer to a specific noun in the main clause while the absolute phrase modifies the main clause.

"with phrase " in choice A is not an absolute phrase, so "with " must refer to a specific noun in the main clause. "with " in A can not refer to immediately preceding noung because "with" has comma. "with" in A has no noun to refer to while "with" modifies the total main clause. this situation is wrong.

but my question is

what is the absolute phrase? what is the difference between prepostional phrase as adverb and absolute phrase?
we really need to understand these things because meaning relation is the main game of SC.

pls help explain. Thank you Manhantan experts.
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by thanghnvn Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:31 am

sorry for continuing the posting

my spirit good, I learn gmat

an absolute phrase is used

with my good spirit, I learn gmat

a prepositional phrase is used.

why the first is called absolute phrase and the second is called prepostional phrase? pls explain.
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by thanghnvn Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:40 am

sorry, I edit.

my spirit good, I learn gmat

an absolute phrase is used

with good spirit, I learn gmat (there is no "my")

a prepositional phrase is used.

why the first is called absolute phrase and the second is called prepostional phrase? pls explain.
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by tim Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:33 am

thanghnvn Wrote:sorry for talking too much.

comma+with phrase can not modify the preceding noun. it must modify the previous clause.

that is why d is wrong

"with phrase" following a noun modifies that noun (there is no comma)

is my thinking correct ? pls confirm


correct
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by tim Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:35 am

thanghnvn Wrote:"comma+with phrase" can modifie slightly far noun

I believe in the persons of good health, with good spirit because they can do big things.

"comma+with good spirit" can modifie "persons"

is the above sentence correct? pls confirm

thank you Manhanan experts.


no, there are several things wrong with this sentence. i have observed that in all the posts i have seen from you i have never seen you create a grammatically correct sentence as an example. the good news is that you don't have to! sentence correction is not about creating correct sentences; it is just about finding mistakes. you should focus more of your energy on identifying mistakes rather than trying to construct correct sentences..
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by tim Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:37 am

thanghnvn Wrote:absolute phrase appear frequently on og and gmatprep, so the understanding of it is a must.
[...]
what is the absolute phrase? what is the difference between prepostional phrase as adverb and absolute phrase?
we really need to understand these things because meaning relation is the main game of SC.


i fundamentally disagree that understanding absolute phrases is a must, and i strongly encourage you to restrict your study to more relevant issues..
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by nimeshika21 Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:23 am

Can "whose" be used to refer to animals as well ?
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by winnershailesh Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:29 am

nimeshika21 Wrote:Can "whose" be used to refer to animals as well ?


yes, WHOSE can be used to refer to anything living/non living,animals,plants ,and even to humans.
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Re: In 1988, the council on Economic Priorities began publishing

by tim Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:11 pm

"Whose" can indeed refer to animals.
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Re:

by gauravtyagigmat Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:51 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:note: i'll assume that "sample" in the original is meant to be "simple".

--

in both (a) and (b), "having the power..." is an -ing modifier that's not followed by a comma. therefore, it's a modifier that serves as an adjective, modifying the immediately preceding noun (= "consumers").

the problem, then, is that this modifier - since it's a modifier - can be omitted from the basic structure of the sentence, leaving behind the following skeleton:
...with the simple thesis of consumers.
uh-oh.
consumers aren't a thesis.


when any modifier is not followed by a comma thats a essential modifier..hence we can not remove that modifier
noun +comma + modifier non essential modifier (can be removed)
noun + no comma+ modifier essential modifier (can not be removed )

please explain why we are removing ing modifier here as it is not followed by comma