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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by tim Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:31 am

:)
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by RonPurewal Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:44 am

eggpain24 Wrote:really nice explanation!


thanks.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by JaneC643 Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:00 am

Hi, Ron

Does the correct answer convey a wrong meaning: the attorney accuse the bank because the attorney fail to honor the promises to its customers? I know such interpretation is totally wrong, but here is an similar question:Recently documented examples of neurogenesis, the production of new brain cells, include the brain growth in mice when placed in a stimulating environment... You said the sentence is wrong because it means :"recently documented examples" rather than "mice" is placed in a stimulating environment. Quote: If you say "when + PAST PARTICIPLE", then this automatically applies to the SUBJECT of the clause to which it's attached.
I assume that two problems are similar in this respect, in other words, "by+doing" also applies to the subject of the clause to which it's attached.

Thank you for clarifying it!
Jane
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by RonPurewal Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:12 am

1/
you're quoting something that specifically mentions "when + __ed". the sentence at hand doesn't contain either of those elements.

2/
this idea extends to actions in general, even if they aren't strictly verbs.
e.g.,
james cheated at word games by using computer-based apps to find words.
tara accused james of cheating at word games by using computer-based apps to find words.
same principle.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by RonPurewal Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:12 am

nb:
despite observation #1 above, the same idea extends to "when __ed".
e.g.,
james always quit when faced with significant challenges.
nora chastised james for always quitting when faced with significant challenges.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by RonPurewal Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:14 am

...and, finally (and most importantly), the correct answers are not wrong.

• they will not have incorrect structures.
• their meaning will not be unreasonable.

if either of these appears to be the case—or if an existing "rule" seems to indicate that a correct answer is wrong—then that "rule" must be refined.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by CrystalSpringston Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:03 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:
dr_o Wrote:can anyone please explain why E is wrong?
Thanks


two things:
(1) incorrect idiom: 'promise of keeping' is wrong. the correct form is 'promise to keep'.
(2) change in meaning: the correct meaning is what appears in the original sentence, namely, that the failure to honor promises WAS the deceptive business practice. choice e, with its use of 'because', implies that the failure to keep promises LED TO (other) deceptive business practices. remember that you have to interpret words like 'because' very, very literally.


Hi Ron,
I would like to understand more about the second point.
You said, "because of" here wrongly modified "deceptive business practices", leading to an ambiguity.
How do we know "becasue of" does not modify "accused the bank "?

Thank you.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by RonPurewal Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:58 am

1/
when modifiers modify actions, they should modify the closest action. if not, the sentence is badly written.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by RonPurewal Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:58 am

2/
even if you interpret the modifier in that way, the sentence still doesn't make sense.
if you write 'i accused someone of X because / because of Y', then 'Y' should be the evidence that is the CAUSE of accusation 'X'.
in particular, 'Y' should not BE the same as 'X'—in other words, it should not BE the substance of the accusation itself.

e.g.,
I accused my brother of stealing the food because no one else had been in the kitchen.
--> MAKES SENSE

I accused my brother of stealing the food because he took it and ate all of it.
--> NONSENSE
in this case, 'he took it and ate all of it' IS the theft of the food.
thus this sentence says, in essence, 'i accused my brother of stealing the food because he stole the food.' nope.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by CrystalSpringston Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:58 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:2/
even if you interpret the modifier in that way, the sentence still doesn't make sense.
if you write 'i accused someone of X because / because of Y', then 'Y' should be the evidence that is the CAUSE of accusation 'X'.
in particular, 'Y' should not BE the same as 'X'—in other words, it should not BE the substance of the accusation itself.

e.g.,
I accused my brother of stealing the food because no one else had been in the kitchen.
--> MAKES SENSE

I accused my brother of stealing the food because he took it and ate all of it.
--> NONSENSE
in this case, 'he took it and ate all of it' IS the theft of the food.
thus this sentence says, in essence, 'i accused my brother of stealing the food because he stole the food.' nope.


Ron, I recalled the usage of because(of). I've made the same mistake before.
Thank you for reinforcing it to me.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by tim Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:48 pm

Let us know if there are any further questions on this one.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by RonPurewal Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:07 pm

CrystalSpringston Wrote:Ron, I recalled the usage of because(of). I've made the same mistake before.
Thank you for reinforcing it to me.


sure.
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by fionaw752 Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:58 am

A. by failing to honor its promise to its customers to keep
B. by its failure of honoring its promise to its customers to keep

Hi Ron,
I eliminate choice B because I think "by doing sth" is the correct form but not "by sth", am I correct?
thank you in advance
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Re: Even though it was not illegal for the bank to share

by RonPurewal Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:13 am

it's possible for "by" to be followed by a noun (I solved most of the problems by brute force).

between those two choices, though, you have a perfectly straightforward RELATIVE judgment.
• choice A is objectively BETTER (more efficient / less wordy)
• choice B is objectively WORSE (less efficient / more wordy)
... so, eliminate B and keep A.

this is the same type of thing i dicussed here:
post118104.html#p118104