680 to 650

[markwasif]

Hello,

I took my 2nd attempt at the GMAT on Saturday. An unbearable 650. (Q44 V35)

My first attempt a month ago - 680 (q44 V 39)

GMAT Prep 1 640 (q43 v37) (Before opening a book or knowing much about the gmat - that's when I decided that getting a 700 was definitely within range)
Manhattan GMAT #1 600 (Q33 V 39)
GMAT Prep 2 680

Total Prep time : 6 weeks.


After getting a 680 on the real deal, I began to analyze my strengths and weaknesses. I found that my weakness in the Quant section was number properties. Seeing as though these types of questions were quite abundant on the exam, I hit them hard and mastered them. I also found out that I was quite good at word translations in general, and more specifically rates and work type of problems.

As for verbal, If I had to pick a weakness it would be Reading comprehension and only because I feel that I sometimes doze off - not because I'm finding the material hard to comprehend or anything of that sort. My strength was definitely SC.

I re-did all the 12th edition official questions again. I kept an error log.
After getting comfortable the 12th edition questions I bought the 1st and 2nd edition quant guides and did those as well. Found them to be slightly easier than the 12th edition.

Between my first and second attempt I took the following tests in order:

GMAT Prep 1 repeat - 750 (Q45 V48) (there were 4 verbal repeats that I recognized. I let the clock run, however)
Manhattan GMAT #2 700 (q47 v39)
Manhattan GMAT #3 700 (q46 v40)
GMAT Prep 2 repeat - 710 Q47 v40 (there were 3 verbal repeats and I intentionally marked them incorrectly after assuming my verbal score on the GMATprep1 retake was inflated)
Manhattan GMAT #4 720 (q46 v42)

After this round of prep, I was comfortable that I was in the 700-730 range.

The question I now ask myself is whether it's worth another shot. If I do decide to re-take, I have to do it next month. (I'm applying for fall 2010).

Any advice would greatly be appreciated.

M.

[StaceyKoprince]

Did you take your practice tests under full official conditions? (30m each for two essays, 8m break, 75m quant, 8m break, 75m verbal, NO use of the pause button on the MGMAT tests, nothing to eat or drink except during the breaks, etc)

If you did not mimic the official test conditions, then your practice test scores may have been inflated - anywhere from a little to a lot, depending upon the specific deviations from official conditions. (eg, consistently skipping the essays on practice tests is typically a significant advantage in terms of score; on the other hand, taking a 12 minute break instead of an 8 minute break once or twice wouldn't produce much of an inflation.)

This wouldn't be good news, but you should know if had some score inflation going on, because it means that you weren't actually as prepared as you thought you were - and that could factor into your decision for a re-take, obviously.

Did you take one of our courses? If you did take the course or one of our Guided Self-Study packages, then you're eligible for a free Post-Exam Assessment. This is a phone call with an instructor to figure out what went wrong and come up with a plan to re-take the test (or even just to get advice as to whether you should re-take). If this applies to you, please send an email to studentservices@manhattangmat.com and request the Post-Exam Assessment.

One thing I'm noticing is that your quant score didn't change much in comparison to your practice tests, but your verbal score really dropped on the second test. I'm wondering whether you were not as well prepared as you might have been for the stamina aspect. eg, maybe you didn't take the essays on practice tests. If so, you wouldn't necessarily feel physically tired during the last hour - the adrenaline will make you feel like you have plenty of energy - but you would have been mentally fatigued because you would have been used to being done with the test an hour earlier. Do you think anything like that was going on?

[markwasif]

Hello Stacey,

As far as the practice test under full conditions thing, I did that for most of the tests especially the ones towards the end. For some of the earlier ones I used to take 10 minute breaks until I found about the 8 min thing. Never used the pause button or anything of that sort. My actual tests were at 12 pm but when I took the tests at home I'd usually start by 2 or 3 pm. I honestly didn't think that would make any difference at all.

I think I'm just not performing on actual test day because of some messed up wiring in my head that diverts my attention from the question on the screen to everything else - scores, 690 would annoy me, 700 is the minimum I'd accept, this is my second attempt etc. These were actually some of the things racing through my head at 1000 thoughts per second.

Oh, by the way, for my first attempt I was actually quite sick and had only an hour of sleep - This time I was healthy and had 6 hours of sleep - Yet another reason to compound to my annoyance about this attempt.

If indeed it is a psychological thing, I wouldn't know where to go from here.

Any ideas to confirm if this is the problem and not a lack of knowledge/skills?

Would it help to just take another practice test to confirm that I know the material?

Thank you very much for your quick reply by the way.

[StaceyKoprince]

My actual tests were at 12 pm but when I took the tests at home I'd usually start by 2 or 3 pm. I honestly didn't think that would make any difference at all.

Most of the time, I think you're right (that it wouldn't make much of a difference), but the one thing I'm thinking about is the possibility of a natural lull in your biorhythm. We all have certain patterns of times throughout the day when we're more alert vs less alert. For a 12p start, you'd hit the verbal around 2:30. If that's your "lull" time, then that could affect you. You might not have noticed on practice tests, because those were the essays - and those weren't getting scored. (Also, there's obviously a difference between hitting your "lull" time at the start of the test, when you have more adrenaline, vs. 2/3 of the way through the test, when you're more fatigued.)

I don't know that this was what happened - I'm just exploring possibilities. If this might have been going on, then you'd want to take future practice tests at the same time of day and you'd also want to experiment with different foods and drinks in order to make sure you're as alert as possible during the entire test.

The nerves / racing thoughts stuff could definitely be another factor, especially if you've experienced similar things during past high-pressures tests or situations. Is this new or have you experienced this before? Did it have a noticeable effect on any other big tests you took in the past?

Here are some articles about stress management:

http://www.manhattangmat.com/stress-tips.cfm
http://www.manhattangmat.com/strategy-series-stress.cfm

When I find myself distracted by non-helpful thoughts during the test, I tell myself: okay, you can think about that all you want, as soon as you finish this question. So I don't tell myself "stop thinking about that!" because, of course, then it's impossible to stop thinking about that. I give myself permission to think about it - but in a few minutes. And if I'm still thinking about it on the next problem, I just tell myself the same thing - I can think about it after I've finished this problem. Eventually, you'll either forget (for some period of time, anyway), or the test will end, and then you really can sit there and think about it. :)

The good news is that you do have that 680 score locked in - and that's a very good score. I know you want the 700, but 680 is not very different, even though it feels that way because the starting number is different. If you do take it again, make sure you really understand / believe this. Sure, a 700 would be nice, but a 680 isn't going to break your application, so when you're taking it again, your mindset should be, "If I get a 700, that's a bonus, but I'm still okay even if I don't." If you really believe that (and you should - it's true), then you won't have quite as much pressure on test day.

[markwasif]

The nerves / racing thoughts stuff could definitely be another factor, especially if you've experienced similar things during past high-pressures tests or situations. Is this new or have you experienced this before? Did it have a noticeable effect on any other big tests you took in the past?

It's never been a problem in the past. But I've never cared about a test before as much as I do about this one. I'm basically at the stage where I feel I can do much better than a 680. My quant score on both real attempts was lower than on the MGMAT even though I found the MGMAT quant more difficult. This is perhaps another reason why I think test day jitters might be the culprit of my test day scores being lower, since, from what I've read around, MGMAT scores tend to be good indicators. I'm wondering what the best course of action would be concerning the retake. If I do retake it would have to be within a few weeks. I would also be retaking without much more preparation as I'lll be devoting most of my time to the rest of my application.

I guess what I'm really looking for is a tool of some sort to assess where I really stand and whether I can get the 700 at my current level of preparation. Since I've taken the GMATprep tests twice each, I was wondering if taking MGMAT tests # 5 and 6 and coming to a decision for the retake based on those scores is a good idea.

[StaceyKoprince]

Tests 5 and 6 will still be "clean" tests, so yes, they should be a good indicator of your current scoring level, though you should know that the standard deviation is about 50 points - so, if you score a 700 on an MGMAT test, then your "current scoring range" is somewhere between 650 and 750. Standardized tests, unfortunately, are not as precise as we would all like to think (that includes the real test).

The key thing, as always, is to make sure you take the entire thing under exact official test conditions.

You'd also want to do something about the nerves issue - hopefully those articles I linked last time will be of some help.

For most schools, there really isn't a downside to taking it a third time. Most schools will look only at your highest score, and most don't care if you take it up to three times. (Though you'd want to check - if you're applying to a school that averages all of your scores, for example, then that may change your decision-making process.)

[markwasif]

Hello Stacey,

Just a quick update:

I distanced myself from the gmat almost completely since my last real test (Oct 31st) save for an occasional batch of 10 quant questions on random days when I felt like it.

Today, I decided to take MGMAT # 5 under full test conditions again. The result was a 720 (q43 v45).

Some observations:

- I found the quant section to be considerably more difficult than on previous tests. I'm not sure whether this a result of my lack of practice since my real exam or whether the exam is actually more difficult than previous practice CATs. I felt that I needed a lot longer than 2 mins on many of the questions.

- Looking through the verbal problem list, I found significantly fewer 700 level questions on this test as compared to previous tests. I didn't feel that the verbal questions were necessarily easier but I could be wrong since I've never studied much for verbal anyway so it's hard to tell.

Some questions:

- are the difficulty levels of different MGMAT exams that different? For eg. Should my higher verbal score be interpreted as a result of the fewer number of 700 level questions?

-Given what you know so far, and with the latest MGMAT score, do you think that my modest goal of 700 on the real test is achievable if I choose to taken it within the next couple of weeks or so?


Lastly, I would like to thank you again.
Your posts have been very helpful. I've learnt quite a bit not just from your replies to my posts, but also from your replies to everyone else's.

So, once again, a big thank you.

[StaceyKoprince]

I found the quant section to be considerably more difficult than on previous tests. I'm not sure whether this a result of my lack of practice since my real exam or whether the exam is actually more difficult than previous practice CATs.

We haven't changed anything with the test in that time (nothing that would make it more difficult, anyway)...

I felt that I needed a lot longer than 2 mins on many of the questions.

If you're doing well on a test, then you should feel that way (because it means you're being offered hard questions) - and then you should ignore that feeling of wanting to spend all that extra time, do what you can in 2m and move on. :)

Looking through the verbal problem list, I found significantly fewer 700 level questions on this test as compared to previous tests.

Hmm. You scored in the 99th percentile in verbal on this last test, and you were scoring in the 90th to 95th percentiles on multiple earlier practice tests. It's possible that you actually exhausted the pool of 700+ questions (and the test isn't allowed to give repeats until you hit test #7). This can happen before the end of the test set (6 tests) for people who are very high scorers.

Take a look at the problem list. Is there a point at which you simply never get any more 700+ questions, even though you're getting a lot right? Or do you have some 700+ questions all the way to the end? If the problem list "hits the wall" at some point, then you just tapped out all of the 700+ questions.

If that's the case, I'd assume your verbal score is still roughly in the 90th to 95th percentile range (just to play it safe). Not the answer you were hoping to hear, I'm sure, but I think it's important to underestimate, not overestimate. If we say that your score was q43 v40, that'd be about a 680 or 690 (I'm guessing here - I don't know exactly). So you're in that 700 range, yes, but you're still hovering around the same level as last time.

Generally speaking, the real test has a standard deviation of about 30 points, so it's not just possible but wouldn't even be considered surprising for you to be able to hit a 700 if you take it again soon. By the same logic, though, it would also not be surprising to get a 660, as that's also within the standard deviation.

So I think you're just going to have to make a decision here; there isn't a clear-cut answer. Let me ask you some questions. How will you feel if:
- you take it again and get the 700
- you take it again and don't get the 700 but score the same as or better than last time
- you take it again and score less than last time
- you don't take it again and never know whether you could have gotten a better score

First, MAKE SURE that none of the schools to which you're planning to apply average your GMAT scores if you have multiple tests. (Very few schools do this anymore, but you just want to make sure - no point in shooting yourself in the foot!)

If you think you would shrug it off if you take it again and get a lower score, then there's not much to lose (as long as the schools will only consider your highest score). If, on the other hand, you think getting a lower score would cause you to obsess or otherwise negatively impact you in a way that might affect your application prep, then you should think carefully about whether you want to take that risk.

[markwasif]

I just took a look at the verbal problem list and question 29 onwards are at the 600-700 level. So I guess my score is indeed inflated. Bummer.

How will you feel if:
- you take it again and get the 700
- you take it again and don't get the 700 but score the same as or better than last time
- you take it again and score less than last time
- you don't take it again and never know whether you could have gotten a better score

-If I do get the 700 I'd be incredibly happy.
-If I score 690 I'd be slightly happy but i'm sure i'd be a little disappointed as well because I set a goal for myself and would've loved to realize it. But if I score better than the 650 but less than my 680 I'd be really annoyed because I'm assuming that the 650 was just a bad day. It was pretty much where I started before my prep. I'd eventually get over it I'm sure.
-If I don't take it again I'd probably feel a mixture of curiosity and maybe some relief that its something I don't need to think about anymore. But I know the curiosity part will itch at me for a while.

First, MAKE SURE that none of the schools to which you're planning to apply average your GMAT scores if you have multiple tests. (Very few schools do this anymore, but you just want to make sure - no point in shooting yourself in the foot!

So far I've sent the 680 score report to only some schools. After my 2nd attempt, I sent it to a different set of schools (a couple of safety schools). Can't I make the financially unsound decision of not sending them again and only sending them if my score is better than the 680? All the schools I'm applying to take the highest score so if I don't take it again am I supposed to send the second report (with the 650) as well even though they take the highest score?

[StaceyKoprince]

Nothing is actually physically "sent" to the schools. Rather, they are given access to your record in an online database. Schools typically will not check your record until they are reviewing your application (after you've submitted it, obviously), so the schools will see everything on your record at the point at which they check the database.

You (obviously!) have to give a school access to your record at some point or the school won't process your application. It doesn't matter whether you give them that access now or two months ago or two months from now (as long as you give them access by the application deadline date!).

In other words, all the schools to which you've already given access will see all of your scores, and if you take it again, you might as well give any additional schools access for free before you see your scores rather than pay to do so after you see your scores. Either way, they'll see the full record.

[cyber_office]

Stacey,

If I authorize a school to access my GMAT records, will it also be able to see whether I signed up for the GMAT but cancelled (no show) before the test? Or does the score report history only include information about tests actually taken and tests actually taken with scores cancelled?

Thanks much.

[StaceyKoprince]

If you rescheduled before the scheduled test date (that is, did not show up at the center for the test), then nothing will be on your record. If you show up at the test center and start the process but don't finish or cancel at the end, then that will show on your record.

[cyber_office]

Thanks!!!

[StaceyKoprince]

you're welcome!