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Sage Pearce-Higgins
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States...

by Sage Pearce-Higgins Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:26 am

Potentially we could spend a long time trying to justify every correct answer; it's possible to go and study English grammar for many years. I encourage you to compare the possible answer choices and work from there.

In this case, none of the other verbs given satisfies the sentence: 'had been', etc. Probably, part of you wants to suggest that it could be 'were allowed to dump'. I agree, that could work here, but it's not given!

That said, there's a difference in meaning. Consider the following (correct) sentences:

When I was 10, my parents changed the time I go to bed.
When I was 10, my parents changed the time I went to bed.
JbhB682
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States...

by JbhB682 Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:37 pm

Hi Experts - I see the way to get rid of A is to focus on the blue underline in the below sentence.

The past perfect implies an action completed before another past action.

Is the before always true in every usage of past perfect ? If so, this is news to me

My understanding of past perfect was the past perfect verb has started before another verb -- but it is news to me the verb (indicated as past perfect) has to be completed as well before the the other verb in the past tense commences

Example
--By Jan 1st 1945, USA had been at war for 3 years.

I thought the war was still ongoing as of Jan 1st 1945 (the war was not over as of Jan 1st 1945)

Thoughts ?
esledge
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States...

by esledge Sun May 02, 2021 6:28 pm

JbhB682 Wrote:Hi Experts - I see the way to get rid of A is to focus on the blue underline in the below sentence.

The past perfect implies an action completed before another past action.

Is the before always true in every usage of past perfect ? If so, this is news to me
Yes, this is true.

JbhB682 Wrote:My understanding of past perfect was the past perfect verb has started before another verb -- but it is news to me the verb (indicated as past perfect) has to be completed as well before the the other verb in the past tense commences

Example
--By Jan 1st 1945, USA had been at war for 3 years.

I thought the war was still ongoing as of Jan 1st 1945 (the war was not over as of Jan 1st 1945)

Thoughts ?
Yes, the whole war was still ongoing, but this sentence correctly says that the "3 years" (so far) period that "USA had been at war" was completed by Jan 1st 1945.
Emily Sledge
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JbhB682
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States...

by JbhB682 Mon May 10, 2021 1:14 pm

Hi experts - would like to clarify with the help of some numbers as I am not clear on one aspect regarding option A and option D
Context : Let's say :

1) Upper limit allowed to be dumped into the Great Lakes in 1970 (2 years prior to the 1972 agreement) -- 30 liters
2) Actual amount dumped into the Great Lakes in 1970 (2 years prior to the 1972 agreement) -- 25 liters.


3) Upper limit allowed to be dumped into the Great Lakes JUST PRIOR to 1972 agreement -- 20 liters
4) Actual amount dumped into the Great Lakes PRIOR JUST PRIOR to the 1972 agreement -- 15 liters


5) Upper limit allowed to be dumped into the Great Lakes AFTER the 1972 agreement -- 12 liters
6) Actual amount dumped into the Great Lakes AFTER the 1972 agreement -- 10 liters





Regarding option A specifically
i) is option A referring to the UPPER limit in 1970 ? This upper limit is NO LONGER the upper limit as of just prior to the signing of the 1972 agreement .. This seems to me the implication of "HAD BEEN"

[in my example, option A is referring to 30 liters, which is the upper limit in 1970 but no longer the upper limit as of just prior to the signing of the 1972 agreement]

Regarding option D specifically
i) is option D referring to the UPPER limit which is true JUST PRIOR to the signing of the 1972 agreement ? [in myexample, it is 20 liters] ?
esledge
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States...

by esledge Thu May 13, 2021 3:54 pm

JbhB682 Wrote:Hi experts - would like to clarify with the help of some numbers as I am not clear on one aspect regarding option A and option D
Context : Let's say :

1) Upper limit allowed to be dumped into the Great Lakes in 1970 (2 years prior to the 1972 agreement) -- 30 liters
2) Actual amount dumped into the Great Lakes in 1970 (2 years prior to the 1972 agreement) -- 25 liters.


3) Upper limit allowed to be dumped into the Great Lakes JUST PRIOR to 1972 agreement -- 20 liters
4) Actual amount dumped into the Great Lakes PRIOR JUST PRIOR to the 1972 agreement -- 15 liters


5) Upper limit allowed to be dumped into the Great Lakes AFTER the 1972 agreement -- 12 liters
6) Actual amount dumped into the Great Lakes AFTER the 1972 agreement -- 10 liters





Regarding option A specifically
i) is option A referring to the UPPER limit in 1970 ? This upper limit is NO LONGER the upper limit as of just prior to the signing of the 1972 agreement .. This seems to me the implication of "HAD BEEN"

[in my example, option A is referring to 30 liters, which is the upper limit in 1970 but no longer the upper limit as of just prior to the signing of the 1972 agreement]

I think you are jumping through hoops to find a way that option (A) could make sense, but the fact that you must do so indicates that this answer is just wrong. There is nothing in this sentence that adequately explains that there were two changes (one immediately before 1972 and one that applied after 1972), and the idea of a short retroactive policy change just doesn't make sense. The government can't legislate the past; the 1972 agreement couldn't say "recently, you had been allowed to dump X amount into the Great Lakes, but we just didn't tell you until now."

JbhB682 Wrote:Regarding option D specifically
i) is option D referring to the UPPER limit which is true JUST PRIOR to the signing of the 1972 agreement ? [in myexample, it is 20 liters] ?
Based on the information give, there is only before and after 1972. There is not enough information given to think that we need to keep track of all these various times: a long time before, a short time before, and after.

Before 1972, the rules were whatever they were (unspecified by this sentence).
In 1972, new rules were made, so from then on, a lower amount of phosphates could be dumped in the Great Lakes, compared to the situation before.
Emily Sledge
Instructor
ManhattanGMAT