Advise on Verbal - current skill level - Q44/V28

[viralgautamjhaveri]

Hi,

I'm writing here see if I can get some help with improving my Verbal skill level. After 15 days of Prep, I've consistently scored 40+ in the Q section, although I do need to focus on DS problems to get in the 45+ range.

However, my main cause for concern is that my V skill is weak and I'm not able to get past the 28-30 range. I've about 4-6 weeks of prep time left before I take the test and I'm currently using the OG for practice. I've realized that my RC skills are particularly weak, and that I lose steam by the time I'm done with the second RC passage, thereby affecting the subsequent questions as well.

It would be great if I could get some inputs/suggestions as to how should I go about my verbal prep going forward, assuming I were to begin on a clean slate. Specifically, I need some info about the ideal study material for a non-native English speaker like me and how should I structure my prep (4-5 hours a day) if I were to reach my target score of Q50/V40 in about a months time.

Thanks,
Viral

[charljulien]

Same situation for me, here stuck-around-610-because-huge-weakness-in-verbal-any-help-t19290.html

Very frustrating indeed.

Here is my current verbal diet:
>>> Nowadays I practise SC and CR questions on GMAT club.
>>> I also did some of the last CR questions (from 100 to 120) of OG13 (last questions are more difficult in OG, don't lose time with the first 50 ones). I had a mere 50% rate of correct answers. But those are difficult. You can go ahead for practise. I think it will help.
>>> I correct carefully my mistakes from previous CAT exams (explanations are excellent)

I ll have another Manahattan CAT later today to see if it helped.

[viralgautamjhaveri]

Thanks charljulien! I've been using the OG as well haven't tried the questions on GMAT club yet.

Hopefully a MGMAT tutor can revert with a structured roadmap.

Regards,
Viral

[charljulien]

Hey,

I have been long to reply. I attended my 4th CAT test, in between two work shifts overnight, and I exited the exam at question 34 of verbal. When I relogged, it considered I skipped the remaining questions.
q41 V26: 570 No comment. A quick look at my stat indicated that I was doing around the 64 pourcentile in verbal, not too bad, but not awesome as well.

Well, I took my 5th CAT exam tonight. Here it is:
q41/ v36: 640. Over the 80th pourcentile in verbal and several questions in a row in the 99%. My stats of wrong and right answers averages are well above my previous exams in verbal :)

So I am quite happy that my efforts paid finally. I will concrete a little bit quants to assure a q44 and try my best to keep up to the 80th pourcentile in verbal.


So here my diet up to now (only verbal):
- GMAT Club, you wake up, live it, breathe it, do it, correct it, test it, challenge it, sleep with it and dream it, you can even remix daft punk.
- Careful correction of my former CATs.
- OG13's last 50 SC and CR.

Here is what waiting for me before G-day:
- A set 100 challenge SC questions (source GMAT CLub)
- A 3 sets of 277, 194 and 171 of SC challenging questions (source, my former GMAT tutor)
- Some 700-800 in quant set as well (source former GMAT tutor), after all q41 is only the 54th pourcentile.
- GMAT Club

If you need help or we exchange doc --> MP

Cheers

Charles

[StaceyKoprince]

Let's see, you want to lift Q from 44 to 50 (from 63rd percentile to 90th percentile) and V from 28 to 40 (48th to 90th percentile). And you want to do that in about a month or so.

I know you don't want to hear this, but the vast majority of people would need more than 4 weeks to make that kind of improvement. Is the timeframe / deadline more important to you? (That is, you need to take it by then and you'll just go for whatever imrovement you can get in that timeframe?) Or is the score more important to you? (That is, you would postpone the test if you weren't at or close to that desired score?)

Figure that out now because, if you would postpone, then I'd advise you to assume you're going to have to postpone right now. A real study plan to hit that kind of huge improvement is going to be a lot more than what you could cram into 4-6 weeks.

Either way, in terms of a study plan, start here:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmat/

You may also want to look at this, just from the point of view of the "clean slate" you mentioned (this contains a lot of the same ideas as the above article, but may have some other useful things):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... an-part-1/
That last article is a 2-parter; make sure to read both parts.

Also, use the below to analyze your most recent MGMAT CAT(s):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Then come back here and tell us the results of your analysis and what you think you should do based on that analysis. We'll tell you whether we agree and advise you further. (Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!)

At that point, I'll also be able to point you towards specific resources - I just need to know your strengths and weaknesses first.

p.s. charljulien, I responded to you in your own thread.

[viralgautamjhaveri]

Stacey,

Thanks for your reply. In a nutshell, my situation is such:

1. The GMAT score is a priority (700+) and not the time frame. However, in order to make the deadline for one particular school that I am interested in applying to, I need to take the test by April-end at the latest. Having said that, I am at the current level (Q44/V28) with only 15 days of prep and therefore feel that an additional 4 weeks should be enough. I can commit about 5 hours a day consistently towards test prep. In case I realize that I need further improvement, I can afford to push the test back by a couple of weeks. I think I will take that call in about 3 weeks time.

2. I havent taken the MGMAT CAT yet as I want to improve my Verbal skills before I take any more practice tests. However, I am focusing on my weaknesses now and should take the CAT in about 8-10 days time. From the 3 CATs that I have taken earlier (with the AWA, IR and 8 min breaks), here is what I have gathered:

Quant:
a) I am comfortable with most types of PS problems and dont end up spending too much time per question in general.
b) DS is a major weakness. In tests and during practice, accuracy is low. I think a significant improvement here alone will put me in the 47+ zone.
c) Timing is an issue, although not as much as earlier, especially for DS word problems. I am taking too long AND getting them wrong. After reading one of your posts earlier, I have started taking a random guess on certain problems and moving on. As a result, I am now able to dedicate an adequate amount of time to the last 8-10 questions, as opposed to rushing and making random guesses as I did in the first CAT I took.

Verbal:
a) RC is a major weakness, especially Inference type questions. I am not much of a reader and am finding it difficult to retain information.
b) CR is not too strong either, major weaknesses are in "boldface' and "weakness" type questions.
c) SC is a strength and I feel like I have gotten even better since the V28 CAT.
d) After the 2nd RC passage on the CAT, I am pretty much brain dead. I realize I am reading information but not processing any of it. As a result, not just the RC but even the subsequent problems on the test are taking a hit. I feel I need MAJOR improvement in this regard.

I hope this helps you understand where I stand and give some pointed advice. Of course, I will take the MGMAT CAT and come back here with the break-down. In the meanwhile, maybe if you can point me in the right direction so I can prepare for the CAT accordingly.

I just went with the flow and realized its a rather long post, not exactly a nutshell. Hope you dont mind, Stacey, and thanks once again for writing back.

Regards,
Viral

[StaceyKoprince]

Okay, first - raising both subscores to 90th+ percentile will put you in 750+ range, not 700+ range. :) See why I was saying 4 weeks wouldn't be nearly enough?

You don't need to hit 90th on both subscores in order to hit 90th (700) on the overall score.

Second, the higher you go, the harder it gets to go even higher. Just FYI.

Third, even if you are studying 5 hours a day, there are some things that can't be rushed. It's not just about how much you cram in. :)

Your description for quant sounds good (although once you do take an MGMAT CAT, analyze it using that article I gave you and tell me what it says with respect to timing. It's *extremely* rare for someone not to have timing issues on PS - like maybe 1 person a year, and I talk to many students a day.

Given that you've only been studying for about 2 weeks and you're at 60-ish percentile now, you'll want to try to push quant to 90-ish. Verbal isn't going to make that same leap (not in that timeframe, anyway) - but that's okay. As I said, you don't have to get both into the 90s.

What have you been using to study RC and CR - that is strategies that can help you to read more efficiently, retain some info while ignoring other info (and knowing which is which), strategies for answering the different kinds of questions, etc? (Note: I don't mean practice tests or practice problems - those help you to practice, of course, but they don't actually teach you how to get better at these things.)

Every test prep company has books on RC and CR, so you can check those out. There are also various online materials - I'll give you some links to various articles on our blog (that'll also give you an idea of what our books will be like).

You mention in particular issues with reading RC. Do you have access to our OG Archer program? We've only just started doing RC, but I've got two videos up discussing how to read the last two passages in OG13 - and I tried to address both what to read and what NOT to read (and how to know the difference). If you have access, go try those. (Read / do the passages first, then watch the videos.)

RC reading resources:
how to read:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... p-passage/

what to read and what not to read (2):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -passages/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -passages/

finding the point:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... c-passage/

Question types:
infer: http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/a ... estion.cfm
detail: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... e-details/
http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/11/ ... il-problem

CR
main process:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... g-problem/

main Q types:
infer: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... e-Problem/
assumption: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -problems/
weaken: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... n-problem/
strengthen: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... n-problem/

That should get you started :)

[viralgautamjhaveri]

Stacey,

Thanks for your previous post, I went through the links and found them really helpful. I took the MGMAT CAT I over the weekend and here are the results:

Score: 640 (Q42/V35)
Previous score: 590 (Q43/V28)

Here is the analysis of the incorrect answers:

1) Incorrect answer chain:
4 answers incorrect in a row: Q: NO V: NO
3 answers incorrect in a row: Q: Twice V: Once

2) Way too slow:
Q:
1 DS problem 600-700 level - 3:00
1 PS problem 600-700 level - 4:17
Guessed on 1 DS problem
V:
1 CR question 700-800 level - 3:57
Guessed on 1 RC question

Level of incorrect answers for each Question type:
Q:
DS:
600-700: 9 and 700-800:1 (10 total)
PS:
600-700: 4 and 700-800: 3 (7 total)

V:
SC:
600-700: 0 and 700-800: 4 (4 total)
CR:
600-700: 2 and 700-800: 4 (6 total)
RC:
600-700: 2 and 700-800: 4 (6 total)

I felt that the level of Quant was slightly higher than GMATprep and there were several questions which I could solve after the test, without the pressure of a clock ticking down. The good news is that there is an improvement from the previous test that I took couple weeks ago, specifically in Verbal. However, I am still facing problems with DS question types in Quant and RC and CR question in Verbal.

Can you please advice on the way forward? What do you think I need to do to move towards the ~670 mark for the next MGMAT CAT if I plan on taking it with the next 8-10 days time? I am hoping to have a gradual improvement towards the 700+ mark and tentatively set an official test date for mid-April.

Please advice.

Thanks,
Viral

[StaceyKoprince]

I'd need a lot more information than what you provided in order to advice you on a path forward.

You've provided me with some data and analysis, and I'll comment on that, but you do need to do the full test analysis again (every time you take a test).

I'll copy and paste what I said below:

Also, use the below to analyze your most recent MGMAT CAT(s):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Then come back here and tell us the results of your analysis and what you think you should do based on that analysis. We'll tell you whether we agree and advise you further. (Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!)

In other words, you have to tell me what you think the "way forward" is. Then I'll tell you whether I agree. (We do things this way because you can't get advice from a teacher every single day about how to move forward - not unless you've got a LOT of money to hire your own personal private tutor full-time. You've got to learn how to read the data and figure out yourself how to move forward, constantly!)

From the data that you presented, it does look like DS is weaker than PS (although I'd also want to know how much time you spent on those... many times, I find that people are "worse" on DS because they answer those more quickly and make more careless mistakes). So go back over those DS (and PS) and figure out WHY you missed each one and what you would need to do in order to either (a) answer a question like that both correctly and efficiently next time or (b) make a good guess and move on without losing time.

For verbal, your performance is closer - those number differences could just be due to the specific test. But there are also usually more SC questions than any other type, so that bolsters the idea that SC is the strongest of the three.

But I have no idea which quant areas are giving you trouble or whether your CR problems are due more to assumption questions or inference questions or whatever. Dive into the data more deeply (using the article above) and give both that data and what you think the data means.

Re: how to move your score to 670 in 8-10 days - I don't know how to advise you at all without more in-depth information, but 8-10 days is also not a ton of time and improvement on these tests tends not to be linear. In short, I'll never be able to tell you, "do X, Y, and Z, and you'll improve to ABC in 1-2 weeks."

Ideally, you take the test when your practice test scores get into the range that you want on the real test - and you can't predict when that's going to happen. (If we could predict the future... well, we'd be pretty rich!) Alternatively, you take the test when you have a deadline, so you don't have a choice - but then you might not have time to get to your goal score.