GMAT - 690 to 650. Retake one more time?

[kkapani]

Hi All,

I gave my GMAT last year in Aug 2010 and landed up with a 690 (q48 v36) and a 5.5 on the AWA. I did mess up on the timing and had to guess around 3 questions in each of the sections. Just so that you all have an idea of how things were, I got 690 and 620 on my GMATPreps (these were the only 2 tests that I gave last time over).

I decided to again appear for the test and signed up for 3rd September. I bought the Manhattan tests, although I did only 2 of them (7 unattempted quant questions in the first test landing up with a 620 and then a 660 on the second one). GMATPrep 1 was 690 (again) and GMATPrep 2 (for which I appeared 2 days before the real test) was even worse with a 640. Final score on attempt number 2 - 650. A fall of 40 points.

I'm aiming for the Top 15 and specifically want to pursue Management Consulting post MBA (why I mention this is because I read somewhere that top consultancy firms want to know how much one scored on the GMAT and they tend to put some weightage to it. Then again, I'm not too sure about this).
Having said that, my first question to all here would be - is it worth it a third time? How would schools view a 40 point fall in the score and then a third attempt?

I do agree that my strategies were a bit flawed - for my second attempt I was trying to get a 50+ on the quant while trying to keep verbal on the same level. That definitely didn't work out and on the contrary turned against me. However, my scores in the practice exams have been all over the park - 620, 640, 660, 690 and I was unable to identify a particular area of weakness - although in my GMATPrep 2 I got quite a few DS and almost all SC questions wrong.

If you do think that I should consider another attempt, how should I tackle verbal? This would be of extreme importance as I would need to raise my score from a 32-36 range to a 40+ atleast. Considering I'd like to make it to R2 deadlines this year, is this rise feasible?

Regards,
Karan

[kkapani]

I only hope changing the subject line of this post can attract a few answers from the instructor's here! Stacey/Anyone?

[StaceyKoprince]

Oh, no! re-posting caused you to wait longer for a reply. :(

We respond in order of oldest-post first, but that date is based on the LAST post in the thread. I answered questions from September 4th last week... if your post had still been with that group, you would have gotten an answer then. Don't bump your post - only re-post if you have something else you want to add to your story!

Re: your admissions questions, go and post in the Ask An Admissions Consultant folder - they'll know better than me.

Re: whether to take the test again - most schools don't care if you take the test up to 3 times. If you take it a 3rd time and do see a score improvement above the 690, then the schools will view it positively. If you stay around 650, they may wonder why you couldn't improve either the 2nd or 3rd time that you took it. Or they may just ignore the lower scores and look at the 690. Depends on the school / particular person who's reviewing your application.

You mention that your scores were often all over the map and you also mention occasionaly timing problems, which tells me you do have a timing problem that needs to be corrected - "scores all over the map" is often an indication of a timing problem. If you were to decide to take the test again, you would definitely need to fix that - especially because it's very difficult to break 700 if you have any kind of significant timing problem.

You also mention that you're aiming for round 2 deadlines this year. How many schools? What are the actual deadlines? Talk to the admissions consultants about this too - you need to make sure you don't shortchange your applications because you're focused on the GMAT. There's a danger that you do each thing half-well and don't get where you want to get on either. And especially because you do already have a 690, which is a great score - if you turn in only halfway decent applications, you're not going to get in even if you have a 760.

So go talk to an admissions consultant or two and see what they say. Then, if you are advised to take the test again, come back here and we'll figure out a plan. You'll also want to analyze your most recent MGMAT test using the below article and tell us your analysis:

http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

(Note: don't just post all the data. Tell us what you think it means. Self-analysis is an important skill!)

[kkapani]

Stacey,

I'd like to appear for the GMAT once again and try to break the 720+ barrier. I understand that this could question my capabilities if I do land up with a score in the same range as before, but I'd like to take a shot at it anyway.

Here is my analysis for the MGMAT 2:

Manhattan GMAT 2 (Q44 V36 660) - 08/27/2011
GMAT (Q47 V32 650) - 09/03/2011


QUANTITATIVE ANALYSIS

Right = 20
Wrong = 13 (equal split between DS and PS)
Unattempted = 4 (invariably a timing issue)

There is a string of problems that I got wrong on the test - 3 problems(7-9), 2 problems(16-17) and 2 problems(28-29) during various intervals of the test (question numbers indicated in brackets).
Interestingly, I spent 10.5, 7, 3 mins respectively on these sets, thus averaging almost 3 mins a question and still getting them wrong. 1 minute extra per question for 7 problems means I could have accomodated the 4 unanswered ones.

My problem is that I try hard to get a question right on the exam (no matter what its difficullty), especially if it is on the quant section. I did, however, make a conscious effort to not do so on the main exam and hence I was able to finish the section *just* on time.

Level of questions:
-------------------

Althogh there was an equal split between DS and PS, I see that I got 11 questions wrong between the 700-800 bracket, while only 2 between the 600-700.

Another thing that I did notice here is (yes, once again) a timing issue. Out of the 6 (700 level) questions that I got wrong in PS my average time for a WRONG answer was approximately 3.5 mins while it was around 2.2 mins for a WRONG answer on the DS ones.

Topics where I faltered:
-----------------------

Word Translations - 6 wrong out of 9 (worst ones were overlapping sets, statistics, rate and work where I got ALL questions wrong)
Algebra - 3 wrong out of 8 (ALL question wrong in exponential equations, formulas)
Geometry - 2 wrong out of 4 (triangles and diagonals, coordinate plane)
Number properties - 3 wrong out of 8 (ALL questions wrong in the sections - positives and negatives, odds and evens, consecutive integers)
FDPs - 0 wrong out of 5


Plan Ahead:
----------

Priority 1 - Get my timing right! Stacey, I'll need your guidance here.

Priority 2 - Understand concepts related to venn diagrams, overlapping sets, statistics (mean, median, mode), rate and work. I am also horribly weak on speed, time and distance problems! I need better methods here (and no, the table method doesn't work for me).

Priority 3 - As you may have seen from the topics that I'm faltering on in the 'Number properties' section, this is happening more so because I don't try CERTAIN values or choices in the questions (this is more applicable to DS questions). I don't really have a plan for this one either. Can you guide me how could I methodically go about plugging the CORRECT values? Perhaps, more practice?


VERBAL ANALYSIS

Right = 25
Wrong = 16
Unattempted = 0

String of problems that I got wrong and where these are placed in the verbal section - 4(2-5), 2(26-27), 2(32-33)
Time taken for the above sets of questions - 4.5 mins, 4 mins, under 2 mins.

Taken taken for last 5 questions - 9 mins 40 secs (approx.)
Success rate - 3/5

I'm assuming from the above statistic that I did not have to rush through this section towards the end.


Level of questions:
-------------------

Number of right questions in each of the verbal sections:

CR - 7/14
RC - 8/12
SC - 10/15


In CR and SC, I had wrong questions in each of the difficulty levels. Not a good sign, I presume.



Topics where I faltered:
-----------------------

Critical Reasoning

Worst - Find the assumption (both questions wrong), Draw a conclusion
Slowest - Explain a situation


Reading Comprehension

Worst - Inference (half my questions were wrong from this type of question), Main idea
Slowest - Specific detail

Sentence Correction

Worst - Modifiers, Verbs, Quantitative expressions, Pronouns
Slowest - Modifiers


Plan Ahead:
----------

Priority 1 - Understand how to answer assumption questions. Once again, I'll need your help on this one. I've tried reading this from the PowerScore CR Bible, but still don't have confidence on the topic. As far as 'Draw a conclusion' questions are concerned, I practiced them before the test, so I think I'm good on those.

Priority 2 - I have to keep SC on priority 2 since on my second GMATPrep I got almost all SCs wrong. I am already re-doing the Manhattan SC guide and also following Ron's videos on the site.

Priority 3 - Inference and Main idea videos from Thursdays with Ron. I've heard these videos give good insight into these type of questions, so I'll try them before moving on to other things.


Wow, this is a long post and I'm not sure if I'm moving ahead in the right direction as far as this analysis is concerned. Can you please comment and/or add to the points I've already jotted down?

PS - Point taken to not bump my posts in case I do not have anything to add to them.

And thanks to you it is for the first time that I am actually analyzing (or atleast starting to analyze) my tests and performance. I hope its a step forward!

Regards,
Karan

[bolopaneer]

hi karan
i am also karan.. :)

i am aslo giving retest

this month :(

on reading ur last post
i wonder


VERBAL ANALYSIS

Right = 25
Wrong = 16 (equal split between DS and PS)
Unattempted = 0

[kkapani]

Corrected that. Typo! :)

[StaceyKoprince]

2 problems wrong in a row = no big deal, and even 3 problems in a row (once) is not a huge deal, as long as it's not 3 in a row at the very end. 4+ is a definite problem.

But you also did have a string of 4 "wrong" in a row at the end, because you didn't attempt the last 4. Don't forget to add those to your list.

1 minute extra per question for 7 problems means I could have accomodated the 4 unanswered ones.

Bingo! That's why I want you to do the analysis yourself. That knowledge alone will help to prevent you from spending extra time next time, because you'll be able to tell yourself that you're likely just going to get it wrong anyway so let's stop now!

And you've narrowed it down even further. You tend to spend too much time on really hard PS problems. Good to know about yourself.

My problem is that I try hard to get a question right on the exam

So that mindset definitely needs to change. Read this article on time management and start doing what it says:

http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... anagement/

WT: sets, rates, and work are not that common, so don't worry as much about them - just make sure not to LOSE time on them. Stats Qs are more common, so some work to be done to get better there.

In general on complex word problems with many moving parts (where we'd normally use tables), try drawing pictures instead. A lot of people struggle with tables but are able to set up the sequence of events correctly (using a table or other methods, such as systems of equations) if they have a very clear, concrete picture of exactly what is happening and when. Make it real - pretend you're the person or machine described in the problem. What's the first thing you do? What happens after that? Etc.

These two articles can help:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/05/ ... -into-math
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/05/ ... ath-part-2

For the NP questions on which you need to plug in values, you mention mostly DS. Draw a little number line and label -1, 0 and 1, then also make a little notation for the numbers between -1 and 0 and the numbers between 0 and 1. Finally, note "pos int" and "neg int" on the line. These are the most common major "categories" of numbers that do different things when you square them, divide by them, etc.

You can try whatever numbers you think of as long as those numbers are allowed by the problem. If they tell you x is positive, then you can try, say, 1/2, 1, and 2, but not 0, -1, and so on.

Try whatever you think of first and see what answer that gives you. If it's a value problem, it'll give you a number. If it's a yes/no problem, it'll give you a "yes" or a "no."

Then ask yourself: "what else am I allowed to try from my number line that I think might give me a *different* answer (either a different number, if it's a value question, or the opposite of yes or no, whichever I got with the first number I tried)." Then try that and see what happens. If you can get a different answer, then you know that piece of info was not sufficient.

Now, at first, you're not going to be great at thinking of what else you could try, because that's the point - you're struggling with this right now. So after the time is up, you need to go back and ask yourself "what kinds of numbers made a different here? and what clues are in the problem that would have remembered to try certain kinds of numbers?"

Of course, on some of these problems, it doesn't matter what you try - you keep getting the same answer. That's what happens when the info is sufficient, right? So you try 3 or 4 and you keep getting the same answer so you finally just say "ok, well I guess it's sufficient then." Afterwards, go back and ask yourself WHY - really dig into the theory of what's going on and try to understand why, no matter what you try, you're always going to get the same answer. And ask yourself how you could have figured that out / realized that while you were testing the numbers in the first place.

If you can do that, it will help you develop the skills to think through the theory on new problems as you test numbers, and then you'll be able to realize after testing a few numbers - oh, it looks like I'm always going to get the same answer no matter what because XYZ, so I can stop now. This statement is sufficient. (Though sometimes you still just have to say - well, I'm not 100% positive, but I do keep getting the same answer, so I'm going to go with it.)

On verbal, it does look like you didn't have to rush at the end, but I don't know what kinds of questions those were. And what were the other ones for your strings of wrong answers? Eg, you missed Qs 2 thru 5 (4 questions) and spent a total of 4.5m. What kinds of Qs were those? If all 4 were SC, the time was about right. If all 4 were CR, the time was way too fast. Probably it was a mix - what was the mix?

CR:
Draw Conc: http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2009/10/ ... -questions
Find Assump: http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/CR-assumption.cfm
Evaluate Sit: http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/01/ ... on-problem

RC:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/04/ ... mp-passage
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/07/ ... rc-passage

http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/a ... estion.cfm
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/09/ ... prehension

SC:
general process for all SC: http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/06/ ... on-problem

alternate process for really long / convoluted Qs with a lot of modifiers (only use when needed b/c this process takes longer):
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/03/ ... sc-problem
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/03/ ... -problem-2

I also like your plan to watch Ron's videos. And, yes, it's so important to be able to do this analysis! Not only does the analysis help tell you what to do, but it can help you get better. Now that you've seen that timing data, that's going to make it a little bit easier to let certain quant questions go!