Dismal Verbal Score...please help

[rahul.sukhi]

Hi Ron/Stacey,

I am in desperate need of your help.

I have been preparing for GMAT for the past 6 months and my focus was primarily to improve the verbal score.
I gave the diagnostic test in January and scored Q50/V21.
So, my target was to improve the verbal to 35-40 range and hit my target score of 700+.

I prepared for 6 months and improved decently well using MGMAT tests and various other sources, but today I gave my GMAT and scored a dismal 16 on verbal.

I was scoring in the range of 32-39 in MGMAT tests.
Please let me know what should I do to improve my verbal score to somewhere around 36-39 in GMAT exam in a 30-40 days
I am planning to take GMAT again in Aug end or Sep beginning.

Please help me with the course of action I should take to improve the score, as I have already exhausted all the tests of MGMAT...What should I do to check my progress.

Rahul

[StaceyKoprince]

I'm sorry you had such a rough test day. That's really surprising - you scored even lower than you did on your official diagnostic test and well below your practice tests.

The score differential is so large that something else is going on - it's not just that you don't know the material. It is possible that your practice test scores could have been inflated for various reasons, but there's no way you could score that well on practice tests if you really had no idea what you were doing.

First, we need to figure out why your verbal score dropped so much (and whether it was somewhat artificially inflated in the first place).

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ent-wrong/

Which factors do you think are at play for you?

Did you take your tests under 100% official conditions, including essay and IR? Did you have any timing issues, too fast or too slow? I'm guessing yes - that's one of the biggest contributors to score drops. Please describe in detail!

Did you take any GMATPrep tests during your prep? How did those go?

What did you do to study? What sources were you using and how did you study? What were your strengths and weaknesses?

Use the below to analyze your most recent MGMAT CAT(s):

http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Then come back here and tell us the results of your analysis.
(Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!)

You have plenty of resources still in order to check your progress - but we'll get to that later. That's only one part of the big picture. Right now, the big issue is figuring out what happened so that we can put together a plan.

[rahul.sukhi]

Hi Stacey,

Thanks for your reply.

After reading your reply and analyzing my performance of the test day, I have been able to figure out some of the flaws in my test strategy and the loopholes in the preparation.

I'm sorry you had such a rough test day. That's really surprising - you scored even lower than you did on your official diagnostic test and well below your practice tests.

The score differential is so large that something else is going on - it's not just that you don't know the material. It is possible that your practice test scores could have been inflated for various reasons, but there's no way you could score that well on practice tests if you really had no idea what you were doing.

First, we need to figure out why your verbal score dropped so much (and whether it was somewhat artificially inflated in the first place).

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ent-wrong/

Which factors do you think are at play for you?

Did you take your tests under 100% official conditions, including essay and IR? Did you have any timing issues, too fast or too slow? I'm guessing yes - that's one of the biggest contributors to score drops. Please describe in detail!

Did you take any GMATPrep tests during your prep? How did those go?

What did you do to study? What sources were you using and how did you study? What were your strengths and weaknesses?

Use the below to analyze your most recent MGMAT CAT(s):

http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Then come back here and tell us the results of your analysis.
(Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!)

You have plenty of resources still in order to check your progress - but we'll get to that later. That's only one part of the big picture. Right now, the big issue is figuring out what happened so that we can put together a plan.

I think I do not have a major issue with the concepts and I was confident to score in the mid 30s for the verbal, but yes i couldn't.

Here are the reasons which i could analyze in last few days.

Firstly, after test I was depressed as hell. I thought 6 months of preparation and it all went down, then after a day or two i picked myself up and started figuring out what went wrong.

During my preparation I took 1st GMATPrep in the start and didn't took the 2nd at all. I took all the test under the official condition. Yes, i took 10 minutes break (instead of 8), but that was not the factor in the drop of the score.

After 2 days of break after the exam, I gave the 2nd GMATPrep and scored 670 (Q50,V31) and then went to see what went wrong in the Verbal (although it is still greater than 16). I could see that as usual, i made some silly mistakes in the starting of the test...I had 2 streaks of 2 questions wrong till question number 27 (and total of 6 questions wrong till 27)...but interesting is that after 27th question, i.e. 28-41, I did 9 wrong...although some were really tough. But 9 wrong, there must be something really wrong. I figured out that subconsciously, I started moving faster because the time left is somewhere around 20-22 minutes when i was on 28th question.
So I think that is what I have never been able to figure out that I am making mistakes because of moving faster which i could never see before.

Secondly, I knew that i am not that good in RC (accuracy of 50-70%), so I need to compensate for that in SC and CR and I did make my CR and SC strong.

In my last test, I did 2 CR wrong and 2-3 SC wrong. So, i knew that I am going to score 30+ for sure, it can be 30 or if everything goes fine, then might be 39 (which I did in one of the MGMAT test).

To put more study into it.

I completed SC of 11th edition of Official Guide (Yesterday and today), I got 105/120. (105 correct out of 120) and the questions i missed, I was able to narrow down to 2 options. So, I think I do not lag in conceptual knowledge as such, It is just that i need to tighten the loose ends and figure out the strategy to improve the RC and minimize the negatives in SC and CR to near zero level and I know things will look much better in few days.

Her are the sources which i used to prepare for the GMAT.

OG12 (SC, CR and RC), OG10 (SC and CR)[Did OG10 religiously and did well in both CR and SC]
MGMAT SC GMAT strategy guide.
MGMAT tests (did all 6 tests and reviewed them, although i think i should have analyzed them more using the time spent on each question and whether i got that right or wrong)
GMATPrep (could have been used in more efficient manner, which i will)
GMAT club
Ron Purewal videos (Did not watch that religiously, will do that now)
some difficult questions set (700+ questions of CR and SC)

I did not prepare that well for RC because i wanted to be 100% right in my rest of the 2 sections (CR and SC) and 50-70% in RC, because i knew that I can compensate for RC by SC and CR) but i couldn't.

Although, I was really depressed after the test, but now I have picked myself up and started preparing again for the test.

I need your advice on many things. Here is the list:

1) What are the loopholes which you could see in the preparation and ways to improve those loopholes?
2) What is the right time to give the test again? i.e. How much time will be sufficient to prepare for the test again (target remains the same, i.e 700+ and the schools i am targeting has average cut off score of 700-710, so can't compensate on the score) [Will 30-40 days will be sufficient to fill the loopholes]

I was looking to apply to the BSchools in the R1, whose deadline is somewhere around September 15. But now I know i can't, So I am looking for R2 application whose last date is somewhere around 15th of November. Please suggest keeping this in mind.

3) What are the sources i can use to prepare better (Here I am pointing to just the tests), MGMAT tests i have completed almost 2 times, just 2 tests left in the 2nd round, so please suggest something on this [ Definitely i will give GMAT Prep multiple times, the same test and keep 2nd one for the last[New software, I hope they have some different set of questions].

I know that I am not that bad as my score reflect and I can score better than that, but yes failure is a failure and I have accepted that and this time i want to just kill the GMAT.

I did not discuss anything about the Quant because i know that quant is the my strong area and i can even hit 51 if all goes well and I never got less than 50 in quant. In last 3 tests, quant was 51.

Stacey, I think this might make something clear to you about the situation.

Thanks and Regards,
Rahul

[StaceyKoprince]

Agreed, taking a 10-minute break instead of 8 minutes isn't a big difference.

So I think that is what I have never been able to figure out that I am making mistakes because of moving faster which i could never see before.

Question: where you moving faster towards the end of verbal because you *had* to? Were you running out of time because you'd spent too much time on earlier problems? Or were you choosing to go faster even though you werent' running out of time? (People do this because they start to get mentally fatigued and just want the test to be over, so they speed up without realizing it.)

Either way, speeding up leads to careless errors, and that will obviously cause your score to drop. But we do want to know why so that we know what to do to try to prevent this from continuing in future.

If you're spending too much time on earlier problems, then we have to address things at that level - otherwise, you'll always have to speed up toward the end and your score will always drop. Timing problems are HUGE contributors to score drops, so I'm guessing there's probably more going on there than we have discussed so far.

Next, can you answer these questions, immediately and without thinking or looking things up?

How do you recognize a CR assumption question type?
What kinds of characteristics do you expect to see in a CR assumption argument?
What are they really asking us to do / find on CR assumption Qs?
What kinds of traps do they tend to set for us on CR assumption Qs? What kinds of wrong answers are the most tricky / tempting for you?

You should be able to do the above for all CR Q types. Can you?

If not, that means that your focus till now has been more on *doing* lots of questions, but less on learning how to recognize certain kinds of questions and what to do and not do on those different kinds of questions.

When we study individual problems, the goal is not simply to find the right answer on that problem. That problem will never be on the right test. The goal is to learn something that is generally applicable to all problems of that type, so that we get better in future on problems we've never seen.

Here's a test for SC: can you open up OG, pick any harder problem, cover up the original sentence, compare the differences in the answers, and tell me what grammar rules are being tested by that problem and how you know? Again, if you've been studying from the viewpoint of "how can this problem help me on future, unknown, different problems," then you should be able to do this.

What do you think about that? Do you think you might have been focusing too much on this-question-in-front-of-me, and not enough on what-can-I-take-away-for-different-questions-in-future?

I can't tell you a specific timeframe at this point, but it's likely to take longer than 30-40 days. We're talking about lifting verbal from 16 to the high 30s - that will take a lot of work. (And I know you know more than that 16 showed, but that's still the score you got on test day, which means that there are some significant problems that need to be fixed - even if a lot of that is mental stamina and timing.)

So that means do get started on applications as well - don't wait to be done with the GMAT first. You're going to spread out your work on both a little bit because you don't want to cram either one. (On the plus side, when you get sick of studying, you can work on an application. when you get sick of working on an app, you can study!)

[rahul.sukhi]

Question: where you moving faster towards the end of verbal because you *had* to? Were you running out of time because you'd spent too much time on earlier problems? Or were you choosing to go faster even though you werent' running out of time? (People do this because they start to get mentally fatigued and just want the test to be over, so they speed up without realizing it.)

Either way, speeding up leads to careless errors, and that will obviously cause your score to drop. But we do want to know why so that we know what to do to try to prevent this from continuing in future.

If you're spending too much time on earlier problems, then we have to address things at that level - otherwise, you'll always have to speed up toward the end and your score will always drop. Timing problems are HUGE contributors to score drops, so I'm guessing there's probably more going on there than we have discussed so far.

Most of the time, I get stuck in the RC and spend more than what should have been spent on that section.

RC has been a big pain area in my preparation and initially i thought i can do well by focusing more on CR and SC, but now i think i just cannot do well without improving my RC because i take much longer than what could have been taken.

So, I need your advice on how to do well in RC?

and RC is the only reason I have to move fast in the end, because i know that i will encounter another RC and that will eat a lot of time.

Next, can you answer these questions, immediately and without thinking or looking things up?

How do you recognize a CR assumption question type?
What kinds of characteristics do you expect to see in a CR assumption argument?
What are they really asking us to do / find on CR assumption Qs?
What kinds of traps do they tend to set for us on CR assumption Qs? What kinds of wrong answers are the most tricky / tempting for you?

You should be able to do the above for all CR Q types. Can you?

Well, looking at the questions above, I could answer some but not all. So, I think that this is what i also need to incorporate in the CR section of the preparation.

Although, i used to do decent enough in my CR section but yes definitely need to improve on this.

If not, that means that your focus till now has been more on *doing* lots of questions, but less on learning how to recognize certain kinds of questions and what to do and not do on those different kinds of questions.

When we study individual problems, the goal is not simply to find the right answer on that problem. That problem will never be on the right test. The goal is to learn something that is generally applicable to all problems of that type, so that we get better in future on problems we've never seen.

Yes, on this I completely agree with you. I never used to analyze the problems critically and yes that let me down.
I did lots of problem but never used to analyze the results so critically.
Focus was just to improve the score by hitting more questions right.

Here's a test for SC: can you open up OG, pick any harder problem, cover up the original sentence, compare the differences in the answers, and tell me what grammar rules are being tested by that problem and how you know? Again, if you've been studying from the viewpoint of "how can this problem help me on future, unknown, different problems," then you should be able to do this.

On some forum, I took advice of a wise man and started preparing for SC as a pure mathematics, by just finding the error and the type of errors in the sentence. Whether it is a modifier, verb tense, SV agreement etc.
So, I did SC on this strategy and I feel that I should just keep on practicing using the same strategy and things will be just fine.

What do you think about that? Do you think you might have been focusing too much on this-question-in-front-of-me, and not enough on what-can-I-take-away-for-different-questions-in-future?

I can't tell you a specific timeframe at this point, but it's likely to take longer than 30-40 days. We're talking about lifting verbal from 16 to the high 30s - that will take a lot of work. (And I know you know more than that 16 showed, but that's still the score you got on test day, which means that there are some significant problems that need to be fixed - even if a lot of that is mental stamina and timing.)

So that means do get started on applications as well - don't wait to be done with the GMAT first. You're going to spread out your work on both a little bit because you don't want to cram either one. (On the plus side, when you get sick of studying, you can work on an application. when you get sick of working on an app, you can study!)

Yes, I too think now that focus has been more on the problem in front of me rather than taking something really concrete out of the problem and learning something in problem for general.

On CR, i take your advice but still i need to know how to improve on RC. Although, i have started working on improving RC.

As some says that in RC everyone has a different strategy, but i would definitely like some advise on improving the RC.

Thanks and Regards,
Rahul

[StaceyKoprince]

RC it is. Here you go:

Reading:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... p-passage/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... c-passage/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -passages/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... rehension/

analyzing (+ RC inference):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/a ... estion.cfm

other question types:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/09/ ... prehension
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/11/ ... il-problem

That should keep you busy for a while... :)

[rahul.sukhi]

RC it is. Here you go:

Reading:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... p-passage/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... c-passage/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -passages/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... rehension/

analyzing (+ RC inference):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/a ... estion.cfm

other question types:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/09/ ... prehension
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/11/ ... il-problem

That should keep you busy for a while... :)

Hi Stacey,

Sorry that I am starting the thread again but i want to know something from you and it will be relevant that I ask those questions here.

I gave GMAT in july and has a bad score, then you suggested some methods to find flaws in the preparation and then methods to improve the score.

I want to start the thread with 2 results of the tests which i have given in the last 3 weeks.

1st test:
MGMAT (before 29th August) - I gave the test and scored 700 (Q-50, V-34)
GMATPrep (New) - 650 (Q-50, V-27)

In GmatPrep test, I had 5 CR wrong and out of that 5 i was stuck between 2 choices in 4 questions.
After that i searched those questions on the forums and even the instructor said on some questions that those questions are really tricky.
I don't think that there was any serious flaw in understanding or analyzing, it is just that i picked the wrong option.

In RC, i got 4 wrong (Which is a huge improvement from any previous test i have given)...RC was the weakest area and this i will take as an improvement and definitely would like to reduce the negatives.

In SC, i messed up, had 4/5 wrong and out of that 3-4 could have been saved.

Now question is that I feel that i have been preparing for pretty long and I have done all in my power to improve my score, why is that i am just missing some questions to be shy away from 700 score in gmat prep and in MGMAT i always hit 700 mark.

Are MGMAT not the accurate predictors or I am good in MGMAT tests and gmat prep are little different from the MGMAT tests?

My official score of GMAT1 is like this:

Q- 50
V- 16
IR - 7
AWA - 4

Please let me know what should i do to just move that last step to up my score?

Please help Stacey, this is just killing me now...

[StaceyKoprince]

Don't apologize - this is exactly where you should ask. It's best to restart the thread and keep all of your info in the same place!

I had 5 CR wrong and out of that 5 i was stuck between 2 choices in 4 questions.

I'll assume that one of the 2 answers was actually the correct one, right? :) Okay, so here's something you can study:

1) why was the wrong answer so tempting? why did it look like it might be right? (be as explicit as possible; also, now you know this is not a good reason to pick an answer)

2) why was it actually wrong? what specific words indicate that it is wrong and how did I overlook those clues the first time?

3) why did the right answer seem wrong? what made it so tempting to cross off the right answer? why were those things actually okay; what was my error in thinking that they were wrong? (also, now you know that this is not a good reason to eliminate an answer)

4) why was it actually right?

Also, just a note: you probably had other questions where you narrowed to 2 and did guess correctly - you just didn't notice because you got those right. :)

Are MGMAT not the accurate predictors or I am good in MGMAT tests and gmat prep are little different from the MGMAT tests?

Ours are pretty accurate, but GMATPrep is always going to be better - it's made by the people who make the real thing. On verbal, also, there's another thing to take into account: you can "learn" or "internalize" some of the language patterns of the test writers, and so get better at taking tests written by those same people. We have more tests available, so you've likely been taking more of our tests, and getting selectively a little better at those.

Finally, these tests all have standard deviations. Your last MGMAT score would correspond to a 680 to 690 once the scoring recalibration is taken into account, which is 30 to 40 points away from your GMATPrep score. That's within 1 standard deviation.

Again, though, we have to go with GMATPrep as the best predictor. Even there, you've made significant progress - your verbal on the official test was 16 and it was 27 on this last GMATPrep.

You've made huge strides in RC, it sounds like. For SC you said that you "messed up" and "3-4 could have been saved." Does that mean you made careless mistakes? Why, specifically, did you make each one? And what bad habits can you break or new habits can you build in order to minimize the chances of that same kind of mistake in future?

Also, the questions I posted above to ask yourself for those CR questions can be used to study any verbal questions - and don't only study the ones that you missed. Go back and study even the ones that you got right, because there were a lot of those that you narrowed down to 2 before you picked your final answer. You can still learn from them.

Finally, did you time yourself on that GMATPrep test? How was your timing for verbal? Timing typically causes significant score fluctuations, so that could also have had a significant impact on the swing in verbal scores.

[rahul.sukhi]

Hi Stacey,

After i wrote to you about the experience in the test and before and after your reply, I pulled out some of the facts regarding my performance in the CR Section.

I'll assume that one of the 2 answers was actually the correct one, right? :) Okay, so here's something you can study:

1) why was the wrong answer so tempting? why did it look like it might be right? (be as explicit as possible; also, now you know this is not a good reason to pick an answer)


2) why was it actually wrong? what specific words indicate that it is wrong and how did I overlook those clues the first time?

3) why did the right answer seem wrong? what made it so tempting to cross off the right answer? why were those things actually okay; what was my error in thinking that they were wrong? (also, now you know that this is not a good reason to eliminate an answer)

4) why was it actually right?

The wrong answer was so tempting because I read the argument and while eliminating the one out of 2 options (yes, the other one was the right answer), I did not go back to the argument to cross check the assumption, strengthen etc was followed from the argument. So, with practice (I did OG2 Verbal review) i was able to remove this error considerably.

And about why the wrong answer seemed right was because sometimes you read the argument and on the feel good factor that you understood the argument like a genius, but you didn't. So you have to go back for shortlisting between the two options.

And also the wrong answer was ticked because it seemed more fancy and generic but not specific to the situation at hand.

The only problem which i now face is the timing issue and that is not exactly the timing.

The issue is that I have tried to check my speed in the practice using some self made tests from OG, i.e. timing myself on the problems. I have seen that problems in which I read the argument and understand quickly usually get those problems right in less than 1 min 30 sec, and problems which i get wrong i usually take long time (> 1 min 30 sec). The point is all about understanding the argument in first go.
I sometime feel that argument is little difficult to understand for me in first go and there are some language nuances which i need to pick.

I don't know whether this can be fixed. Please let me know if you have anything to say on this front.

Also, just a note: you probably had other questions where you narrowed to 2 and did guess correctly - you just didn't notice because you got those right. :)

Previously i did not review all the questions but now I do, but yes I will keep this point in mind.

Ours are pretty accurate, but GMATPrep is always going to be better - it's made by the people who make the real thing. On verbal, also, there's another thing to take into account: you can "learn" or "internalize" some of the language patterns of the test writers, and so get better at taking tests written by those same people. We have more tests available, so you've likely been taking more of our tests, and getting selectively a little better at those.

Now with time I agree to this point, I have become better at MGMAT tests by practicing on MGMAT tests and GMAT Prep are not very far from these scores but yes, they still are away and I have realized that those guys language i need to master and to master it well.

You've made huge strides in RC, it sounds like. For SC you said that you "messed up" and "3-4 could have been saved." Does that mean you made careless mistakes? Why, specifically, did you make each one? And what bad habits can you break or new habits can you build in order to minimize the chances of that same kind of mistake in future?

For SC yes i should have saved those questions and I am working on it to reduce those silly errors.

For RC, I feel confident and with time I have devised my own strategy to tackle the RC. But yes, still need some more work to eliminate those wrong ones.

Finally, did you time yourself on that GMATPrep test? How was your timing for verbal? Timing typically causes significant score fluctuations, so that could also have had a significant impact on the swing in verbal scores.

I am afraid to say that I am still seeing more frequency of wrong answers toward the end of the test, i.e. from Q30-Q41, I need to improve on that. Although i have improved from the past, but yes I need to improve more to hit that mark of a good score.

The reason I have come up with is one and only one for the series of wrong question towards the end is none other than haste. Some questions are bound to get wrong, those 700+ level, but yes other can be saved.
and with timing I need to understand that there is sufficient time. I always have 20-25 minutes from 30th question, but always mess up those last few minutes.
If you have some strategy for this then let me know, till now your all help has been really helpful.



Thanks and Regards,
Rahul

[StaceyKoprince]

I did not go back to the argument to cross check

This is hugely important for both RC and CR. Glad to read that you've identified and are fixing that problem. :)

I sometime feel that argument is little difficult to understand for me in first go and there are some language nuances which i need to pick.

This is true for everyone - when we "get" the argument in the first readthrough, it's so much easier and faster to deal with the answers. For the tougher ones - do the same kind of study analysis that you've been doing with answer choices. Why was this one harder? What was it about the language that tripped you up? Was there some kind of idiomatic language or expression that you didn't understand? Make a flashcard to learn it. Was the structure of some sentence convoluted and hard to "unravel"? Practice unraveling complex sentences (useful for both RC and CR): find a verb. Find the subject that goes with it. Look for any other subj-verb pairs and see how they're related to the first pair. Then (and only then) start looking at the extra info - modifiers, etc. Try to get the core idea first.

The reason I have come up with is one and only one for the series of wrong question towards the end is none other than haste.

Are you FORCED to speed up because otherwise you would run out of time? Or are you speeding up on your own, probably because you're tired and would like the test to be done? There are two different solutions here, depending on which it is.

If you're forced to speed up, then you've got to fix the timing problems earlier in the section. That'll fix the problem at the end.

If, however, you're speeding up on your own (which is what it sounds like) - but you still do have adequate time - then once you hit question 30, make yourself be more systematic. Double-check your work on every problem (at least the parts where you know from experience you're more likely to make a careless mistake). Don't check your work on any really hard ones - those are fine - but anything where you're thinking, "Oh, yeah, I've got this!" check your work. Make sure you're writing down the 5 answers on verbal and crossing off as you go. Make sure you're checking the passage / paragraph for proof. Make sure you're reading answers thoroughly / not skipping over or missing words. Etc.