590 / 570?

[juanranger]

Greetings. I recently took my second MGMAT test and received a score of 570. On my initial MGMAT test I received a 590 -- roughly 1 month ago. I am currently signed up for the MGMAT spring course which starts on 3/2 and I am very excited to get started. Given my test scores, do you think it is possible to obtain a score of 680+ after taking the course and doing additional studying? I have been studying for about 2 months now and although my scores haven't drastically improved I am starting to feel more comfortable with the test. I am glad I signed up for the course because I am severely lacking in study structure at this point.

In closing, was in the 69% percentile in verbal and the 44% in math on my most recent test.

Thanks.

[RonPurewal]

the short answer is "yes".

the long answer is "yes, IF...", where there are a few IF's. we of course can't guarantee any sort of score increase - after all, most of the hard work here is on your end. provided that you have the right PERSPECTIVE and that you are DILIGENT enough about completing "homework", you can achieve your stated goal.

by the way, it makes me all happy inside to see someone, anyone, with a stated goal other than "700+". there are way too many students out there who are striving for that particular number without any good reason.

--

first, you need to study in the proper MENTAL STATE.
here is one big aspect of that mental state:
learn to regard failures on practice problems as opportunities rather than as actual failures.
here's what i mean: every time you miss a practice problem, you're learning something: specifically, you're learning about some specific item that's missing from your foundation of knowledge. without making such mistakes, you won't know which subjects you should study and learn more about - so you should actually appreciate the mistakes you make!

it's not enough just to adopt the new attitude, though; you also have to dedicate yourself to deriving LESSONS from every single problem.
do not leave a problem until you have gotten some sort of TAKEAWAY from that problem - a takeaway that you can APPLY TO OTHER PROBLEMS.
such takeaways could take many forms. for instance, they could have to do with the particular strategy you should employ on a given type of problem. they could have to do with charts/tables/devices you could have used to organize your thoughts better. they could even be silly mistakes / traps that you should learn to watch out for. in any case, though, you should be able to derive some sort of takeaway from EVERY problem; that is in fact the only really good reason to do practice problems in the first place.

if you're having trouble deriving takeaways, try to fill in the following sentence for each problem:
"if i see ______ ON ANOTHER PROBLEM, i should ______"
you should do this both for problems you miss and for problems you get correct. remember that the end goal of studying is NOT to solve a bunch of problems correctly; it's to learn lessons that you can take into future problems. do not ever forget that, when you're studying, the actual problems in front of you don't matter; only their content matters.

and that leads into the next topic: most students don't study correctly.
here is what you should be doing:
when you study problems, don't concentrate on the individual problems. instead, focus on the COMMON THREADS and CONNECTIONS between the problems.
remember that you're never going to see the actual problems you're studying, ever again, but you will see problems that look a lot like them. so, more than emphasizing the particulars of the problem in front of you, you should be emphasizing considerations such as:
* what are the signals in this problem that tell me what problem type it is?
* what sort of strategies have worked on similar problems?
* what factors have caused me to miss similar problems in the past?

if you start studying problems in this way - with an eye to their connections to other problems, rather than considering them as individual disconnected problems - you'll find that your goals are easier to achieve.
there's a saying about improvisational acting that says, roughly, that good improv requires years of preparation. it's a funny and ironic comment, but it reveals a truth about improv: namely, the best improv isn't improvisational at all. instead, the actor has been in hundreds of similar situations before, and so has developed instincts that will guide him/her through the current situation smoothly.
your goal is to create a similar situation on the gmat: you should study enough connections and takeaways that you eventually get to the point at which most, if not all, of the problems look like things that you've already seen.
when you get to that point of "constant deja vu", you'll be ready to roll.

good luck![/quote]

[RonPurewal]

i also wanted to chime in re: this

In closing, was in the 69% percentile in verbal and the 44% in math on my most recent test.

strangely enough, those are actually similar performance levels.

our percentiles are meant to mimic the official percentiles (i.e., they are NOT percentiles among MGMAT students, which would have a vastly different distribution).
on the official test, there is a large contingent of south and east asian students who have excellent quant scores, but relatively poor verbal scores (because of language barriers). there is no corresponding large group of students who are exceptionally able at the verbal section but not at the quant.
the presence of these students' scores therefore depresses the quant percentiles: for instance, a quant 49, which is two points below the maximum of 51, is only 88th percentile. by contrast, their scores inflate the verbal percentiles: for instance, anything between 46-51 on the verbal is 99th percentile.
therefore, your verbal percentile and your math percentile actually reflect similar levels of performance, despite the seeming differences.

[juanranger]

Ron,

You are awesome. Thanks very much for your thorough response to my inquiry. I am going to do my very best to incorporate what you wrote to me in your two posts.

Best,

MG

[StaceyKoprince]

Good luck - let us know how it goes!

[juanranger]

Stacey and Ron,

Good morning. I hope this e-mail finds you well. I just wanted to give you an update in regards to my most recent test. I am proud to say that I ended up getting a 670 (42Q 40V) on the GMAT. From the beginning my goal was a 680+, and given my current restrictions of working a full-time job and running a small business on the side during the weekends, I could not be more proud of my score. Although I already posted this question on the consulting boards, I was wondering if the two of you could possibly take a look at my profile and let me know what you think:

Graduated from top liberal arts college in 2005
GMAT: 670 (42Q 40V)
GPA: 3.0
Work Experience: went into a management role straight out of college. Currently I work for a global financial services company.

Extra: I currently run a side business teaching basketball lessons (camps and clinics included), both for profit and for charity. I have been playing sports all of my life and was captain of my college basketball team my junior and senior seasons. I am an avid fisherman and I also play the guitar.

Given my profile, what type of schools do you think I should consider? Ideally, I would love to get into a top 20 school. However, I know that is somewhat of a stretch.

Thanks.

Gabe

[StaceyKoprince]

Congrats - nice job! I'm afraid I don't know much about the admissions side of things - certainly not enough to know which specific schools would react well to your particular profile.

In general, if I were you, I would consider:
(1) what particular industry / type of job I want to have after and which schools have good programs or good reputations in those industries / areas
(2) where I want to be located geographically for at least the first few years after b-school (many students stay in the same area for the first few years - this is your network, a key benefit to b-school, and the benefit would be somewhat wasted if you moved away immediately)
(3) what kinds of jobs the students tend to get after school, job placement rates, what employers think of graduates from that school

[juanranger]

Stacey,

Thank you very much for your reply. You truly are a great asset to us all.

As I mentioned in my previous e-mail, my most recent GMAT score was 670 (42Q 40V). My quantiative marks in college were not that great so I would really like to show the people who will ultimately see my application that I can handle to math in some of their advanced courses. Given that fact, I think it might be in my best interest to take one more shot at the GMAT. I have already sought out a personal tutor (from MGMAT) and I am currently waiting to hear back for my first consultation. I was wondering if you think it is possible for me to raise my quantitative scores significantly in the next few months (I scored in the 63rd percentile and ideally I would like to be 80+)? And if so, I would love to hear any pointers you might have.

Ultimately I am hoping to take the exam again in 2 months.

Thanks.

Gabe

[StaceyKoprince]

It's certainly possible, though obviously that's going to depend upon the quality of the work that you do. It's obviously different from person to person, but I think it's generally reasonable to look at 2-3 months for a 63rd to 80th improvement. Again - different people are different, so I can't say everyone should expect to achieve this. Discuss your goals with your tutor at the beginning and, after s/he has had a chance to see your thought processes and how you work, s/he can help to advise you better on this question.

Make sure you have taken a relatively recent MGMAT practice test (within 2-3 weeks) before you meet with your tutor for the first time, and make sure to tell him / her that the test is in there. The tutor will look through the test before you meet to figure out what your strengths and weaknesses are, etc. Also take the time to write up what you think your strengths and weaknesses are and send that info to your tutor. Also include goals and anything else you'd like the tutor to know.

Also make sure to ask your tutor for homework guidelines at the end of each session. Use the forums, OG explanations, and MGMAT explanations to learn what you can before you meet with the tutor, and save the things you still don't get for your tutoring sessions - just to make the most efficient use of your hard-earned money. :)

Finally, if you've worked hard on a challenging problem and think you finally get it, bring it in and explain it to your tutor to see if your thinking is right - test yourself like this on maybe one or two problems for a 2-hour session.