comma +noun , vs as clause.

[thanghnvn]

During her presidency of the short-lived Woman’s State Temperance Society (1852-1853), Elizabeth Cady Stanton,// as she was a staunch advocate of liberalized divorce laws, scandalized many of her most ardent supporters in her suggestion that drunkenness should be// made sufficient cause for divorce.

A. as she was a staunch advocate of liberalized divorce laws, scandalized many of her most ardent supporters in her suggestion that drunkenness should be
B. as she was a staunch advocate for liberalized divorce laws, scandalized many of her most ardent supporters by her suggestion of drunkenness being
C. in being a staunch advocate for liberalized divorce laws, had scandalized many of her most ardent supporters with the suggestion of drunkenness being
D. a staunch advocate of liberalized divorce laws, scandalized many of her most ardent supporters by suggesting that drunkenness be
E. a staunch advocate of liberalized divorce laws, she scandalized many of her most ardent supporters in suggesting that drunkenness should be

in the above question, pls, explain, why "as ..." is wrong in choice A,B, and C. What is the difference in meaning between the "as..." in choi A,B,C and the "comma..."

[jnelson0612]

We're happy to help, but can you first please post the original source of this question?

[thanghnvn]

Of course, it is gmatprep question which is printed out from the software.

[jnelson0612]

in the above question, pls, explain, why "as ..." is wrong in choice A,B, and C. What is the difference in meaning between the "as..." in choi A,B,C and the "comma..."

This is a complicated sentence. Let's look at the non-underlined part:
"During her presidency . . . , Elizabeth Cady Stanton,

Because we have a comma right after "Elizabeth Cady Stanton", another modifier describing her must immediately follow her name. If we did not have this comma then the verb of the sentence should closely follow her name.

Which of the answer choices properly starts a modifier describing Elizabeth Cady Stanton?
A) as she was
B) as she was
C) in being
D) a staunch supporter
E) a staunch supporter

A and B, "as she was", is wordy and incorrect. C, "in being", is also incorrect. Always have suspicion toward the word "being". D and E are correct ways to start the modifier; they launch right into a description of her. This allows the construction:
Elizabeth Cady Stanton, a staunch advocate of liberalized divorce laws, scandalized . . .

D is the correct answer.

Please let me know if I can clarify further.

[gbyhats]

Hi Dear Manhattan Instructors :)

In choice B and C, is the use of "suggestion of drunkenness being..." acceptable?

[RonPurewal]

Hi Dear Manhattan Instructors :)

In choice B and C, is the use of "suggestion of drunkenness being..." acceptable?

not acceptable.

i wrote quite a bit about this type of thing in these two threads:

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... tml#p18293

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... ml?#p26678 (this post also contains some unrelated discussion)

[RonPurewal]

once you've read those discussions, you should then read about "with + (noun) + __ing", which follows completely different rules:

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... tml#p62683

[RonPurewal]

so, yeah. the issue is complicated. but here's a simple takeaway: if you see "(prep) + (noun) + __ing", and the preposition is NOT "with", then the construction is probably wrong.

note the hedge ("probably")——as noted in the links above, it's possible to use such constructions correctly. so, you should use this only as a guessing method, if you've run out of other things to consider.

[gbyhats]

Hi Dear Ron!!! :)

Thank you soooo much for your time and patient!!!

--

To help someone else reading this post, I will take a shot in explaining why "suggestion of sth..." in choice B&C is wrong using Ron's rule.

NOTE: below is a summary, I strongly encourage you to read Ron's links above

One mistakes for C and two mistake for B:

1/

Both for choice B and C:

Because of the "suggestion of drunkenness being", both sentence incorrectly means "supporter are scandalized by her suggestion ITSELF". however the true meaning should be "she suggest WHAT", not the suggestion ITSELF.

--

the construction (preposition) + NOUN + VERBing is WRONG, unless the preposition refers directly to the NOUN. (that isn't usually the case, so, if you're in doubt, you should strike choices with this sort of construction.)

(by far, preposition "with" is a exception: with + NOUN + VERBing can correctly use the action of VERBing as a modifier)

e.g.

i've never heard of bees stinging dogs
WRONG. this is not an issue of whether you've heard of bees themselves; it's an issue of whether you've heard of their stinging dogs.

...results in the act of stinging causing...
WRONG. this doesn't result in the act of stinging itself; it results in what is caused by the act of stinging.

i have a picture of my cousin playing hockey.
CORRECT. this time, the picture is actually of my cousin, so we're good.

--

2/

Another mistake for choice C:

we should add "her" before "suggestion"

--

if the focus of the construction is the ACTION, then you must use the POSSESSIVE form for the noun/pronoun preceding the "-ing" participle.

e.g.

everyone laughed at me accidentally walking into the girls' bathroom --> WRONG. sorry. this sentence would actually mean that everyone laughed at me as they were walking into the girls' bathroom.
everyone laughed at my accidentally walking into the girls' bathroom --> CORRECT, because it's the action (my walking into the bathroom, not really me) that they're laughing at.

--

I'm surprised that I didn't recall words you said in your links

In other words, I'm a huge fan of you, and ,before I asked this question, I had read your posts in the first two links you posted. But I didn't recall those when facing this "suggestion of sth..." expression.

[RonPurewal]

cool.

if necessary, you can always just guess that "xxxx + that + noun + [verb]" is going to be better than "xxxx + of + noun + [verb]ing". i don't think i've ever seen it go the other way.

[RonPurewal]

see, if you do run across a sentence in which "of + noun + [verb]ing" is correct (e.g., I took a picture of my cousin playing hockey), then you almost certainly won't even face this sort of decision in the first place, because the alternative (e.g., I took a picture that my cousin played hockey) would clearly be nonsense.

so, if you do see this sort of split, you can be quite confident about going with "that + noun + ____".

[RonPurewal]

... and another quick test:
if "that + noun + verb" works, then the sentence should also work with "the fact"/"the idea"/"the notion"/etc. inserted directly before that construction.

I can't believe that people sometimes bite dogs.
I can't believe the idea that people sometimes bite dogs.

That you were on time surprised everyone.
The fact that you were on time surprised everyone.

so now you have approximately 10,000,000 ways to make this sort of judgment.

[gbyhats]

Hi Dear Ron :)

Thank you very much for your thoughtful replies!!!

if necessary, you can always just guess that "xxxx + that + noun + [verb]" is going to be better than "xxxx + of + noun + [verb]ing".

Yes! To me, it's 100% attractive advices. I never see a single time "xxx + of + noun" wins when both "xxxx + that + noun + [verb]" and "xxxx + of + noun + [verb]ing" appears.

see, if you do run across a sentence in which "of + noun + [verb]ing" is correct (e.g., I took a picture of my cousin playing hockey), then you almost certainly won't even face this sort of decision in the first place, because the alternative (e.g., I took a picture that my cousin played hockey) would clearly be nonsense.

Wow! That's smart. I'm learning new things everyday because of you!

if "that + noun + verb" works, then the sentence should also work with "the fact"/"the idea"/"the notion"/etc. inserted directly before that construction.

How can I forget this stuff! I just read a similar post you wrote a few day ago!

[RonPurewal]

How can I forget this stuff! I just read a similar post you wrote a few day ago!

i don't generally remember things i wrote more than a few weeks ago, so, if some piece of advice is important, it's likely to be found in multiple places on the forum.

[gbyhats]

Hi Dear Ron!!!

i don't generally remember things i wrote more than a few weeks ago

Oops you are right! The post I mentioned should be about a year ago.

--

I, unfortunately, made a classic GMAT style mistake:

I misplaced my modifier

[original] I just read a similar post you wrote a few day ago!

"a few day ago" modifies VERB "wrote" by mistake.

[edited] A few days ago, I just read a similar post you wrote!