How to study 2nd time around?

[AceTheGM@]

Hi. I took the Complete Course in person and did all of the homework every week. I took an official GMAT in late December 2013 and scored a 650. My goal is 700.

I haven't studied a ton since I took the actual exam, but am ready to buckle down and study again. I have looked at GMAT materials for about 2 hours every other week since then, so it's not *completely* foreign. However, I feel completely lost about what next steps to take. I really feel like MGMAT has given me no help on this one. My PEA told me which topics to study, but where do I study? There's so much possible material out there, so where do I begin? (FYI, I purchased the additional question bank from GMAT Prep.)

I really just need some structure at this point. How do I know what test date to register for? I really want to make sure I get a 700 this time. Unfortunately, though, I only have one unused GMAT PREP practice test left (I purchased the additional 2 and took 1). What is the next most realistic source of practice tests? I don't think MGMAT's tests are realistic on Quant because the questions are too hard-- if I saw some questions that time-consuming on the actual exam, I'd skip them, but on an MGMAT test, I know I have to tackle them.

[StaceyKoprince]

If you tell me which topics you were told to study, then I can point you towards some specific resources. You will also need to go back to your books, of course.

More important, you want to make sure you know HOW to study, right? Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmat/

Let me know if you have any questions about that.

if I saw some questions that time-consuming on the actual exam, I'd skip them, but on an MGMAT test, I know I have to tackle them.

No you don't. You should skip them on our test, too. You should do exactly what you'd do on the real test - practice that exact behavior. :)

You don't need to take a test right now - you still have the data from when you finished your studies and from your PEA, so you'll get started on that stuff. After a few weeks, take a practice test. I would recommend taking one of ours, not GMATPrep - you'll want the data that the score report can give you in terms of your strengths and weaknesses. Save that last "clean" GMATPrep for later.

You did the two free tests already? It's been nearly 3 months (at the least) since you took them. Leave them be, don't study those questions or even look at them. In another month or so, you can reset the free tests and try them again - you'll have forgotten a bunch of the questions, if not most of them.

I'd alternate between doing ours and theirs - ours so that you can get the in-depth data, theirs so that you have the best gauge of your current scoring level. (Note: you HAVE to do essay and IR if you want to make sure that you're getting as true a gauge as possible.)

Let me know what you were told to study and we'll get into strategies / details!

[AceTheGM@]

Thanks, Stacey! This has been really helpful over the past month. I now have some follow-up questions:

1.) a.) I have basically exhausted OG questions, although I still have the add-on question set from GMAT prep. If I'm trying to raise my score from 650 (official on 12/28/13- Q41, V38) to 700, what's the best source for timed sets of ~10 random questions at the correct difficulty? b.) What's the best way to practice questions of a very specific type? I've been using the list in OG Archer as guidance.

2.) What is the best source of practice tests? I find that MGMAT has the best diagnostic features but can be unrealistically difficult. I tried resetting GMAT Prep #1 but remember too many answers. I have also taken GMAT Prep #2 and #3. I have GMAT Prep #4 untouched but am hoping to save that for closer to test day (goal is June 14, but I may reschedule). Should I try 800Score? I'm registered for June 14 - should I plan to use GMAT Prep #4 on ~June 1 and decid if I need to reschedule based on that?

3.) I've tried making an error log, but am having trouble seeing the "big picture" in my mistakes. I've read your article about the 2nd level of understanding a question but am having trouble applying broader error themes to future questions.

For example, I'll miss a handful of Quant questions. Upon reviewing a quant question, I realize that, say, factoring was the key, so I'll practice that question type- but ultimately, I don't make huge process, which I mostly chalk up to saying, "oh, that one had a unique trick" even if I do think to apply factoring. I realize this may be hard to address, but any advice/tips you have would be great to hear. [Example to help you understand - the answer itself is posted elsewhere-- if you search the question "A certain city with a population of 132,000" is a good example. I was off to the right start by dividing by 11 - took 90% of that figure, but forgot to distribute the people reduced from that town's population into the population of other towns. A mistake like that is somewhat typical for me. How do I apply the theme of that error to future questions?]

4.) What's a healthy amount to "study hard" for a June 14 test date? I got a 650 on 12/28 and haven't studied a ton since, although I have looked at the material about once a week. I'm aiming for a 700. I think I over-studied and over psyched myself out during the first go-round before 12/28, so a goal number of hours to study each week for the next 6 weeks would probably help me a lot.

Any thoughts you might have would be great to hear. Thanks so much! This forum is really helpful for me - I always use the answers even if I don't post a reply.

[StaceyKoprince]

1) You may be trying to do too many questions. OG13 plus the two supplements = about 1,500 questions. If you've gone through them all but your score is still at 650, then you're not learning all of the things that you need to learn when you study. If that's the case, then plowing through more new questions isn't going to change much.

On average, I spend about 3 to 5 times as long analyzing a problem as it took to do the problem in the first place. If I spent 2 minutes to do it, I'm looking at 5 to 10 minutes to analyze - sometimes longer. And I'm pretty efficient; most students take longer. :)

So I'm going to guess that there's probably more that you could be doing there. When you finish studying a problem, do you know not just how to do that problem but how to recognize when a different problem tests similar things? Can you recognize when parts of problems test the same things and can be solved using the same processes, even when the problems don't look all that much the same on the surface?

Have you thought about ways in which they could twist the problem or change the details so that you'd have to do something sort of similar but ultimately different? How are you going to spot the twist and know how to handle it?

If you aren't doing all of that, then part of your time should be spent going back and figuring those things out for problems you've already done. When you're ready for new problems, you can use the GMATPrep question pack to make problem sets. Just make sure that you really are extracting full value from the problems you do!

Next, what are your timing issues?
(If your immediate reaction is that your timing is fine, check again. I run across about one person a year who truly doesn't have timing issues. Everyone else does, even though many think they don't...)

2. GMATPrep are the best, but you're right to save that one for about 1-2 weeks before the real thing. Yes, use that one to decide whether you're ready.

After that, our tests are the next closest indicator, as far as I can tell. (Our standard deviation from last MGMAT CAT to real CAT is about 50 points, compared to 30 points for the real test. No other company has published this data, leading me to believe that their numbers aren't better than ours. :)

If you think that ours are unrealistically difficult, then I'm going to guess that you struggle more with quant than verbal, that you do have timing issues on quant at a minimum, and that you struggle more with computation than with other pieces of the math.

If all of that is the case, then part of what you need to learn is to cut yourself off when the going gets tough. The real test may not give you as much annoying computation, but you will have stress that you don't have on practice tests (because you know it will count now) and you will feel more pressure to hang on longer to problems you really shouldn't be doing. We can't fool you into thinking that a practice test really counts, but we can still construct things to put you under the same kind of stress - and see whether you can still make good decisions or whether the process starts to break down. So don't dismiss our tests - after GMATPrep, they really are the best.

I haven't done tests from other companies (I manage the content of our own tests, so I literally can't look at other company tests for competition / IP reasons), but I've heard fellow teachers say good things about 800Score tests. So those are the next best ones.

3. I just got to your point 3. Yes, so this is part of why you're through with the questions (point 1) and looking for more. You actually do need to buckle down and try to learn this stuff rather than going for more new questions.

I've written an article (a long time ago now) about that voting districts problem; see here:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2009/11/ ... s-problems

And see what I did at the end? You can use this problem (and the other one in the same article) to learn how to tackle max / min problems in general.

Next, you made a mistake along the way. Figure out what the mistake was and what you could do differently in future to minimize the chances of repeating that mistake.

eg: before you start solving, figure out the general steps you need to take and jot down short notes for each step, one note per line on your scrap paper. Then follow your steps.

In general, follow the process discussed in this article:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ms-part-1/

Have a plan before you start solving; if you can't come up with the plan, it's time to bail. Start looking for others' solutions to and discussions of problems to help give you ideas of the kind of things you could be doing or thinking about. Also, come back here and tell me what your take-aways for max/min problems in general based on that problem.

When was your last practice test? It's possible that your level is still around 650, but it's also possible that it has dropped in the 4-5 months that you weren't studying much. If your level has dropped, you need to figure out what specifically has gotten rusty so that you can get it back up to speed. A practice test would tell you those things.

In general, anyone looking to lift a score significantly (and I consider 50+ points significant) should be planning to study 10 to 20* hours a week. I can't tell you that you need to do this for 6 weeks because I don't know how much time you'll need to get to your goal. It may be 4 weeks or 6 or 10 or longer - it can vary greatly from person to person. You'll just have to see how it goes as you do it.

*The more you're studying in an effective way, the more you can cut this to 10-12 hours a week. Don't just toss hours at the problem. You're asking the right kinds of questions here about how to study - just keep that up and keep pushing towards how to study effectively.

Plan as though it's an exercise program. You're going to study daily, with one day off a week. (I like to make Friday my day off, my reward for studying all week long. If I slip up, though, I have to stay in on Friday and study.) Your study can be spread across a day (half an hour at breakfast or lunch if you're more of a morning person, flash cards at 10-minute intervals throughout the day, an hour when you get home from work). On days you don't work, try to sit down for a solid 1-2 hours once or twice a day (with a substantial break in between if you do 2 study sessions in a day). Turn off your phone, close your browsers, and focus on studying!

[AceTheGM@]

Thanks, Stacey! This is very helpful. FYI I took MGMAT #5 on Sat 5/17 and scored a 640 (Q38, V38). My goal for my 6/14 test date is 700, although I'm willing to push out the test date if necessary. I'm planning to take another practice test on 5/31 to determine whether or not that date should change- does that sound right to you, or should I wait another week for that test?

1.) I would agree that I have timing issues on Quant, but I don't know what they are! Based on Saturday's test, here's my cumulative time after several questions to give you a snapshot of my timing:
#10- 21:28
#20- 43:27 - seems like I'm a bit slow but mostly fine though ehre
#22- Shocked to see I spent 4:27 on this
#26- 58:41
#27- looked super confusing, guessed blindly, spent 0:13 on it
#30- 64:45
#35: 69:45
Finished and spent 3 minutes on last question (ultimately incorrect).
Was my catch-up strategy okay? How do I avoid the blind pitfall of unknowlingly spending 4:27 on a question? I've gotten a good sense of what ~90 seconds feels like, but I occasionally get too into a question and lose track of time.

I think my Verbal pacing is fine and that I just really need to learn what I'm doing wrong in CR. Do you agree? Here are my stats from just my most recent test:
Sentence Correction: 93% correct (avg time correct: 1:43 / incorrect: 1:43)
Reading Comp: 83% correct (avg time correct: 1:52 / incorrect: 1:00, so maybe slow down a bit if I'm answering quickly)
Critical Reasoning: 21% correct (avg time correct: 2:06 / incorrect: 1:55)

2. and 3.) Sounds good. Very helpful info about the 'big picture' errors- I am going to re-read those articles and go through my most recent mistakes with those tips in mind.

4.) New question: based on the breakout of % correct questions below for Quant, how do you suggest I spend my time studying given that I only have a month til test day? Do I work hard on Word Problems given the clear skill deficiency there, or do I cut my losses and focus on all of the other areas? For what it's worth, the % correct in each sub-category was typically very similar to the question type's average % correct (e.g. my subcategory % correct scores do not vary wildly within a section).
Algebra: 50%
Geometry: 67%
Number Properties: 50%
Word Problems: 20%
FDP: 27%

My plan is to focus on Critical Reasoning and whatever Quant you suggest based on the above. I will occasionally look at SC and RC but feel pretty comfortable in those areas.

Thank you again! This thread has been hugely helpful to me.

[StaceyKoprince]

That date sounds right to me - about 2 weeks out, you should be in range of your goal. If not, you're probably only going to panic yourself if you keep trying to push to get there within 2 weeks. :)

Your quant timing is okay for about the first half of the section and then you start getting in trouble - that's quite common.

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -to-do-it/

Also, have a mental image of someone you've worked with who is that person who always suggests doing something that's a complete waste of time 5 hours before the slide deck, budget report, whatever is due to your boss or client. You know who I'm talking about, right? We've all worked with that person. :)

Expect that, when you're neck-deep in work leading up to a tight deadline (read: 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through a section), this person is going to approach you and say, "Hey, you know, we should really re-run all of the numbers from XYZ, just to make sure we didn't make a mistake." And you're thinking, "No, no we shouldn't. We have 15 more important things to do and that's not even a main part of the deliverable. Go away."

Do you recognize the analogy? That's the 4:27 question. You need to tell it to go away; it's just wasting your time. :)

The beauty of this is that you are NOT thinking "Oh, I'm giving up. Oh, I should know how to do this" and making yourself feel bad. What you're thinking is, "Seriously? Stop wasting my time, stupid test. Go away."

For verbal, your SC is a little slower than average but RC is faster, so that's balancing out. You just need to make sure that you don't go SO fast on RC that you cost yourself points due to careless mistakes.

Since there's such a huge difference between SC/RC performance and CR, if you ever have the slightest timing issue, just bail within 15 seconds of starting the next CR problem. Save all that time.

For CR, here's a resource that may help:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... reasoning/

Don't expect to turn this one into as much of a strength, but you'd like to get this one up to maybe 50% correct and you'll be good to go.

For quant, there are certain common categories within WP and FDP that you can't afford to just blow off completely. They are:
WP: Translations, Statistics (don't worry about standard deviation or the advanced stuff - but do know the basics for average and median)
FDP: percents, fractions

Both of those have translation in common; take a look at these:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... into-Math/
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... them-real/

The first one mostly teaches what the book teaches. The second teaches another strategy to help you get through a lot of story problems. Do them in that order - you need to get the math basics down in order for the second strategy to work.

[AceTheGM@]

Thanks. This is really helpful :) Couple follow-up Qs:

1.) I'm registered for June 14. I've been studying my weak areas a lot, but am thinking a reschedule seems pretty probable but not definite. I'm taking a practice test next Sat, 5/31, to determine if I'm "in the range" of my goal of 700. I want to vary the source of my exams, so I do not want to use MGMAT. Should I use 800Score, or should I use GMAT PREP #4, which is my last clean official practice test? I tried resetting GMAT PREP #1 many months after I originally took it, and I went through the results so many times that I was too familiar with repeat questions and ended up with an inflated score, so resetting is not an option. Also, what is considered "in the range" of 700? e.g. what do you advise should be my threshold for rescheduling, and if I reschedule, how do I know how much more time I'll need? I realize that my score can vary, but I really don't want to score below 680 on test day, and that's worst case scenario. As a refresher, I got a 640 on MGMAT CAT #5 on 5/17 and have really honed in on my problem topic areas since then.

2.) I haven't necessarily gone through the whole OG! I am just out of the questions in my weak spots and have done those problems so many times and know the solutions so well that I am not sure how I'd react to a new question type. Specifically, I am out of Fractions (FDP in general, but especially Fractions) and Critical Reasoning (especially Find the Assumption) questions. I've gone through the OG13 and supplement books. The questions MGMAT classifies as "Easier" are quite easy for me, and I know the Moderate/Harder questions so well that I need to find a new source for these question types. Where can I find more of these specific question type?

[StaceyKoprince]

If you have taken 800Score before and feel comfortable that prior test results were relatively reflective of your current scoring level, then use those. Otherwise, use GMATPrep.

If you want a 680 absolute bare minimum, then I'd be aiming to score 700+ on the practice test. Otherwise, reschedule. (No guarantees of course that you will hit 680+ with a 700+ practice test score...)

How much time = how far below your goal are you. If you score mid-600s again, or if you score high-600s but have no idea what else you need to do to get better, give yourself at least a month. If you score, say, 680 AND feel that you have a really solid idea of what you need to do to push the score 20-30 more points, then give yourself about 2-3 weeks.

Analyze the test data and the individual questions. Do you know why you got certain things wrong? Do you know where you should have made different decisions about when to keep going vs. when to let go? Do you have any quicker-fix issues, such as too many careless errors or some mild to moderate (but not severe) timing problems?

If you can point to specific places and know what you should have done differently (and your score is pretty close to your goal), then you're close. If not, you need more than a couple of weeks.

For more questions, get the GMATPrep Problem Pack - it has about 200 each quant and verbal. You won't be able to do them by topic, but that's okay - I don't want you to at this point. I want you to move more towards doing mixed, random sets of questions and using those both to hone weaker areas AND to review everything. When you hit an FDP, great, try to figure it out. But don't do a bunch of FDPs knowing before you start that that's what you've got - half the battle is figuring out what you've got in the first place.

Also, when you review these problems - you are digging into the traps, the disguises, the bits that are giving you trouble, yes? Doing more new ones won't help if you just keep making the same kinds of mistakes...

[AceTheGM@]

I ended up rescheduling my 6/14 test date to 7/28. My goal is still 700. The good news is my Verbal subscore, based on the past 7 tests, is almost always 39 or 40. I'm basically only going to review Verbal occasionally so I don't forget anything - does that make sense at this point? I'm open to studying Verbal more, but worry that the questions get so hard that each incremental hour of studying won't get me the same benefits as studying Quant will.

The problem seems to be with Quant. Here are my most recent 7 Quant subscores:
11/30: 44 (63rd) - GMAT Prep #1
12/12: 44 (63rd) - MGMAT #4
12/15: 41 (54th) - GMAT Prep #2
12/21: 46 (71st)- GMAT Prep #3
12/28: 41 (41)- Official
**Only studied 2-4 hrs/week until May 1. On May 1, I began studying 15 hours/wk**
5/17: 38 (44th) - MGMAT #5
6/3: 36 (40th)- GMAT Prep #4
6/22: 38 (53rd)- 800Score #1

I consider my Quant drop to be significant, and not just due to natural variation in scores. I just worked through the entire Foundations of Math workbook over the past 10 days, and as I mentioned, I've studied 15 hours/week since May 1, so I would think any "rust" has worn off by now.

How do I possibly study from here? I've paid for the Complete Course, where I did all the homework each week, and a tutor-- so now I'm low on cash and not seeing results, and I'm obviously feeling pretty disappointed and hopeless. Is 7/28 far enough away? How can I possibly ever get my Quant score to a 46? It seemed within reach in December, but now I just don't think it's possible.

I went through my GMAT Prep #4 results with an MGMAT tutor who said that my timing was fine but that careless mistakes were the root cause of my errors, which is why I worked through FOM.

Here are the errors from today's 800Score test based on their question type categorization. Interestingly, I spent ~3 mins/Q on incorrect questions-- but that said, I also spent ~3 mins on a handful of questions that I got correct (and was able to get a handful correct in about a minute as well, so I stayed on track with pacing benchmarks every 10 mins). Here are the errors from the 800Score test:
1.) Geometry- had no clue on this Triangles question
6.) Also Geometry
9.) Area within a coordinate plane, so maybe this is geometry, too?
18.) Quadratic Equations
19.) Rates (car chase around a circle- is this geometry?)
22.) Integer Properties (number prop?)
24.) Absolute Value (number prop?)
25.) Polygons and Triangles
26.) Coordinate geometry
30.) Integer Properties (number prop?)
32.) Quadratic Equations
33.) Power of Numbers (is this number prop?)
34.) Percents
36.) Digits
Based on this it seems like I should study Geometry, Coordinate Planes, and Number Properties. Would you agree?

Really any game plan you have at this point would be much appreciated, as I have been studying for this test for 9+ months, have put in $2,500, and feel totally disillusioned.

[StaceyKoprince]

When you were doing the 3m Qs that you got wrong, did they feel any different than the 3m Qs that you got right?

Did you know, for example, that you got those ones right? Did you feel like you were working towards something and knew what you were doing?

And what about the ones that you got wrong? Were you totally surprised that you missed them? Or did you know along the way that things were shaky?

The key here, basically, is that it's totally okay to go up to 2.5m (because you will also have faster problems), and it's even okay to have 2-3 problems closer to 3m (but not far over), as long as you are making good choices about when to spend that extra time. If you know you know how to do it, but the problem is long or has a few extra steps than normal, then fine.**

But those ones where you're really thinking: Argh, I studied this! I'm sure I'll figure it out if I just spend a little more time...

No. Those ones you let go. You're using up valuable time AND mental energy that you now cannot use elsewhere on the test.

** Note that the test discounts the "outlier" questions - questions that are at the highest end or lowest end of the range of questions you're offered. So even if you see a question that you KNOW you can do in 4 minutes, it's not worth it. The question likely won't count as heavily (it's probably at the high end of your mix) and you're pretty much guaranteeing yourself a careless mistake or two elsewhere on lower-level problems.

Make too many mistakes on lower-level problems and your whole score goes down the drain.

For content areas, first, which ones of those would you consider careless mistakes (ie, you did know how to do them but messed up somehow)?

The real test typically has about 3-4 geometry questions, so that's not as large a concern. Also, how difficult were those problems? (I'm not sure whether 800Score shows you difficulty levels.) Do make sure you know the basics (again, so that you don't get lower-level questions wrong) but don't worry about really hard ones.

I'd focus more on Algebra (2 quad eqns, absolute value, power of numbers = exponents, and these are more common topics).

If the test did give you difficulty levels, tell me which of these were lowest in diff level. Also, tell me which ones were fast (< 1m15s) or slow (>2m30s).

It also seems that you may have been low on either time or mental stamina, as you had an increasing incidence of errors toward the end of the test, including 4 of the last 6 wrong.

This will result in a score drop at the end of the test, and the GMAT is a "where you end is what you get" test. So your score was higher earlier in the section but it dropped at the end of the test.

Take a look back and see if you can tell what was going on there. (If you have more careless mistakes towards the end, that's a definite mental fatigue sign.)

Also, compare your GMATPrep #4 and #3. What are the potential causes of the huge score difference there? You won't remember much about #3 (eg, which wrong ones were careless mistakes) but try to remember how the timing went, see whether you had clusters of errors in one vs. the other, and so on. Also, tell me your real name - I want to look at something in your last MGMAT CAT. (If you don't want to post it on the forums, send an email to gmat@manhattanprep.com and ask them to forward it to me - tell them I asked you to email me.)