As it is with traditional pharamacies, on-line drugstores

[jnelson0612]

Why A is wrong?

in the phrase " as it is with..." in A, "it" can be used as in "it is good that I learn gmat" and "it" is grammatical

is my thinking correct? pls, advise.

Ron answered this question on the previous page, and his answer is the last post on the page. I'll paste it again here:



"(a) "as it is with..." isn't parallel to anything. this is the main problem.
nothing "is with" online drugstores, so this choice is not sufficiently parallel."

[messi10]

Hello,

I have a query on the overall takeaway for this question.

In most comparison problems with 'like vs as' split, I have seen 'as' appearing with clauses.

But in this case, in answer choice B, 'as' appears with a prepositional phrase. I eliminated B because I was looking for a verb to go with the 'as' clause. Even though answer choice B is wrong, it is not wrong because the 'as' clause doesn't contain a verb. In fact, its not a clause at all.

So this means that we have to be a much more careful with the comparison 'as'? It is much more flexible than 'like', which can be eliminated very quickly based on logic?

Thanks

[jlucero]

Hello,

I have a query on the overall takeaway for this question.

In most comparison problems with 'like vs as' split, I have seen 'as' appearing with clauses.

But in this case, in answer choice B, 'as' appears with a prepositional phrase. I eliminated B because I was looking for a verb to go with the 'as' clause. Even though answer choice B is wrong, it is not wrong because the 'as' clause doesn't contain a verb. In fact, its not a clause at all.

So this means that we have to be a much more careful with the comparison 'as'? It is much more flexible than 'like', which can be eliminated very quickly based on logic?

Thanks

Correct. You get a lot more leeway with the word "as", but as Ron explained, you have to make sure there is very close parallelism here. With clauses, as long as the verbs match up, you're fine. But with prepositional phrases, you need to have a more concrete comparison:

it's possible for "with the case of" to be correct, but the preposition "with" would have to make sense, AND you'd have to be literally talking about "the case of" something.
for instance: the lawyer made history with the case of X, as with the case of Y

[messi10]

Thanks Joe!

[jlucero]

Sure thing!

[vietmoi937]

As it is with traditional pharmacies, on-line drugstores rely on prescriptions to be successful, since it is primarily prescriptions that attract the customers, who then also buy other health related items.

A.
B. As with the case of traditional pharmacies, on-line drugstores rely on prescriptions to have success
C. As is the case with traditional pharmacies, prescriptions are the cornerstone of a successful on-line drugstore
D. As traditional pharmacies, so on-line drugstores rely on prescriptions to be successful
E. Like traditional pharmacies, the cornerstone of a successful on-line drugstore is prescriptions.

I tried to apply POE.
E will be out since "traditional pharmacies" and "cornerstone" are not comparable.
I don't know how to eliminate the rest. =(

it takes me a long time to figure why B is wrong.

Ron already explained why B is wrong in the previous posting, but I wish you confirm the following my idea.

B is wrong for the ellipsis problem. we can use this prepositional phrase if the ellipsis permits us to do so.

the lawer makes history with this case, as with the last case.

whenever we see prepositional phase goes after a conjuction, think of ellipsis.

is my thinking correct?

[jlucero]

You're going to have to explain what "the ellipsis problem" is, because I'm not familiar with it.

[mcmebk]

Hello,

I have a query on the overall takeaway for this question.

In most comparison problems with 'like vs as' split, I have seen 'as' appearing with clauses.

But in this case, in answer choice B, 'as' appears with a prepositional phrase. I eliminated B because I was looking for a verb to go with the 'as' clause. Even though answer choice B is wrong, it is not wrong because the 'as' clause doesn't contain a verb. In fact, its not a clause at all.

So this means that we have to be a much more careful with the comparison 'as'? It is much more flexible than 'like', which can be eliminated very quickly based on logic?

Thanks

Correct. You get a lot more leeway with the word "as", but as Ron explained, you have to make sure there is very close parallelism here. With clauses, as long as the verbs match up, you're fine. But with prepositional phrases, you need to have a more concrete comparison:

it's possible for "with the case of" to be correct, but the preposition "with" would have to make sense, AND you'd have to be literally talking about "the case of" something.
for instance: the lawyer made history with the case of X, as with the case of Y

My previous understanding was exactly the same as Messi's.

I thought when used as a sign of comparison, AS should be connected with clause containing subject and verb, and LIKE should be connected only with noun.

Now i have to re-think what I knew: in this example:

He opened the melon with his hands, as with a knife
or He opened the melon with his hands like with a knife

Which one is correct?

Also when AS is followed by a clause, how strictly required for parallesim?

As turtles are reptiles, so too are snakes. - the second part of the sentence does not start with a noun "SNAKES", so this is acceptable in GMAT?

[jlucero]

Hello,

I have a query on the overall takeaway for this question.

In most comparison problems with 'like vs as' split, I have seen 'as' appearing with clauses.

But in this case, in answer choice B, 'as' appears with a prepositional phrase. I eliminated B because I was looking for a verb to go with the 'as' clause. Even though answer choice B is wrong, it is not wrong because the 'as' clause doesn't contain a verb. In fact, its not a clause at all.

So this means that we have to be a much more careful with the comparison 'as'? It is much more flexible than 'like', which can be eliminated very quickly based on logic?

Thanks

Correct. You get a lot more leeway with the word "as", but as Ron explained, you have to make sure there is very close parallelism here. With clauses, as long as the verbs match up, you're fine. But with prepositional phrases, you need to have a more concrete comparison:

it's possible for "with the case of" to be correct, but the preposition "with" would have to make sense, AND you'd have to be literally talking about "the case of" something.
for instance: the lawyer made history with the case of X, as with the case of Y

My previous understanding was exactly the same as Messi's.

I thought when used as a sign of comparison, AS should be connected with clause containing subject and verb, and LIKE should be connected only with noun.

Now i have to re-think what I knew: in this example:

He opened the melon with his hands, as with a knife
or He opened the melon with his hands like with a knife

Which one is correct?

Also when AS is followed by a clause, how strictly required for parallesim?

As turtles are reptiles, so too are snakes. - the second part of the sentence does not start with a noun "SNAKES", so this is acceptable in GMAT?

You don't have to rethink what you know. You have to recognize that there are exceptions to almost any grammar rule you will come across and not try to dig up the foundation of what you have found to be true in 99% of cases. As Ron said in page 1, the exception to the rule is when you are using with and a literal "case of" something. I'd be shocked if you came across this exception on test day. But your analogies aren't similar to the one Ron came up with because

"He opened the melon with his hands and a knife." is much simpler and easier to understand than either of your two sentences.

If you do want one add-on to the rule that you've established, it's to be careful when trying to compare "like + preposition". In all the instances being discussed, we need to be careful to not include a preposition + another preposition. So "like with a knife" or "like with the case" is going to be wrong.

[ghong14]

How does the online drugstore not have to come immediately after traditional pharmacies? Is it because of the as with the case construction?

For example: as her brother did, Jaimie runs very fast. The comparison is valid. However, isn't C comparing traditional pharmacies with prescriptions rather than online drug stores?

[jlucero]

How does the online drugstore not have to come immediately after traditional pharmacies? Is it because of the as with the case construction?

For example: as her brother did, Jaimie runs very fast. The comparison is valid. However, isn't C comparing traditional pharmacies with prescriptions rather than online drug stores?

Your examples is a perfect analogy of how adding a verb is not necessary, but not wrong either. Like her brother, Jamie is fast. As is her brother, Jamie is fast. As is the case with her brother, Jamie is fast. And yes, "as is the case" is what allows us to compare clauses in the correct answer.

prescriptions are the cornerstone of a successful online drugstore

as is the case (that prescriptions are the cornerstone) with traditional pharmacies

[kedieez967]

hi, ron, sorry for bumping the thread.

please confirm my idea.

"on-line drugstores rely on prescriptions to have success" in the choice B sounds awkward to me, because "to be successful"or "to succeed" is much clearer than "to have success" in meaning.

is this idea right?

Thank you very much!

[RonPurewal]

hi, ron, sorry for bumping the thread.

please confirm my idea.

"on-line drugstores rely on prescriptions to have success" in the choice B sounds awkward to me, because "to be successful"or "to succeed" is much clearer than "to have success" in meaning.

is this idea right?

Thank you very much!

i agree with you in this instance.
in general, though, it's risky to trust this sort of instinct unless it's a VERY STRONG instinct.
if it is, in fact, a VERY STRONG instinct, then it's probably not wrong. (:

[RonPurewal]

incidentally, you can't say 'with the case...', unless you're talking about something someone did WITH an actual case.
e.g.,
With the Smith case, the young lawyer solidified her reputation as a formidable litigator.
--> this sentence describes what the lawyer ACTUALLY DID WITH this case.
--> here, 'case' means a court case, which is a completely different animal from the kind of 'case' used in the sentence above.

in general, the only little words you'll see in front of this type of 'case' are...
...'is/was/has been/had been the case with xxx'
...'as in the case of xxx'

[RonPurewal]

finally, consider the (much more common) construction 'Like X, Y ...
IF IT'S POSSIBLE to write THIS construction, then certainly that's a better option than 'As in the case of X' or 'As was/is/has been/had been the case with X'.

so... if a sentence starts with 'As in the case of X / As is the case with X', the following subject should NOT be 'Y'.
...because, if the following subject IS 'Y', then you can write a BETTER sentence by using 'Like X...'

hopefully you're following me here. (i'm finding this hard to explain in words.)

the point is this:
if the correct answer were written like A, B, or D—i.e., with a main sentence starting with the subject 'online drugstores'—then there would be no need for 'the case'.
rather, such a sentence would just be written as Like traditional pharmacies, online drugstores rely on prescriptions to succeed (or something along those lines).