610 - Need a Retake Strategy

[rohan.nanda]

Hello Stacey,

Sorry for posting in that thread: 2-weeks-until-exam-advice-really-needed-t16248.html

I didn't want to open another thread, that's all :)

The good news is I didn't take the test. I'll jog your memory. I took the GMAT on Tuesday, the 14th. Bad news is I got a 610(Q:47;V:27).

The following is a list of tests that I took before the exam with the break-ups:

NAME SCORE VERBAL MATH
PrinceDIAG 410 9 38
Princeton 690 39 46
Princeton 590 28 43
GMATPrep 550 30 36
Princeton 650 35 45
Princeton 640 29 49
GMATPrep 610 28 46
GMATPrep 710 41 47
ManhattanPrep 630 31 46

(sorry for the formatting, the forum editor automatically takes out all extra spaces)

I would like to think that I was surprised after seeing my real score. But the fact of the matter is, that's exactly where I stood. I was apprehensive about Quant because I suck at DS(number properties and stats specifically - and that's exactly what came), but I did surprisingly OK in it. Verbal was a super disappointment though, I expected at least somewhere in the early 30's.

Stacey, in my report, will I get a detailed break-up of which questions I went wrong on? Or is it just going to be my scores. If it's the latter, I don't exactly know where I went wrong. I know that the SC was harder than usual, but I'm good at it. I think it was the CR / RC that brought me down. I'm unsure about my performance on the CR Q's and I remember not reading the third passage and guessing on the Q's, which prolly brought my score down. I did so to pace out and complete the section on time. Verbal is such a challenge for me because of CR. I can't seem to push my accuracy in it beyond 50%.

But I made my peace with it and I went for the exam. Usually if I get the drift of a CR question, I get it right. But on some, I just fail to comprehend the Q in such less time, so I immediately identify it as hard and move on. But I don't really know which ones I got right.

On RC's I skim quickly and then look at the passage in detail every time I attack the questions. But is this a good strategy? A lot of people try to read the passage slowly instead and it increases their hit percentage too.

I am not applying this year, and I have a lot of time to take the exam once more. I forgot about the exam on the day and watched The Dark Knight Rises at night to get my mind off things(boy, what a movie it is). What I want from you, Stacey, is guidance on a retake strategy.

What should I do different this time, besides practicing RC's every day and working on my CR weaknesses?
Should I relax for some time before jumping into the prep again? If so, for how long?(I'm teaching my sister at the moment so I do exercise my mind still, do you advise that I don't think about it for some time?)

My target is early 700's. Please tell me what information you require on my performance on the mocks, so you are in a better position to advise me.

And thank you so much for having the patience to read so many stories every day. You're my hero :) (and Ron too, he's got so much interesting trivia on the GMAT)

[StaceyKoprince]

Thanks, Rohan - it's just easier to keep each person's "story" separate. Then I know that I have all of the correct details when advising anyone!

in my report, will I get a detailed break-up of which questions I went wrong on?

No, the official score report will contain only your scores. You'll have to try to assess where you think you went wrong by looking at the data from your most recent practice tests.

For RC, this is the general reading strategy that I recommend:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... p-passage/

It's sort of a cross between simming and reading carefully - you do read everything, but you concentrate more on certain types of information (high level), and skim other types (detail).

Re: studying and taking breaks in a way that maximizes your efficiency, read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... abilities/

Next, use the below to analyze your most recent MGMAT CAT(s):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Then come back here and tell us the results of your analysis and what you think you should do based on that analysis. (Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!) And then I'll tell you where I agree and disagree. :)

[rohan.nanda]

Stacy,

After a week of analyzing and pondering over, i've collated all my strengths and weakness and I have a plan. I'm going to
follow what you wrote on how to analyze every practice problem. I've booked a date on the 23rd of October.
I need a couple of pointers from you:

1. How often should I take practice tests? I have a timing problem but I think I've improved it alot(in math but not in verbal) so
now it's more about improving my accuracy. So there's no point taking tests and diving into questions bullishly
until I'm confident enough that I've increased my accuracy in the RC's and CR's (the problem areas). Between now and
my scheduled date, how many should I take and how often? and which ones? MGMAT or GMATPrep(retake because I've used up
2 already)

2. It's common sense to complete a comprehensive review of everything before a CAT. Is there anything else you'd advise
me to do?

3. What's the pacing I should follow in the exam? The folks at Princeton taught us this, but i don't know if it's working
in my favour:

MATH
First 10 Q's: 25 mins
Next 10 Q's : 20 mins
Next 10 Q's : 20 mins
Next 7 Q's: 10 mins

VERBAL
First 10 Q's; 25 mins
Next 10 Q's: 20 mins
Next 10 Q's: 15 mins
Next 11 Q's: 15 mins

I followed this on the real GMAT as well.

4. I need a serious "re-understanding" of CR and RC. Are the MGMAT guides good enough to bring my accuracy from a 27 to
atleast a 35-36? Can you vouch for their teaching strategies?

5. How much time should I spend per day on my preparation? You say 2 hours are more than enough in a day. But here's my schedule:

I get up at 5:30...study uptil 9:30(not continuous, maybe 1 break in between)...but it involves everything from doing
problems to watching Thursdays with Ron to reading BTG / MGMAT articles. Is this not advisable?
Isn't 2 hours a day too less, also because my date is around the corner? I leave for the office and I come back at 8'ish. By then I'm so tired that I can't study more so I just watch something and sleep and repeat the cycle the next day. Are there
any adjustments in this routine you'd advise?

6. Computer Gaming apparantly improves your decision making(someone on the forum posted a link on this). I've an avid
computer gamer, but I've been avoiding it since the GMAT prep started. You think it's a good idea to get into it every
once in a while? I read the article on brain fatigue, that one should avoid making decisions in breaks. But you think
this could have a positive effect on my mind?

7. Any other tips you can give me on the retake. :)

Thank you so much !

[StaceyKoprince]

1. How often should I take practice tests?

When you feel that you have made substantial progress* on at least several of the major weaknesses that you identified on the last test you took.

*You'll have to decide what you think substantial progress is - but you should feel like you have learned enough that you will see a real difference on the next test. This might take 1 week or 3, just depends. But don't bother to take another test before you think you've made some decent progress or you're just going to get the same data on strengths and weaknesses that you got last time!

If you've already used both GMATPreps, leave them alone for now. Maybe later you can take them again after you've forgotten the questions.

2. It's common sense to complete a comprehensive review of everything before a CAT. Is there anything else you'd advise
me to do?

I would NOT actually recommend a truly comprehensive review before each CAT. A comprehensive review is a 2+ week process. You'd never get anything done. :)

A high-level review for a day or two, that's fine. But mostly I'd say: know what you're aiming to improve for this next CAT, know what your goals are. "I want to balance my timing well, spending no more than 2.5m on any quant question, and I want to have better accuracy across all CR Q types." (Because those were the things on which I concentrated the most since the last test.)

Then, I'd review those specific things before the next CAT - but not a truly comprehensive review of everything.

3. What's the pacing I should follow in the exam?

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... to-win-it/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... nt-part-1/

Do NOT use the pacing that you were given by that other company. That's truly terrible pacing.

4. Are the MGMAT guides good enough to bring my accuracy from a 27 to at least a 35-36? Can you vouch for their teaching strategies?

Not only do I work for the company but I wrote the most recent version of the CR guide, so I'm seriously biased. :) Of course I like our stuff; you'll have to see whether you like it too. You can ask other students what they've liked; you can also go to a bookstore that carries the books and browse for a bit before you decide whether to buy.

Re: your other question, our guides are good enough to get people scoring 700 and 750 - we do have students who hit even the 99th percentile. Not everybody does, of course, and there's no guarantee that simply having or studying from a certain book will get you a certain score. The biggest variable is you, the student - how well you study is the determining factor. :)

5. How much time should I spend per day on my preparation?

Studying before work is good, and doing a mix of activities is great. You can study more than 2 hours in a day, but I recommend a substantial break if you do. If you haven't already, read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... abilities/
(I linked to this same article in my last post to you.)

6. Computer Gaming

I think it's a good idea in general to be doing a mix of your normal activities and not doing only GMAT prep all the time. Your brain will get tired of it - it needs to have other things to do / think about. So please do pick up your gaming again. :)

7. Any other tips you can give me on the retake.

The two biggest things that people mess up:
1. timing
2. HOW they study / learn

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... an-part-1/

In particular, read the "How to Study" section (which I think is in the 2nd part of the article).

[rohan.nanda]

"...that other company" Haahahh :D..

That''s why you guys need to get here faast !! :)

You know I blame that pacing to a great extent for my low score, now that I come to think of it. I read through all the articles and I've benchmarked the time wrt the Q No. and I've jotted down the time I should spend on each type. I'm excited about how I'll do on the next CAT.

In the mean time, I'm relearning RC and CR from the MGMAT guides. I hope this improves my score, it has a very scientific approach to RC(unpacking et al), which is what I love about MGMAT.

Thanks for your quick reply, Stacey. I'll keep you posted on my progress. :)

[StaceyKoprince]

Thanks for keeping me up to date.

That''s why you guys need to get here faast !! :)

I'm coming to Mumbai in 3 weeks! (Assuming we can sign up enough students... tell everyone you know in Mumbai! :)

[rohan.nanda]

Sure. Will do :). If you can accomodate a week long booster session of some sort in Hyderabad too, it'd be great. I know quite a few here who need serious scientific insight.

[StaceyKoprince]

Ideally, assuming things go well in Mumbai, we would add programs in other cities. We're still figuring out the market, etc.

Here's an interesting case study for you. Part of the problem is that we teach in a certain way that mimics what a lot of the Western business schools do (Socratic method) and that requires a smaller class size - which means the price has to be higher, of course. And the market in India has gotten used to packed classes with much lower prices.

We don't want to change the way we teach - we truly do think it's the best way to learn for the GMAT, plus it even preps people for b-school (in terms of getting used to the teaching style). But there's not a lot of leeway in terms of price - we're always going to be more expensive than the local competition. We have to find that sweet spot in there somewhere.

Well, we'll see what happens! If it doesn't work this time, we'll try again!

[rohan.nanda]

You're absolutely right. You have to be cost effective here. Every one only looks at the best value for money, and the problem is that quite a few(except some like myself) don't know how MGPREP is different OR some learn the hard way(after going thru a 2 month course with a prep company that puts kids in the game but doesn't tell them how to get good at it - Pr******n). But at the end of the day, they put a Rs. 22000/- price tag on it ($400), which is expensive in Indian cost standards yet at the same time, delivers a false sense of reassurance to Indian kids' parents that their will score in the 700's.

This is exactly what happened to me. I even advised my sister to go with them, until I learned about what MGMAT does and does so scientifically. Now she uses all your open source articles to get better.

Anywho, if you want a 'messenger' (if you will) to spread the message in Hyderabad about the the arrival of MGMAT and how the program is really different, I'll be happy to do it. I work at Bank of America, this is not my native place but I have quite a few friends who I can spread the word with.

Mumbai, I'm pretty sure you will get a decent turnout. Kids are more aware in that city. I'm pretty sure they know about Manhattan GMAT.

[StaceyKoprince]

Thanks for the advice and for the offer. We'll have to see how things go in Mumbai first, but I may come back for another conversation about this down the road. :)

We're pretty close to getting the enrollment that we need to run the first course, so I'm hopeful that we'll make it - although we only have 1 day left... !!!

[rohan.nanda]

Hi Stacy,

Hows the Mumbai project coming along?

I gave my GMAT today and I got a 660(Q: 46 V: 35)). I'm satisfied with that score because it puts me in the game atleast, for a MS - Management Info. Systems. I'm proud of the fact that I pushed my V from a 27 to a 35.

[rohitfolder]

Hey, Stacey
Do you have any plan for Delhi, if you have any please let me know.

[StaceyKoprince]

Nice job, Rohan! Congratulations!

The Mumbai course is coming along very well - we're about halfway through the program. We're currently in the planning stages for the next class (sometime in January or February, most likely), but it will probably be in Mumbai again, not Delhi. :(

But if we get enough requests, then we'll look into having something in Delhi. Here's what to do: send an email to studentservices@manhattangmat.com and ask them to put your name and email address on our "Delhi" list. When we have news about a program in Delhi, we'll let you know!