A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States...

[Guest]

(GMAT Prep Exam)

A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities


OA: D

Please help clarify this for me.

Since more then one action occurred at different times in the past, we must use the past perfect tense for the earlier action and the simple past for the later action (SOURCE: MGMAT SC BOOK pg. 46)

I chose A because it describes the on going action in the past using past perfect (had been) and uses the simple past verb form (reduced) to describe the action that impacted the dumping.

SPOILER:
The correct answer tells us that the agreement reduced the amount of phosphates the muni's "are allowed to dump". This completely distorts the meaning of the sentence. The original example reads like a chronological recount of history. By putting the present tense in the sentence, we are erroneously implying that the agreement is still valid today.

What if the sentence said, "A 1472 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes."

Would it still be correct to change it to, "A 1472 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump into the Great Lakes."

The first example seems so much better!!!! Help!

[eyunni]

bump..

Instructors, any comments on the better choice between (A) and (D)?

[eyunni]

Instructors, Could you please comment on this?

[RonPurewal]

a poster had the right idea here.

[vikram4689]

This question has been discussed many times but, still, understanding it is pain for many students, including me. Most students choose "A" thinking that "1972 agreement reduced the amount that municipalities were allowed to dump before 1972". E.g. before 1972, municipalities were allowed to dump 10 tonnes per day but after 1972 municipalities were allowed to dump 8 tonnes per day. I think one way to understand it forever would be ask "how would one write the sentence that actually describes the meaning in BOLD and then see the difference between that sentence and correct answer.

Experts can you please help in writing the sentence that actually describes the meaning in BOLD

[jlucero]

This question has been discussed many times but, still, understanding it is pain for many students, including me. Most students choose "A" thinking that "1972 agreement reduced the amount that municipalities were allowed to dump before 1972". E.g. before 1972, municipalities were allowed to dump 10 tonnes per day but after 1972 municipalities were allowed to dump 8 tonnes per day. I think one way to understand it forever would be ask "how would one write the sentence that actually describes the meaning in BOLD and then see the difference between that sentence and correct answer.

Experts can you please help in writing the sentence that actually describes the meaning in BOLD

That's the difference between A (wrong) and D (correct), so I can't really write another sentence other than A & D. Here's a parallel example which might help to shed some light on the issue:

(A) In 2010, I decided to reduce the number of calories that I had eaten. (prior to 2010??? How can I retroactively do this?)

(D) In 2010, I decided to reduce the number of calories that I ate. (from that point forward)

[vikram4689]

(D) In 2010, I decided to reduce the number of calories that I ate. (from that point forward)

i don't have problem with actual D) but i think what you wrote is not similar to actual D) because your sentence somehow implies that you stopped taking in reduced no. of calories. In fact, following sentence would be similar "In 2010, I decided to reduce the number of calories that I EAT" as it shows you still take reduced no. of calories. This is similar to "are allowed" in actual D). Do you think i am correct

Now onto actual A), it says "had been allowed" not "had been dumped". If A) said that "agreement reduced the amount that had been DUMPED by municipalities" then i agree that it is wrong because amount dumped before agreement came into effect cannot be reduced. But, A) says "had been allowed" so doesn't it mean that whatever was allowed earlier changed after the agreement. E.g. before 1972, municipalities had been allowed to dump 10 tonnes per day but after 1972 municipalities were allowed to dump 8 tonnes per day.

[tim]

no, you are not correct about D. you have just applied an incorrect interpretation to what Joe said..

as for A, in the same sense that you cannot go back in time and change how much was dumped, you cannot go back in time and change how much was allowed. you can only change how much was allowed from that point forward..

[vikram4689]

no, you are not correct about D. you have just applied an incorrect interpretation to what Joe said..

please explain how following 2 differ in meaning:

"In 2010, I decided to reduce the number of calories that I EAT"
"In 2010, I decided to reduce the number of calories that I ATE"

[tim]

there is not enough difference between these to be worth bothering with on the GMAT. they almost certainly won't test on a difference this subtle..

[vikram4689]

Here's an anlogy from Ron's video (18 Nov 2010, 59th min). a) means river is not full of pollution at this time & b) means river is still full of pollution. please explain the discrepancy
a) In 1987, Smith discovered that River xyz WAS full of pollution
b) In 1987, Smith discovered that River xyz IS full of pollution

[tim]

what discrepancy is there to explain? you seem to have done a fine job of describing the difference in your post. i don't think nothing more needs to be added to your description..

[vikram4689]

sir,
you said that my reasoning in post73440.html#p73440 is incorrect i.e. you said following sentences does not adhere to the meaning i mentioned.
"In 2010, I decided to reduce the number of calories that I EAT"
"In 2010, I decided to reduce the number of calories that I ATE"

However, we see that ron provides the same reasoning for the below sentences.
a) In 1987, Smith discovered that River xyz WAS full of pollution
b) In 1987, Smith discovered that River xyz IS full of pollution

hence, i requested you to explain the discrepancy as my and ron's logic is same. i hope i have conveyed my intentions well.

[tim]

we need to refocus this discussion. the most important thing i've said in this thread is that the distinction you are trying to make is too trivial for the GMAT to test you on. you need to internalize this truth in order to prevent yourself from wasting further time on something that is irrelevant..

[tinyturtle08]

HI Everyone,

Please help me explain "the amount of phosphates"?

For me, "phosphates" is plural count noun. How can we use "the amount" here? Should we replace "the amount" by "the number"?

Thank you in advance!