From Thursdays with Ron-November 17, 2011-SC: More problems

[supratim7]

Dear Ron,
While I was going through the November 17, 2011 Study Hall on SC: More problems with COMPARISONS that has PDF slides only, I came across few examples/prompts that are marked incorrect but the correct form is not there in the slides.

I have tried to figure out the correct form of such examples/prompts. It will be great if you check these and clarify/confirm. BTW, I have not attended this particular study hall live.

A. Compared to GMAT, GRE is much easier. Incorrect
* GRE is easier than GMAT. Correct??
* Compared to GMAT, GRE is very easy. Correct??

B. This year's interest rate is four time compared to last year. Incorrect.
* This year's interest rate is four times last year's. Correct??
* This year's interest rate is 8%, compared to 2% of last year's. Correct??

C. John is better code compared to me. Incorrect
* John is better code than me. Correct??

D. Stanford's average GMAT is higher as compared with that of Harvard's. Incorrect
* Stanford's average GMAT is higher than Harvard's. Correct??

E. The teacher was proud of Jane's 4.0 GPA as compared to her other classmates who are failing.
* The teacher was proud of Jane's 4.0 GPA as compared to the GPAs of her other classmates who are failing. Correct??

F. Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to the much lower GPAs of the rest of the students.
* Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to rest of the students who had much lower GPAs. Correct??

G. As compared to the humanities, quantitative fields require strong math skills.
* As compared to the humanities, which require strong verbal skills, quantitative fields require strong math skills. Correct??
* Quantitative fields require math skills that are stronger than those required in the humanities. Correct??

H. Compared to horses, humans are fast. Correct??
* Humans are faster than horses. Correct??

Appreciate your time.
Many thanks | Supratim

[tim]

for most of these, i am certain you have transcribed the examples incorrectly. because you have inserted additional grammatical errors into the examples, it will not be beneficial for us to discuss whether the other grammar errors have been corrected. please go back and copy each example EXACTLY as you saw it on the slides, and we will be glad to help you with these..

[supratim7]

Dear Tim,
Appreciate your reply.

Not sure though what you mean by "you have transcribed the examples incorrectly".

The first sentence/version of each 8 examples here reproduces the "incorrect usage example" EXACTLY as it appears in the study hall slide. I have neither modified them nor transcribed them incorrectly. Hope we are referring to the same study hall slide (November 17, 2011 Study Hall on SC: More problems with COMPARISONS).

Further, as I have mentioned in my last post, I have tried to figure out the correct form of these 8 "incorrect usage examples" from my side (highlighted with "*"). If you have reservations on these, by all means, do disregard them.

All I want to know is what would be the corrected version of the 8 "incorrect usage examples" that are there in the study hall slide.

Appreciate your time.
Many thanks | Supratim

[tim]

Thanks for pointing me to the source, and I apologize for ascribing the grammar errors to you. It appears that Ron copied grammatically flawed examples directly from submissions he got from students, and then you copied those over, so instead I should be blaming the students who originally submitted grammatically flawed examples! Your best bet here is to look at the correct example at the bottom of slide 13, which shows a comparison of two different numerical quantities. It is of course much easier to set up an appropriate comparison if we eliminate the word "compared", as you'll see below..

Please note that although most of these examples contain grammatical errors beyond just the comparison, I will address only the comparison issue. Thus you should not assume just because I indicate the comparison is correct that everything about the sentence is correct..

A. Compared to GMAT, GRE is much easier. Incorrect
* GRE is easier than GMAT. Correct??
* Compared to GMAT, GRE is very easy. Correct??

The first one is correct, the second is not (see the example on slide 15)

B. This year's interest rate is four time compared to last year. Incorrect.
* This year's interest rate is four times last year's. Correct??
* This year's interest rate is 8%, compared to 2% of last year's. Correct??

Both comparisons are correct

C. John is better code compared to me. Incorrect
* John is better code than me. Correct??

Correct

D. Stanford's average GMAT is higher as compared with that of Harvard's. Incorrect
* Stanford's average GMAT is higher than Harvard's. Correct??

Correct

E. The teacher was proud of Jane's 4.0 GPA as compared to her other classmates who are failing.
* The teacher was proud of Jane's 4.0 GPA as compared to the GPAs of her other classmates who are failing. Correct??

Poorly worded, but as near as I can tell the comparison is technically correct

F. Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to the much lower GPAs of the rest of the students.
* Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to rest of the students who had much lower GPAs. Correct??

We aren't comparing anything numerical here (note we are technically comparing Jane to the other students), so it looks like Ron's slide is saying this would be incorrect

G. As compared to the humanities, quantitative fields require strong math skills.
* As compared to the humanities, which require strong verbal skills, quantitative fields require strong math skills. Correct??
* Quantitative fields require math skills that are stronger than those required in the humanities. Correct??

The first one looks incorrect, but the second one is fine

H. Compared to horses, humans are fast. Correct??
* Humans are faster than horses. Correct??

The original looks wrong based on Ron's example at the top of the slide, but your version is fine

[supratim7]

Thank you so much Tim!

A. Compared to GMAT, GRE is much easier. Incorrect
* GRE is easier than GMAT. Correct??
* Compared to GMAT, GRE is very easy. Correct??

The first one is correct, the second is not (see the example on slide 15)

Slide 15 has 3 examples, not sure which one you want me to refer.
Would "Compared to GMAT, GRE is easy" be correct? Is the usage of "very" incorrect here?

E. The teacher was proud of Jane's 4.0 GPA as compared to her other classmates who are failing.
* The teacher was proud of Jane's 4.0 GPA as compared to the GPAs of her other classmates who are failing. Correct??

Poorly worded, but as near as I can tell the comparison is technically correct

Could you pls. suggest a construction that is better worded, keeping the comparison & meaning intact.

F. Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to the much lower GPAs of the rest of the students.
* Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to rest of the students who had much lower GPAs. Correct??

We aren't comparing anything numerical here (note we are technically comparing Jane to the other students), so it looks like Ron's slide is saying this would be incorrect

You are right. But how do I correct/re-structure it? Any advise/example?

F. Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to the much lower GPAs of the rest of the students.
* Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to rest of the students who had much lower GPAs. Correct??

We aren't comparing anything numerical here (note we are technically comparing Jane to the other students), so it looks like Ron's slide is saying this would be incorrect

True, but how to structure something like "Jane had a 4.0 GPA, while other students had lower than 4.0 GPA"?

H. Compared to horses, humans are fast. Correct??
* Humans are faster than horses. Correct??

The original looks wrong based on Ron's example at the top of the slide, but your version is fine

Why is the original wrong? Is it because it compares "Horses" with "Human's ABILITY"?
Pls elaborate a bit on this.

Appreciate your time.
Many thanks | Supratim

[tim]

Hi Supratim,
I apologize for the delay in getting back to you, but I've alerted Ron to this thread so he can help with your remaining questions. He will have a better handle on the message and intent of his slides than I do and should be able to answer your questions more readily than I can..

[supratim7]

Still waiting for some help on this post.

Many thanks | Supratim

[jnelson0612]

Still waiting for some help on this post.

Many thanks | Supratim

Hi Supratim, I just alerted Ron again. I am sure that he will help you as soon as he can.

[RonPurewal]

hi, so i think i will just respond to your first post, rather than to the existing discussion between you and jamie.

* Compared to GMAT, GRE is very easy. Correct??

gmat vs. gre is a valid comparison.

GMAC has not written a sentence (of which i'm aware, at least) that uses "compared" in this way, so i can't say whether the use of "compared" is correct.
if you wrote relative to the gmat, the gre is easy, that would definitely be legitimate. as for substituting "compared to/with" in the same construction, we'll have to wait to see what gmac does if/when they produce an example of such a construction.

* This year's interest rate is four times last year's. Correct??

yeah

* This year's interest rate is 8%, compared to 2% of last year's. Correct??

no. "2% of last year's interest rate" would mean 2% of that rate.
i.e., if last year's interest rate is X percent, then "2% of last year's interest rate" would be 0.02X. that's not your intended meaning here.

you could write, for instance,
this year's interest rate is 8%, compared to 2% just a year ago

C. John is better code compared to me. Incorrect
* John is better code than me. Correct??

this is currently a nonsense sentence -- a person can't be a code. since the sentence doesn't really mean anything in the first place, there's no sense in evaluating it any further.

are you trying to write that someone is a better programmer than someone else?

* Stanford's average GMAT is higher than Harvard's. Correct??

correct, except in that you can't just say "average GMAT"; you have to say "average GMAT score".

E. The teacher was proud of Jane's 4.0 GPA as compared to her other classmates who are failing.
* The teacher was proud of Jane's 4.0 GPA as compared to the GPAs of her other classmates who are failing. Correct??

this sentence also doesn't make much sense.
it would make sense if the teacher were proud of jane for achieving such a high gpa.
it would also make sense if jane herself were proud of her gpa.
on the other hand, the notion that the teacher could be proud of a student's accomplishments (as opposed to being proud of that student for achieving those things) is not very sensible.

here's an analogy:
i'm proud of my new shoe designs (if i'm the designer) --> makes sense
i'm proud of you for designing such awesome shoes (if you're the designer) --> makes sense
i'm proud of your new shoe designs --> doesn't make sense

so, again, not much point in evaluating this one as it's currently written.

F. Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to the much lower GPAs of the rest of the students.
* Jane had a 4.0 GPA, compared to rest of the students who had much lower GPAs. Correct??

no, because you are not actually comparing jane to the other students; you are comparing her gpa to the other students' gpas. therefore, you should write a sentence that makes that comparison accurately (as does the one with "F." in front of it).

* As compared to the humanities, which require strong verbal skills, quantitative fields require strong math skills. Correct??

this isn't a comparison at all, so, no.

this sentence makes sense with "unlike" in front, but not with "compared to".

* Quantitative fields require math skills that are stronger than those required in the humanities. Correct??

this is fine. it's awfully wordy (versus, say, quantitative fields require stronger math skills than (do) the humanities), but it's not incorrect.

H. Compared to horses, humans are fast. Correct??
* Humans are faster than horses. Correct??

well, it's a false statement, but at least it's correctly written.

--

by the way, this seems to be much too in-depth for the actual gmat.
when you see a comparison on the actual gmat, you basically just have to do the following two things:
* find the things that are supposed to match
* make sure they match
that's enough for the vast majority of comparison problems. so, for instance, if you had a sentence about jane's gpa on the test, you would probably have incorrect answers that compared jane (herself) with the other students' grades, vs. a correct answer that actually compared grades to other grades.
that's what they are really doing in most comparison problems: testing whether you can tell what is supposed to match what else. they are not trying to engage in endless nitpicking.

[supratim7]

Dear Ron,
A huge "thank you" for taking out time for such a long reply. Totally worth the wait.

Yes, you are right. It's bit too much. I often get stumped by "comparison", chronic non-native speaker issue I guess :)

As for the post, it is impeccable as always. You remind me of the Sanskrit sloka from the Vedic period c. 500 BC- "Gururbrahma, Gururvishnu, Gururdevo, Maheshvarah. Guruh Saakshaat Parabrahma, Tasmai Sri Gurave Namah" i.e. The teacher (Guru) represents the God (Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva). He is the supreme being (Parabrahma). He is the one who creates knowledge and sustains it. So, I bow to my teacher.

Best regards | Supratim

[tim]

wow, what a compliment! :)