Improvement in my verbal

[jnelson0612]

Hi Suresh,
Stacey is actually out this week and I am filling in for her. Because you and she have worked so much together, rather than respond I am going to email her to tell her to start with this post when she returns. Thank you and best wishes in your studies!

[StaceyKoprince]

for the first time I touched a score of 700, I hope this is a real improvement from my side(or this sudden jump has any issues?).

That's great! Did you take the test under 100% official conditions, including essays and length of breaks? If so, then that's looking really good!

The primary reason people face timing problems: they get stubborn and don't let go on questions that are too hard. ("Too hard" does not only mean "I can't get it right." "Too hard" means "I can't get it right in 2 minutes - or 2.5 minutes max." So if it takes you 3m15s to get something right, then that one is actually too hard for you.)

So that's probably what's going on with you, too - you're not letting go when you should be letting go, and then that hurts you in the end. For any "too long" questions that you did eventually get right, go back and see whether you can learn how to do these in a 2 to 2.5 minute time frame. If so, great. If not, figure out how to make a good educated guess. For the "too long and wrong" questions, figure out how and when you should have known to cut yourself off, and then figure out how to make a good educated guess.

RCs can come anywhere, so you just have to be prepared for that - but hopefully they won't come that close together on Real Test Day. :)

Re: changing answers, once you have picked an answer on a problem, DO NOT change it UNLESS you absolutely know that you made a mistake and that the one you already picked is absolutely definitely 100% wrong. Otherwise, stick with your first instinct.

You did the right thing in the last couple of days (besides partying :) - you can do some light, high level review (what are my pacing and timing goals, what are my overall strategies), but not for more than about 1.5 hours on the day before. The day before that, not more than 2-3 hours max (and you don't even need to do that much).

Okay, what to do next? First, you have read this timing article already and are doing what it says, right? (Sorry, our thread is so long now that I can't remember anymore what we've already discussed!)
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... anagement/

If so, just keep working on it - timing is always a struggle.

Next, use this article to do a thorough analysis of the test you just took:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Come back here and share your analysis (not just the raw data - your detailed analysis) and we can point you towards more specific resources (eg, if you take too long on CR Find the Assumption questions or whatever). You can also then search our articles and Ron's videos for topics that address any specific weaknesses that you discover when doing that analysis.

For the One Word Wrong stuff on RC, did that tend to happen across all question types or only certain ones? What led you astray? Did you overlook the word when reading the choice? Did you not go back and check for the proof in the passage? Etc.

Congrats - keep up the great work!

[sureshreddy003]

Hi Stacey,

Welcome back! Hope you had a great holiday :)

I did not post until you replied as I did not want my post to be pushed at the end of your loop. So, I had a practice test taken by the time you replied and also had another test this week. I would post analysis(a brief one) on both of these separately.

MGMAT 4 - 680(Q47, V35) - 14/4/2012

Though I was bit happy with the result of this test, I felt disgusted that my scoring was coming down in maths from 50 to 47. No, this cannot happen to me as I have to maintain consistency at least in Maths. During the test, I was going well ahead of time and I was getting questions which were easily solvable. I felt either my previous answers were wrong, which is why I am getting easier questions or all the 700 level question in MGMAT database were exhausted.

During Verbal, by the time I reached question 25, I felt that I was far behind in time(5 min lag) and as a result got tensed and there was a pressure on my mind, which did not allow me to grasp the gist of CR and RC's. The timing problem was because of a new issue this time. Last time I got all the RC's at the beginning of the test and this time I got only 1 RC until question 25 and got 3 RC's in the next 18 questions(i.e 10 out of next 18 were RC). Ahh, MGMAT is not allowing me to score well in verbal with this ;)

After analysis, I found that in Maths I made silly mistakes(may be I was doing problems fast). Until this test, I was lagging in time and in this test when I did problem at a faster rate, I ended up committing silly mistakes. In Verbal, until question 24 I was in 99%(got 5 wrong) and in the next 18q I got 12 wrong(both because of RC's & timing). If I had maintained time, I could have ended up with a fairly good score on verbal.

In the last 18q, I got 5RC wrong, 6CR wrong and this was because I felt pressurized with the time and could not read properly. My only positive is SC, as I got only 3 wrong out of 15q.
Coming to timing in Verbal, I am spending about 2.2-2.5minutes in Weaken/Strengthen/Explain/Except questions. In RC, I am spending > 2min on details questions(where I need to go through the passage again). If I face some timing issues in between, then it is due to these things. I did not face timing issues in Maths for this test, but in the next test I was back on track facing timing problems which I am discussing in the below new post ..


Thanks,
Suresh

[sureshreddy003]

After the above test, my health broke down and I could not study or revise anything this week, just had a glance on Saturday for about 2 hours as I did not want to burn myself out.

MGMAT 5 - 650(Q49, V31) - 84%le(this is 670 as per GMAT)

I was very disappointed with this result, as I had to at least maintain 680 score which I was doing in the past 3 tests. This low score may be because I did not study or try to improve in this week or because I did not go with my gut feeling when selecting answers, which I was doing in the last 3 tests.

Again in this test, I faced timing issues in Maths. After question 18, I found that I was lagging behind 3minutes, so I decide to give up few questions, but I did not do it blindly. I remembered your say, only guess questions which you feel you cannot solve. So I got those kind of questions and guessed about 2 and by question 25, I was back on track with time. This timing issue is because I start solving questions and when I suddenly see the time, I find that I had already spent 2 minutes, then I would get tensed and would not be able to think further. I guessed about 3q in this test, after I solved them for 2.5 minutes.

Also, though I was maintaining 85+% level, I got only 600 level questions in the test, may be all the 700 level questions are exhausted in the database. I am spending maximum time on questions related to Rates/Geometry/Number properties(Cons.integers, divisibility). While practicing, I am maintaining time of <2min for most of the questions. Earlier I used to set a timer of 15minutes and then solve 10 questions(may be I would have taken less time for few ques n more time for others). So I again studied your timing article and from this week, I am practicing with a stop clock and clicking it for every problem(this gives me specific time spent for each question). I found my weak areas in Maths(which are actually not) and I would be practicing Time & dist/work, geometry, Prob, number properties this week.

Coming to verbal, I did not had any timing issues as I maintained my calm and solved everything within time. Even in this test, I performed well in SC, but screwed in CR & RC. I got 8 wrong in CR & 6 wrong in RC. I got a continuous loop of questions wrong and this is not because of stamina issues. The only mistake I did in this test was not going with my initial feeling and changed my answers. I made about 5 mistakes for which I knew the answer(mostly CR) and I was tempted to go with the other answer(thought too much). From now, If I delete the options and remain with one answer, which I feel correct then I would not re-check the options again at least for CR.

Until question 30, I made many mistakes and was in 40%, and luckily I got most of the next 11q correct and ended up with a better score. So from past two tests, I find that both results don't have any relation. Last one I was going well until I had timing issue, and now in this I maintained time, but some how committed mistakes. I never go too fast at least in verbal section. I know that this is a drastic drop from 35 to 31 in verbal, but I would try to come back this week, by concentrating more on CR & RC.

I have booked my date on May 11th and I have 3 weeks left for this. May be by the time you reply for this post, 1 week would be gone. Based on my next week score(I need 680+), I would decide if I have to re-schedule my test extending for another 10days.

I have 1 MGMAT & GMATPREP2 tests remaining with me now, do you suggest me to take GMATPREP this week and MGMAT b4 the last week of original test? Also, how many days prior should I take my last practice test and also suggest what things I need to do/not do on the last 3 days before my test-day. I do not want to commit same mistakes which I had done last time and I do not want to appear for the test again. I have to get a score now, so that I can work on my resume in the coming months( I am parking most of my decisions only because of this test).

Please advice.


Thanks,
Suresh

[StaceyKoprince]

Hi! First post first.

We have a ton of 700+ Qs in the database, so you shouldn't be running out of quant Qs on T4. You were going really fast - sure you weren't making some careless mistakes on things that you actually did know how to do? That would have brought down both your score and the difficulty level of other questions. (Came back to add: just got to your third paragraph and saw that you did have careless mistakes. :)

Re: RC, that could happen on the real test too! You've got to be prepared for that. I make a little dot on my left hand (I'm right handed) every time a new passage starts. Then I can glance at my hand at any time and see how many I've had already. Then, when I check my time, I'll be able to adjust accordingly.

For example, if I'm around Q20, I'd normally expect to have started about 2 passages. If I only have 1 dot, then I should also have more time left over than I'd normally expect at that point. (Q20 is about the halfway mark on verbal, so I'd normally expect to have about 38 minutes left. But if I've only had 1 passage so far, I'd want to have 40 or 41 minutes left instead.)

In Verbal, until question 24 I was in 99%(got 5 wrong) and in the next 18q I got 12 wrong(both because of RC's & timing). If I had maintained time, I could have ended up with a fairly good score on verbal.

Not quite the right takeaway here. You shouldn't have spent that extra time, which literally means that you should NOT have gotten up to 99th percentile. You can only do that (right now anyway) by spending extra time, which you can't afford to do because then your score drops to 75th percentile by the end.

INSTEAD: cut off some of the hardest questions faster. Maybe your score is only at 85th instead of 99th, but then you won't run out of time so you'll be able to maintain the 85th all the way through. Think steady.

You were sick and couldn't study much, but you then took another practice test. Why? Don't spend your super-valuable time taking a practice test unless you have a really good reason to do so - and that means that you have had the time to learn how to get better, fix weaknesses, etc.

This timing issue is because I start solving questions and when I suddenly see the time, I find that I had already spent 2 minutes, then I would get tensed and would not be able to think further.

You're always going to have some questions where you spend your 2 minutes but aren't getting anywhere. You can't change that part. All you can change is your reaction. Remember "In it to win it?" Say "Nice shot! You got me on that one!" and move on. Don't stress out - you're going to get questions that are too hard. You win the game when you can tell "Nope, this one's too hard. Moving on."

T5 now - yes, if you've been scoring 85th+ percentile since T1, then you may start to run out of 700+ questions in certain categories by T5. Most people aren't doing that. :)

It looks like your SC performance held up on both tests; that's great. I completely agree that you should not second-guess your answers. Once you've picked an answer, DO NOT CHANGE IT unless you absolutely know that the one you already picked is definitely wrong. (For example, you suddenly realize "oops, I missed that this sentence says the company is NOT profitable; I thought it said that it IS profitable!)

Otherwise, stick with your original answer, that's all.

Also, I agree that you now need to work on CR and RC.

Since you're going to use your next test results to help decide whether to keep your test date or postpone, go ahead and do GMATPrep. Do, however, time yourself on every question so that you have at least that data afterwards.

Last practice test should be 5 to 7 days before the real test, ideally at the same time of day (and under 100% official conditions!).

Finally, the last three days (the last week, really) should be all about review. Don't try to make big changes in strategy, don't worry as much about weaknesses at that point - just do a comprehensive review of all of your strategies and content for everything. (That review can include practicing problems as well - but your focus is review, not doing 8 million problems. :)

The closer you get to the real thing, the more you rest your brain. The day before, no more than about 2 hours, and just high level review. Two days before, no more than about 3 hours, again just review.

You can also look at these articles for more ideas about what to do towards the end:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... game-plan/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... to-review/

[sureshreddy003]

Hi Stacey,

I thought of taking MGMAT, but after your post I felt ya it's better to take GMATPREP. I don't know what happened during the test or what was running in my brain which made me do several silly and worst mistakes. When the score populated on the screen, I was just shocked and I did not expect this score even in the worst dream(after so much of hard work put in my second phase of prep)

Gmatprep2 - 570(Q44, V25)

First maths, I am not sure what kind of calculation happened and that score was populated. I cannot even expect that kind of score as per my maths standards. I got only 12q wrong and I got a score of 44. How is this possible?

In Gmatprep1, I got 10 wrong and got a score of 49, and earlier when I took gmatprep(in my 1st phase), even when I got about 12-15q wrong I used to get a score of 47, but this time I don't know how come I got such a low score of 44, when I got only 12q wrong. Ya I am aware that scoring does not depend on the number of questions wrong, but %le level does not decrease to such an extent, even when you get few wrong. Until ques 28 I got 6 wrong and in the next 10 questions I got 6 wrong(alternate questions). So as per logic I should have been on atleast 90%le at ques 28 and then as I got 6 questions wrong, my %le should have fallen by may be 15%le points, but I don't expect it to fall by 30 points to 60%le.

There was only 1 phase where I got 3 wrong continuously from 14-16) and then from ques 28, I did alternate questions wrong. I did not leave any question unanswered. Then why did such a low score of 44 populated? I am disgusted with this score and also with the mistakes I made during the test. From 12ques, I could have solved 9q easily, but I made simple n silly mistakes and I don't the reason. I tried to analyze, but cannot find a reason why did I do these mistakes during the exam. I felt I was not tensed and was calm, but not sure if other pressures were on my mind.

In verbal, until this test SC was my strong point, but as the bomb was waiting to explode, I committed mistakes and got most of the SC questions wrong. I repeated the same mistake of changing answers and just selecting other option, when I got to the correct answer. I thought that I was out of the situation of committing mistakes as I was practicing in all the previous tests. I did well in RC and I feel CR questions and their language pretty tough in gmatprep when compared to MGMAT.

From 2 days, I am feeling like a loser after getting such a low score. I am planning to postpone my date, but for now I do not find any dates to postpone, I hope that I will get some date by this Wednesday, if not I have to pay an additional 250$ :(

I did not had a great week as I was very disappointed with my appraisal, had a heated conversation with my manager. I was very disappointed, but I wanted to use this frustration in getting a good score, but it totally reversed. I was cool during the test, did not think much of office issues, but I don't know if these issues went on me at the back of my brain. Does this happen? just wanted to know, even if we don't think much, do we have effect on brain because of these issues. I do not want to site this a reason, but I am very disappointed with this result.

I am not sure, how feasible it would be to take gmatprep1 again after I postpone my date, as I may see questions which I solved earlier and may be I would get a inflated score. I have 1 MGMAT test with me for now. Also, suggest me how good it is for me to re-schedule my date in June ,if I won't get any date by this week, . I know I have to practice IR section and also write practice tests to get used to it, but just wanted to know, what to do if I don't have an option. Or do u suggest me to take MGMAT this Sunday and go ahead with the GMAT test as booked on 11th?

Please advice.


Thanks,
Suresh

[omkar.nadgauda]

Hi Stacey,

I thought of taking MGMAT, but after your post I felt ya it's better to take GMATPREP. I don't know what happened during the test or what was running in my brain which made me do several silly and worst mistakes. When the score populated on the screen, I was just shocked and I did not expect this score even in the worst dream(after so much of hard work put in my second phase of prep)

Gmatprep2 - 570(Q44, V25)

First maths, I am not sure what kind of calculation happened and that score was populated. I cannot even expect that kind of score as per my maths standards. I got only 12q wrong and I got a score of 44. How is this possible?

In Gmatprep1, I got 10 wrong and got a score of 49, and earlier when I took gmatprep(in my 1st phase), even when I got about 12-15q wrong I used to get a score of 47, but this time I don't know how come I got such a low score of 44, when I got only 12q wrong. Ya I am aware that scoring does not depend on the number of questions wrong, but %le level does not decrease to such an extent, even when you get few wrong. Until ques 28 I got 6 wrong and in the next 10 questions I got 6 wrong(alternate questions). So as per logic I should have been on atleast 90%le at ques 28 and then as I got 6 questions wrong, my %le should have fallen by may be 15%le points, but I don't expect it to fall by 30 points to 60%le.

There was only 1 phase where I got 3 wrong continuously from 14-16) and then from ques 28, I did alternate questions wrong. I did not leave any question unanswered. Then why did such a low score of 44 populated? I am disgusted with this score and also with the mistakes I made during the test. From 12ques, I could have solved 9q easily, but I made simple n silly mistakes and I don't the reason. I tried to analyze, but cannot find a reason why did I do these mistakes during the exam. I felt I was not tensed and was calm, but not sure if other pressures were on my mind.

In verbal, until this test SC was my strong point, but as the bomb was waiting to explode, I committed mistakes and got most of the SC questions wrong. I repeated the same mistake of changing answers and just selecting other option, when I got to the correct answer. I thought that I was out of the situation of committing mistakes as I was practicing in all the previous tests. I did well in RC and I feel CR questions and their language pretty tough in gmatprep when compared to MGMAT.

From 2 days, I am feeling like a loser after getting such a low score. I am planning to postpone my date, but for now I do not find any dates to postpone, I hope that I will get some date by this Wednesday, if not I have to pay an additional 250$ :(

I did not had a great week as I was very disappointed with my appraisal, had a heated conversation with my manager. I was very disappointed, but I wanted to use this frustration in getting a good score, but it totally reversed. I was cool during the test, did not think much of office issues, but I don't know if these issues went on me at the back of my brain. Does this happen? just wanted to know, even if we don't think much, do we have effect on brain because of these issues. I do not want to site this a reason, but I am very disappointed with this result.

I am not sure, how feasible it would be to take gmatprep1 again after I postpone my date, as I may see questions which I solved earlier and may be I would get a inflated score. I have 1 MGMAT test with me for now. Also, suggest me how good it is for me to re-schedule my date in June ,if I won't get any date by this week, . I know I have to practice IR section and also write practice tests to get used to it, but just wanted to know, what to do if I don't have an option. Or do u suggest me to take MGMAT this Sunday and go ahead with the GMAT test as booked on 11th?

Please advice.


Thanks,
Suresh

I had a similar experience last week. I gave gmatprep2 and got 650. I got few questions wrong that gmat prep1 but my score dropped by 50. I don't know what it is. But I am not paying attention to the score anyways. I looked at my mistakes and it seems I had 2 answers wrong in first 10 questions in both sections. That might have brought the score down.

Its important to learn the lesson and move forward. My test is this wednesday and I am pumped up. I woould suggest going with the schedule and taking the exam. You never know. You might end up getting a good score. Or it can be a little bit costly learning experience.

[StaceyKoprince]

Have you guys been using the old or the new GMATPrep software? (A new version was released about a month ago.)

Even if you've got some correct answers interspersed, you can still have quite a score drop if a large proportion of questions in a set is wrong. You mentioned getting 6 of the last 10 wrong - that could drop your score a decent amount. And you're assuming that your score was in the 90th percentile range leading into that sequence but there's no way for us to know that. It could have been lower.

Let's say it was 85th percentile and you ended up scoring 66th percentile. That's potentially reasonable for getting 6 of 10 wrong, depending on the difficulty levels of those questions.

I repeated the same mistake of changing answers and just selecting other option, when I got to the correct answer.

Don't change your answers. Ever. Not unless you can literally say - oh, this one I picked first is completely wrong because ______ (fill in the blank with an answer that nobody can dispute). Otherwise, you stick with your original answer.

If you are stressed out about other things then, yes, that can affect your test performance. It is possible that your work situation was part of the problem.

So, what to do? I would feel better if we could figure out why your performance dropped on both the quant and the verbal. Did you just have a bad day? Or are there weaknesses that all happened to come to the top at once, and we need to go address those things before you take the real test?

Have you seen this article before?
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ent-wrong/

It can help you to figure out why your score might've dropped. Read it and tell me what you think. Note, though, that it's Friday right now and I won't be back on here again before Sunday, so: I can't tell you whether to take the test or whether to postpone, but I can tell you what to think about when you decide.

Do you feel like it was a fluke? Do you still have confidence in yourself and your ability to hit the higher scores that you were getting on earlier practice tests? If so, then you may want to consider taking the test on Sunday.

Have you lost confidence? Do you know that, if you go in there, you're going to be thinking about that last bad test result and it's going to distract you? If so, then you may want to consider postponing.

[sureshreddy003]

Hi Stacey,

As I mentioned, yes I did not had a great week and may be all those issues came on me, so I took a break as I was not in a good mood, then thought what went wrong, why did I get such a low score.

Then I saw my analysis, I found ah I made many silly mistakes mostly in maths for the problems which I should have solved. Then in verbal I made most mistakes in SC, which is my strong point now. Then I prepared with Maths & verbal in this week. Did some problems to get my confidence back.

I took a practice test on Saturday and before taking the I reminded myself, I had pretty good scores earlier and last one may have been a fluke. So I did not worry much about the score, i thought let any score display on the screen, but I would give my best during the exam.

MGMAT6 - 660( Q46, V34) - 86%le

I am just satisfied with this score, but I am not happy seeing the Maths score. I should have scored above 48 on maths as I have a strong Maths background. On analysis, I found that I did some simple mistakes and in between spent some extra time on few problems. I had about 2 sets(3 wrong) in between and because of which my %le dropped. Importantly I got 4 out of last 6 wrong, ahh I cannot and should not be doing this on Maths.

Verbal, I am happy with the score as I was back on track on SC(got 3 wrong) and RC(6 wrong). CR I am getting answers, but I am getting stuck b/w 2 options and sometime selecting the most irrelevant answer. I hope I would not be doing this on the test day. I maintained my time very well on verbal as I had noted a time break up before the exam and maintained the number of question per breakup.

I tried to see if there are any dates to postpone, but I did not find and I am going ahead with the same date.In the next four days I would be doing a bit of maths and concentrate on basics & formulas as I cannot drop my score on Maths. Verbal I would go through MGMAT books once and practice some problems.

If I get a good score in verbal and avg score in Maths and at last receive a moderate score, I cannot be happy. I have to score good in Maths. If you happen to visit my thread before Friday, do post any suggestions. Leaving my 1st MGMAT score & GMATPREP2 score, I scored above 650 in all tests and average about 670. So I am hoping to get this score at least and if luck is on my side get another 10 points :)

Thanks in advance.



Thanks,
Suresh

[sureshreddy003]

Hi Stacey,

I still feel I had a bad dream as I could not believe what has just happened. My test bombarded and this time I cannot find any reason.I got a very low score even then the last time and I did not expect this at least in my 2nd schedule of preparation.

Actual GMAT - 550 (Q47, V19).

I got such a low score, when I started my preparation a year back and when I was unaware of what even GMAT was. I could not believe when this score popped up and was looking around in a shock. I knew that I did not do Maths section well as DS questions very pretty tough to solve. I was lagging in time in between, so I had to guess 2-3 questions to be back on time(ques of my weak area and not continuously). Verbal, I had maintained pretty good time in solving problems. After the 20th question, I felt that I was getting pretty tough questions, but I was confident that I am answering them correctly. I guessed only about 2 questions in the entire section. I was confident in SC & RC as I was marking answers perfectly. I was confident that I would get at least a score of 30.

I don't how did i get a score of 19 in verbal, I could get this score even without preparation. I am not sure, what went wrong or what happened during the exam. Everything went good as I kept my calm and just concentrated on the test. I took proper food and drinks during the breaks as I practiced.

I really cannot believe about the score and feel dejected after putting such a preparation for so long. What should I do now, Should I continue my preparation or should I feel that GMAT is not made for me and leave it aside. Also, would there be a negative on my profile if I go for a 3rd attempt? I though I would cross 650 any way this time but I still cannot see a reason for such a low score. I there a chance that there was some calculation mistake by GMAC or they wantedly gave tough questions(I felt during maths and verbal), I received pretty tough questions and felt that I was doing well and so I was receiving them.

I am still not sure how such a low score would impact my profile when evaluated by schools, even if score good in my next attempt. Tell me how feasible it is to go for a 3rd attempt and also tell me if I can really try for 1 more time.

Thanks,
Suresh

[StaceyKoprince]

I'm sorry you had such a rough test experience.

I was confident that I am answering them correctly. I guessed only about 2 questions in the entire section. I was confident in SC & RC as I was marking answers perfectly.

That right there tells us that something was going wrong - because we know you're only going to answer about 60% of the questions correctly (unless you're scoring at a very high or very low level). So if you feel like you're getting everything or almost everything right, then that means you're missing things - you're making mistakes and you're not even aware of them.

People who are really performing at the top limit of their abilities will know that they're missing more problems, because they'll be able to answer correctly everything they really do know and they'll be aware of the things that they don't know or the questions that are too tricky.

We know you're capable of scoring higher - your verbal score on the real test was 4 points higher the first time. So something else happened to bring you down - something to do with mental stamina, timing, nerves, forgetting things you knew before, maybe a mix of all...

How was the timing? Did it feel easier / better / faster than usual? I'm wondering whether you were rushing and that led to careless mistakes.

How about your mental stamina? Did you feel at any point like you didn't care as much as you usually do, and you were making faster decisions than normal? That's one sign of mental fatigue. (You can also do the opposite: become "paralyzed" and find it harder to make decisions and move on.)

I'm most familiar with North American schools and will answer from that point of view. If you are planning on applying in other countries, then I may not have the best info and you might want to talk to an admissions consultant.

Most schools don't care if you take the test up to 3 times. Some schools care after that. Most schools take the highest test score and don't care about other lower scores, but each school is allowed to decide that for itself.

In terms of deciding whether to take it again, you should take to someone who works on the admissions side of things. In terms of how to study to take it again, we really want to try to figure out what happened this last time around to cause your verbal score to drop.

Another thing to think about: a lot of people who are really good at math try to approach verbal in a more "math-like" way, and try to "memorize" what to do. That doesn't work so well on verbal - you need to be able to think your way through new problems. It is possible to take more of a "memorization" approach to the practice material and learn to do well on the same material over and over, but not really learn how to think your way through new problems. (And, of course, the real test will consist of entirely new problems, every time!)

Could you go back to harder OG and GMATPrep problems and explain to a fellow student exactly why each wrong answer is tempting to pick and why it's wrong? Can you explain why it would be tempting to eliminate the right answer and why it's actually right? Can you discuss the traps that are built into the structure of the problem? Etc.

[sureshreddy003]

Hi Stacey,

I never thought that I was getting everything right, but felt that I was going good as I answered questions confidently which I know and other questions I guessed or assumed that this may be the answer.

Something wrong during the exam, I am not sure as I was prepared for everything. Ate and drank during breaks, had set a timing hurdle for some no. of questions and was on track. In between I felt that some questions were pretty tough and I could not understand the language and I had to just guess them.

I feel that bad luck is following me as when everything was going well, just before 2 days of my exam(i.e Wednesday) I came to know that there was a production issue and I had to work for that, as earlier I was the one who tested that work. As a result, my leave was cancelled for Thursday and on request I got leave on my exam day i.e Friday. I had to work and think a lot these two days, though I came home early on Thursday. Though I did not think anything before the exam and during the exam, I am not sure if this had any part on my exam. I should feel unlucky as the issue came just before my exam.( I did not want to show this as a reason, so I did not post it earlier)

I did not go faster during verbal as I had set timing breaks, but I am not sure if I made silly mistakes(as it is verbal). I was aiming for only top 20 b-schools in US and I wanted to know what impact it would have if I go for 3rd attempt.

May be in my 1st attempt, I memorized things for verbal but I never did this in my 2nd attempt. I analysed answers and improved myself in verbal. If I had followed memorization process, then I am sure I would have even failed in MGMAT tests and would not have scored 30+ scores. Either original test was tough or I became familiar with MGMAT language.

Yes, I did not receive even 1q from OG and all those questions were new. I feel I did pretty well in SC, may be would have got 5 wrong at max and also in RC. But I am still not sure, what happened and why such a low score populated.

I am still confused whether to go for 3rd attempt or not? or should I go for any coaching classes, but after I join, if they teach basics, then obviously I would not be interested in class. I am looking for an Institute which gives good advanced and basic classes. I am not decided though on this. Also, I have read all the MGMAT materials many times and did all the questions from OG(may be twice or thrice). Not sure how to prepare for the next time.

Just tell me that top 20 b-schools would not throw away my application, as it was my 3rd attempt. The funniest part of my exam was I scored 6 in AWA and last time I scored 5.5. huh what should I do with these scores now, as the next time I attempt, there would be a new IR section. Does schools consider my earlier AWA score?

Please advice.

Thanks,
Suresh

[StaceyKoprince]

I felt that some questions were pretty tough and I could not understand the language

If this was happening a lot, it was likely a sign of mental fatigue - we read something and we feel like, "What? I don't understand" and we have to read it again (and maybe again). It's possible that you were stressed out already knowing it was your second attempt and then the work emergency added to that stress and mental fatigue, yes.

Most schools don't care if students take the test up to 3 times - so you can take it 3 times without them wondering or discounting the scores.

In terms of taking a class or working with someone, yes, you might find it advantageous to work with someone. You don't need help on quant and your verbal needs are likely very specific, so you might want to look into tutoring. That's a lot more expensive than taking a class, but you'd get very targeted help on exactly what you need - and a tutor would help you try to figure out what's going on and why you're falling short on test day. You would likely pay $1k to $1.5k for a full class, so you might get anywhere from 5 to 15 hours of private tutoring for that same amount, depending on the tutor's rate.

I'm generally reluctant to suggest tutoring on the forums because it's so expensive and because I have an obvious conflict of interest (since I work for a company that sells tutoring services). But I'm not sure that I can figure out what went wrong in your case - it seems to me that you need someone to sit down with you, watch you work, ask you questions about specific problems, etc, in order to diagnose what's going on.

[sureshreddy003]

Hi Stacey,

How are You! Hope you are having a great time with students and questions.

After thinking a lot and beating my head, I have joined a coaching institute, which is a bit popular in my area. I felt, OK I attempted GMAT 2 times with self-preparation(of course 2nd time I had a pretty good understanding and scored at 680 in practice), now this is the 3rd time and most probably my last attempt, so I decided let's try with a bit of coaching. I knew that I am good at basics, logical thinking, but I wanted to improve in areas in which I am weak or I would get stuck during the exam such as Geometry, Probability, CR, RC, Coordinate Geometry and also I would have instructor to discuss my mistakes.

Its been 1 week and I am feeling pretty good during classes. After I attended verbal class(teaching CR) and answering questions in the class, instructor spoke with me personally and told me " Suresh, your logical thinking is very good but you are getting confused between two options and selecting the wrong one". So let us work on it and you would become good after practice. When he asked which books you followed earlier, I told the instructor that I followed MGMAT books and used to score 680. He said Oh nice they are pretty good books, keep following them specially Sentence Correction.

Also, I have decided to follow Ron's videos as presently I have time to dig into the practice tests. Also, I hope I told you that I scored 6 in AWA(91% le), so this shows that I am not worst at verbal to get a score of 19, I should have scored more. This time I am concentrating on all the sections including maths as even my maths score was reduced by 1 point. I have to score 49/50 in maths.

My preparation would be the same as I did last time during evenings and in the morning I would attend classes, which would have practice handouts on each day. So I would have a practice of questions however every day. Presently the standard of coaching is at 600 level, but once I score 600+ in their practice tests I would be eligible to enroll into advanced level coaching. So I am recollecting all my basics for now and I would be taking a practice test in the next 2 weeks(this time a diff test other than MGMAT) and would assess where I stand.

Any thoughts or inputs please advice :)


Thanks,
Suresh

[StaceyKoprince]

I'm glad that you like the course and teacher that you selected. Ask lots of questions!

Also, volunteer to answer when the teacher asks a question - and don't just volunteer when you know you already know the answer. Volunteer when you think you know but you're not 100% sure. That lets you test your understanding and also allows you to explain your thinking. If you're right, great. If you're wrong, the teacher will hear how you went wrong and correct you, which is even better - you're in class to learn, right? :)

I agree that the score of 6 on the AWA shows us that you have a strong command of the language in general, so you can definitely do much better than the verbal score that you got last time.

What did you think about my comment last time that you might have been suffering from mental fatigue? I can't remember whether I already linked to this article before:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... you-crazy/
Do you think that might have been a factor?