comparison problem

[manhhiep2509]

Hello.

My problem is related to question 85 in verbal review 2.

"My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as were bought by my dad"

As OG says the subject "people" can be understood, the subject "shoes" can be understood, isn't it.
So, how do we know the subject of "were bought by my dad" is "shoes" while we do not have any parallel structure?

Before see the OG explanation, I think that the sentence is incorrect because it seems to me that "mom" is also the subject of "were bought by my dad". Of course the meaning is illogical but that is what I see in the sentence without a parallel structure.
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are the sentences correct?
(1) "My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as those bought by my dad"
(2) "My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as those by my dad"
(3) "My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as bought by my dad"
(4) "My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as by my dad"

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Are these sentence correct?

(1) yesterday, the family had a picnic with more food and water than it had had for previous picnics.
(2) yesterday, the family had a picnic with more food and water than those it had had for previous picnics.

Thank you.

[RonPurewal]

Hello.

My problem is related to question 85 in verbal review 2.

"My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as were bought by my dad"

If the sentence were analogous to this one, you'd see "...as many as my dad bought" instead.
I don't have access to the verbal supplement right now, but I'll assume that the sentence in the supplement doesn't allow the writer to do likewise.

[RonPurewal]

As OG says the subject "people" can be understood, the subject "shoes" can be understood, isn't it.
So, how do we know the subject of "were bought by my dad" is "shoes" while we do not have any parallel structure?

* It's obvious that mom corresponds to dad.

* We're counting pairs of shoes; we're not counting moms. Therefore, "as many as" is definitely going to refer to the numbers of shoes.

Before see the OG explanation, I think that the sentence is incorrect because it seems to me that "mom" is also the subject of "were bought by my dad". Of course the meaning is illogical but that is what I see in the sentence without a parallel structure.

So, you've learned a lesson about "as many as".

[RonPurewal]

are the sentences correct?
(1) "My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as those bought by my dad"
(2) "My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as those by my dad"
(3) "My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as bought by my dad"
(4) "My mom bought three pairs of shoes, as many as by my dad"

All incorrect.

#1 and #2 don't work because you can't directly write that things are "more than" (or less than, or fewer than, etc.) other things.
I.e., you can say I have fewer books than you (do), but constructions like My books are fewer than yours are always wrong.

[RonPurewal]

In comparisons with "as"/"than", it's ok not to have strict parallelism if there's a verb in the second part.
E.g.,
as many species as are listed in this taxonomy
as many bucks as this hunter killed
etc.

If you have other constructions, parallelism is generally required.

#3 doesn't work because "bought by my dad", a modifier (i.e., not a verb), isn't parallel to anything on the left. ("Bought" on the left is a verb.)

#4 doesn't work for largely the same reason; there's nothing to correspond to "by my dad".

[RonPurewal]

Are these sentence correct?

(1) yesterday, the family had a picnic with more food and water than it had had for previous picnics.

It's not pretty, but it's ... not incorrect.

(In a well-written sentence, you'd see something like "The family had more food and water for yesterday's picnic than for any of its previous picnics.")

[RonPurewal]

(2) yesterday, the family had a picnic with more food and water than those it had had for previous picnics.

Nope.
If you try replacing "those" with "food and water", then you get a nonsense comparison, in which "food and water" (in general) is compared to "food and water it had had for previous picnics".

E.g.,
The boarding school has more boys than boys from local communities.
--> This sentence is nonsense. If you replace "boys" with "those", it's still nonsense.

The boarding school has more boys than (do) local communities.
--> Makes sense.

The boarding school has more boys from out of state than from local communities.
--> Also makes sense; note that there's no need to repeat "boys".

Boys from out of state fare better at this boarding school than do boys from local communities.
--> This is fine. You can't drop "boys" this time, because each instance of "boys" is modified differently.
You could (but certainly don't need to) replace "boys" with "those" in this sentence.

[manhhiep2509]

(2) yesterday, the family had a picnic with more food and water than those it had had for previous picnics.

Nope.
If you try replacing "those" with "food and water", then you get a nonsense comparison, in which "food and water" (in general) is compared to "food and water it had had for previous picnics".

E.g.,
The boarding school has more boys than boys from local communities.
--> This sentence is nonsense. If you replace "boys" with "those", it's still nonsense.

The boarding school has more boys than (do) local communities.
--> Makes sense.

How do you know"food and water" in "yesterday, the family had a picnic with more food and water" is general food and water, but not the food and water the family ate in the yesterday's picnic?

If I guess correctly, it is because "food and water" does not have a modifier to define it, isn't it?

If it is not, please explain further.

Thank you.

[tim]

The problem isn't so much whether the food and water is "general"; it's that you're comparing food and water rather than comparing what was brought. Take a look at Ron's examples all throughout the thread and you should see by analogy why you need to eliminate the "those" from your sentence.