A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States...

[RonPurewal]

Yes.

[thanghnvn]

[quote="Guest"](GMAT Prep Exam)

A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities


I used to hate this question but now I see the question is nice after reading the grammar book

though we feel this question hard, gmat has right to test this sc because this kind of question is used in writing much.

in writing, we need to make time order of actions in a complex sentence; we need to make clear which action come first. The need dose exist when we write the english text.

this sc test our skill to make the time order of actions. sequence of tenses is discussed a lot in grammar books. we can not remember which tense can go with which tenses because this is too complex to remember.

However, there is something basic we can remember easily

if the verb in the main clause is in one of the past tenses, the past perfect and future in the past in subordinate clauses shows the action precedeing and following the main verb's action.

if the verb in the main clause is in present, the future tense in subordinate clause shows the following action and the past tense, past perfect tense and present perfect show the actions preceding the main verb' action.

if the main verb is in the past, the verb in attributive and adverbial clauses can be any tense to convey intended meaning

above rule is very easy to remember and effective to make order of action.

in the test room, we can not realize the logic that "reduced" in D, the OA , can go with "are allow" even if you know in advance that past tense in main clause can go with present tense in attributive clause. However, we can go to the correct answer if we focus on the time order in which actions happen.

in choice A and B, "had done" show the preceding action, so, "reduced" is incorrect. a following action can not affect the preceding action.

similarly,in C present perfect show a preceding action if the main clause is in present tense. "reduces" can not affect "have been".

choice E is incorrect because "for dumping" is not idiomatic in the pattern of choice E.

only if we have an time order of actions in mind, we can solve this sc problem.

very hard one but very basic thing which we need for our daily writing in B school.

[tim]

I can't tell whether you have a question here or you're just collecting your thoughts publicly. If you actually have a question, let us know so we can help you.

[sulabhs63]

though the agreement is in the past but it may still reduce the amount of phosphates ? then we should instead have reduces rather than reduced ?

even after reading the entire discussion above i am not convinced why we are using reduced and why cant we use reduces ????



"Reduce" is not an ongoing state of existence. It's something that happens at one particular point in time.
That point in time was in 1972. So, past tense.

this was the explanation offered at many places but my concern is we are not using reduce , the verb is reduces i.e it sounds like a general rule in the present tense basically an agreement in the past reduces the amount of phosphates the municipalities are allowed to dump today.


because when we say reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump it means the agreement reduced in the past , what ???? the answer would be a similar kind of amount as today i.e the amount produced in the past analogous to the amounts produced today .

but then what is wrong in saying that the agreement reduces the amount produced today ????/

[RonPurewal]

'reduced' = 'lowered' / 'brought down'

this is something that happened at one specific time in history.
before 1972, the level was X.
at some point in 1972—whenever the agreement went into effect—the level was lowered to Y, and it has stayed at Y ever since.

the level was lowered / was reduced / decreased / was brought down at a single point in time. so, past tense.

[sulabhs63]

thanx ron

[RonPurewal]

you're welcome.

[ToanD19]

'reduced' = 'lowered' / 'brought down'

this is something that happened at one specific time in history.
before 1972, the level was X.
at some point in 1972—whenever the agreement went into effect—the level was lowered to Y, and it has stayed at Y ever since.

the level was lowered / was reduced / decreased / was brought down at a single point in time. so, past tense.

Hi Ron, you lost me at this.
so at some point in 1972, the level (X) was lowered to (Y) --> we reduced X (to Y)
- shouldn't it be "reduced the amount that had been allowed before 1972?" - please let me know where I was wrong.

[RonPurewal]

^^ no, because "the amount they HAD been allowed to dump" refers only to the OLD value.
...so, that's logically impossible. (it's like saying that yesterday's musical performance became worse because of something that happened today.)

the rest of this is already discussed in the thread; please read the ENTIRE discussion thread before posting any further questions. thank you.

[AnooshehK513]

Dear Tim,

I love your video explanations. I think they are the best among all that I have seen in GMAT classes. Thank you.
I have two questions:
1. Amount of Phosphates! Amount is used for uncountable nouns and "phosphates" is plural here specially considering that we have in other options "Phosphate Amount". I am so confused over this matter! Can you help me. I actually took out choices based on the fact that Amount of Phosphates is Wrong and Amount of Phosphate is correct.

2. why what was allowed cannot be altered? I have seen in many contexts that what was allowed once is no longer allowed.

no, you are not correct about D. you have just applied an incorrect interpretation to what Joe said..

as for A, in the same sense that you cannot go back in time and change how much was dumped, you cannot go back in time and change how much was allowed. you can only change how much was allowed from that point forward..

[AnooshehK513]

Dear Tim,

Thank you.
Could you kindly also comment on the "Amount of Phosphates"
How is that correct if Phosphates is plural and countable?


sincerely,

Anoosheh

Dear Tim,

I love your video explanations. I think they are the best among all that I have seen in GMAT classes. Thank you.
I have two questions:
1. Amount of Phosphates! Amount is used for uncountable nouns and "phosphates" is plural here specially considering that we have in other options "Phosphate Amount". I am so confused over this matter! Can you help me. I actually took out choices based on the fact that Amount of Phosphates is Wrong and Amount of Phosphate is correct.

2. why what was allowed cannot be altered? I have seen in many contexts that what was allowed once is no longer allowed.

no, you are not correct about D. you have just applied an incorrect interpretation to what Joe said..

as for A, in the same sense that you cannot go back in time and change how much was dumped, you cannot go back in time and change how much was allowed. you can only change how much was allowed from that point forward..

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

I assume that you've read the part in the SC strategy guide about Quantity (chapter 4). This covers the simple points, although there are some twists.

Some apparently plural nouns are actually uncountable: groceries, goods, and clothes are some more examples. Phosphates is another, as it refers to a group of chemicals.

However, it's much easier to check the meaning. In this context it would be silly to say that municipalities can dump, say, three phosphates in the Great Lakes. Clearly it's talking about a volume - gallons etc. - which is an amount, not a number.

[sg2010]

Hello. I followed the GMAT interact line of reasoning on this, and I still do not understand the explanation.

Why is D correct?

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

Please be more specific with your question: which part of the answer are you referring to? Also, your question suggests that you're looking at things the wrong way round. Try to find reasons to eliminate other answer choices - can you do that?

[Crisc419]

I understand we cannot change the things that happened in the past. But i still do not understand

why the sentence use "are "

D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump

Please help me

Thanks in advance.