Help. Advice?

[jw709]

Just finished my first gmat. 530. :-(
was hoping for 600+
29 q 34 v
Have done 4/6 Mgmats 510 (early)/620/630/630
GMAT Prep Last week 650/650
PR online test 650
Kaplan 600
Usually end up around 42 V and 36-41 math
Even two days ago I did the mgmat Cat 6 (just Q) and scored 44.
What the hell happened?
I wasnt rushed on Q had 1:30 left, I did notice time was low on q39 of v, so guessed the last two q's- which were seemingly simple sentence correction. Essays went quick, about 18 -20 mins each.
Do I need a tutor? Just a freak occurrence?
Even the Q apart from the first 2 questions didnt seem that bad. Lots of venn diagram/tables qs (which I like) but a lot of DS which can be my weak point....
argggg..

Thx
Jason

[StaceyKoprince]

Sorry you had a rough time with the test. Read this article, do the analysis described, then come back here to tell us what you discover. (Note: if you think that certain possible causes in the article don't apply to your case, say so - just so that I know you did actually consider those possible issues.)

http://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/26 ... went-wrong

Next, you can also analyze your most recent MGMAT practice exam using the below article and again come back and tell us what you discover:

http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/e ... -part1.cfm

(Note: do not simply post the data. Analyze the data. Tell us what you think it means and what you think you should do about it. Then we'll tell you whether we think you're right in your analysis, and we can discuss the best steps to take.)

Once we've figured out what was going on, we can then figure out what to do about it!

[jw709]

Hi Stacey, thanks for the reply and the articles.
I have read these, and the only thing I can think of are time issues. (apart from not mastering the material of course)
I actually gave myself 80 mins on the last MGMAT (#5). While I finished with 1:40 left, that means I gave myself 3+ bonus minutes.
On a few of my tests I did that. (MGMATS). However on both GMAT preps and the PR test I followed the regular timing and just finished each section with around 10-20 secs left, or guessed the very last q.
I rarely did the essays, but I did on my last MGMAT sort of- I used the MBA write website to write both essays (scored 4.5/5), got a cup of coffee and then started the mgmat skipping the essays (630). I took about 10 mins between (+2 more than the test), not thinking it was a big deal. (Maybe it is!)

During test day, I thought I wrote very good essays. (I got 6.0 on the score report I received) one took about 20 mins, the other a little bit more- but I wonder did I expend too much energy there? I was very slow on first two Q and V problems. I actually took almost 5 minutes on the first q problem -a chart overlap type q which I was sure I could do- I ended up guessing anyways, and got another similar which was easier. What really got me was it was almost back to back ds and ps q's. I think I had 18 ds/19ps. I couldn't believe I had so many, especially as it seems they are my weak point. My verbal score also took a hit, down about 3 or 4 point, perhaps as I guessed the last 3 questions. I wasted a lot of time on a RC passage and still guessed. I honestly would have bet 100.00 that I had scored 600+ though, and was shocked to see 530. I have a rewrite in 5 weeks. I studied in excess of 220hrs since Dec 1 on this- maybe a little too much...
I am also wondering since I did all my practice tests afternoon or evening and started my real test at 0845 if this was a factor?
I have signed on for Manhattan private tutoring online (I am on far east coast of canada so not near a major centre). I am hoping 4-8 hrs of tutoring can at least get me going on the weak areas. I am not looking for a 750, but a 6xx would be good.
I have paid the deposit on the tutor, just waiting for someone to contact me to get going!

cheers
Jason

[StaceyKoprince]

I don't think it's a big deal that you took a 10-min break instead of 8. I'm much more concerned about giving yourself an extra 5 minutes on that test. You gave yourself a HUGE luxury that isn't allowed on the real test.

Part of the pain for everyone on this test is the fact that we can't answer everything in the allotted time. It doesn't matter how good you get - they'll just give you harder stuff, right? So part of your task is to figure out when the test has found your limit (and it will, unless you score an 800!), and LET THOSE GO. And you didn't do that on the real test - you talk about taking too much time on some questions right from the beginning. There is NEVER a single question worth spending more than 3m on (and that's if it's an expected 2m question - there's never an SC worth spending more than 2m on, for example).

Think of this as a tennis match, not a test. You're going to win some points and the other guy is going to win some points; you're not going to win them all, right? Your goal is to put yourself into position to win the LAST point. Translated, that means you have to put yourself in position to answer the last question - you have to have time to address it. Otherwise, you've lost the last point, and by extension the match. When the other guy hits a winner, don't go running after it so fast that you hit the fence and injure yourself, thereby hurting your chances on the later points. (Translation: don't go way over when the problem is too hard.)

(Note: you don't literally have to "win" the last point on the GMAT - the last question isn't any more important than the others in that sense - but you have to give yourself a "clean shot" at any question, and you can only do that by acnowledging when the computer has already won the shot. :)

Is DS really your weak point? Or are you slower on PS, so you have to be faster on DS to make up for it, and then your DS performance suffers? I see that a LOT with my students. Check the data from your recent tests and see.

Time of day can be a factor, yes - it depends on the person. For me, an 8:45a test would definitely slow me down; I'm not a morning person. :) In particular, you mention feeling like you got a slow start in both sections, and you never took your tests at that time of day... so, yes, either take the test later in the day next time or take your practice tests in the morning.

Because you did so well on the essays, one thing you can try for next time is just writing a bit less and taking a bit less time so that you save more energy for the main event. Honestly, if you can write well enough to get a 6.0, then you can write a decent amount less and still likely get a 5.5 or 6.0. (I never write more than 4 paragraphs - two examples!)

I still recommend that you do the analysis in the second article I linked to last time - share your analysis with your tutor (and here if you would like). You may also want to send your tutor the link to my article - this is how I review the tests, but every teacher has somewhat different methods.

Here are some other articles that might help:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2009/12/ ... management
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/a ... roblem.cfm

p.s. Where in Canada are you? I'm in Montreal. :)

[jw709]

Hi, thanks for the info. It is immensely helpful. I'm in St. John's NL. Tutor lined up for this weekend. Looking fwd to that.
I am really thinking (now that I am outside it), that I ran long, and may have carelessly ran the last few Q problems to end up with extra time, and certainly on V since I was short. I am guessing the last 3 V questions wrong could really knock down the v score?
It just occurred to me that on maybe 3 PS questions, the second I worked out the answer, if I SAW it in the choices, I clicked and went on. That might have been a rush tactic, especially since I was 8 mins in at the end of q2, but still finished with almost 2 mins left. (I guess that means I had 8 wasted minutes- 6 extra on the first 2, and a spare 1:49)- I think I wished I had used those 8 mins better now!!! I think I will do as you suggest and go a little easier on the essays, they didn't take long, and were pretty simple arguments, but required energy.
What I really like about the mgmat tests are the detailed stats. Looking at them now. I'll also go over it in depth with the tutor over the weekend. Is it ok to post that amount of data here from the assessment or should it be reduced? The assessment tool is incredibly useful. I wish Gmat prep had even 10% of the stats (even the difficulty and times might be enough).

[StaceyKoprince]

You can post hte data here, yes, but if you don't post your own analysis of the data - what you think it means and what you think you should do about it - then I'm not going to tell you what I think until after you tell me what you think. :) The ability to self-assess is hugely important when trying to get better.

If you do take GMATPrep at some point, you can give yourself the timing data - simply have a computer program, smart phone, or stopwatch handy and time yourself per question. I highly recommend this. That's still not anywhere near as good as the data we have, true, but it's something - and GMATPrep is the most like the real thing, so it's still valuable to take it.

The amount that your score is hurt when you have multiple questions wrong in a row depends upon several things - the number wrong in a row, the level of the questions, whether any were experimental, and what scoring level you were at when the downward slide started. Generally, the higher you are, the less they expect you to get 3 wrong in a row, the worse it is when you do.

The one piece of absolutely official data (because it came directly from GMAC) that I can give is this: If someone is scoring at the 70th percentile on the quant section, and that person runs out of time with 5 questions to go, then that person's quant score will be 55th percentile (3 percentile points per question).

We've also heard rough estimates that if that same student answered the last 5 questions randomly with the expected random-guess distribution (1 right, 4 wrong), then the penalty would be roughly 2 to 2.5 percentile points per question.

My guess is that, at your scoring level, it might not be the case that the 3 in a row wrong at the end of the verbal by themselves totally killed your score, but I don't think the hurt was limited to 3 in a row wrong at the end. You were presumably speeding up on other questions as well, earlier in the section, in an attempt to get back on track - which likely means you made careless errors, which likely means that, going into the final 3, your score was already lower than you were capable of scoring. And, then, the final 3 just brought it down even more.

So, yes, this timing thing needs some work. :)

[jw709]

I just reset my Cat tests and completed test 1a.
Unlike most other tests, I did this at 0930, completed the two essays, took about 5 mins on each break and wore headphones to reduce distraction. I scored 700. 43Q and 41V. I had about 1:30 seconds left on Q and a bit more left on V. I really believe that may be due to the long RC passage having been a repeat-
I did have two repeat RC sections and a few SC (which I still got wrong 7-800 level.) For the RC, I picked what I thought were correct, and let myself use 2 minutes in case I had previous knowledge. In comparing to the same RC passage/Qs from a previous exam, I seemed to have picked the same exact answers, right or wrong. Consistent I guess.

I am both excited to get 700, given I gave myself no advantages like other tests. I am wary of the few RC and SC questions that repeat. The SC less so, as I know why they are right or wrong (parallel structures, active voice, improper idioms), but the repeat of RC may have skewed the score.
That being said, I am pretty sure 530 is not where I should have been on test day, and need to work my a$$ off to keep the scores above 600.

My initial analysis of my 5th CAT (630) leads me to believe I spent far too long on things I got wrong anyway. What I think happened on real test is I compounded that by rushing to make up the time, and got 300-500 Q questions wrong as well. My average diff level here on mgmat has been 550 level correct on PS and 570 correct on DS, with 680 wrong level and 670 wrong ps/ds. My times have been around 2 mins +- 10 s. The exception being 700 level qs using 3-4 mins on ds, and around 3 on ps.
I am starting to see where sacrifices may need to be made to ensure solid 300-500 level results. Algebra wasn't the big impediment I thought, only at higher levels. Same with DS.

[StaceyKoprince]

What I think happened on real test is I compounded that by rushing to make up the time, and got 300-500 Q questions wrong as well.

Very likely, yes. The stress of the real test compounds our bad habits - so if we would have gone a little too long on a particular question during practice, we'll go even longer on the real test. Similarly, if we would rush on a particular question during practice, we'll go even faster on the real test.

Given what you describe, it is possible that your verbal is a bit inflated by the RC, yes. It sounds like you mostly picked the same things, which minimizes the possible inflation, and it sounds like you tried not to move through more quickly than you normally would have - but if you picked up even another minute or so over the length of the entire RC, that's an advantage you wouldn't normally have. Even still, I agree - that wouldn't bring you all the way down to the 5xx range. Given the timing problems as well - yes, part of this is going to be to master the timing and master your nerves. :)

I spent far too long on things I got wrong anyway

If it helps any, you're not alone. You just need to retrain yourself. The harder the question gets, the less attached to it you want to be. The harder it is, the less it matters that you get it right. The easier it is, the more it matters.

Okay, so your analysis sounds reasonable. Get to work and let us know how it goes!

[jw709]

Thanks for the advice!
In addition to further math and verbal prep, I am doing the labs which are excellent. I have also started tutoring with Tony Calderone. Even after one session I have picked up a couple of things. I need to get timing under control, and reduce careless errors on easier questions.
Cheers

Jason

[StaceyKoprince]

Great! Good luck with everything - check in and let us know how it's going.

[jw709]

Hi Stacey, wrote yesterday. 620 (35Q,41V)
Was hoping to be around 650, but thats ok. Its over. :-)
Thanks for your advice and many articles. Thanks to Tony Caldarone too, he spent 6 sessions with me online and that helped immensely.
Cheers,

Jason

[StaceyKoprince]

+90 points! That's awesome! I know you were hoping for 650, but even at 620 you really improved your score a lot - nice work.

I'll make sure Tony sees your post, too!