For the best extraction of the flavor of

[RonPurewal]

SO, why B is wrong?

read the second post of this thread.

[zhongshanlh]

Ron and Manhattan experts,

i am still a little confused about the use of "after doing" here.

i know that after is a preposition and should(or must) be follwed by a noun(gerund).

then in option A:
For the best extraction of the flavor of saffron threads, it should be soaked in liquid after being pounded

1.regardless of other incorrect points of the sentence, if we eliminate the "being" and change the "pounded" into "pounding", is that right for this issue about the use of after?

2.however , IMO, i think even if we made the mentioned changes above, the use of after here is still incorrect,because we know that the subject of the sentence is "saffron threads"(let us just ignore the wrong use of "it" and focus on the issue of after...),so "after pounding" would actually means that the "saffron threads" themselves make the action"pounding".

so, after considering all the things above, i think i may conclude that when we use the construction AFTER DOING, we should always look out for whether the subject of the preceding clause is the one who really make the action DOING

3. come back to option A, however, in this kind of situation in which the subject of the preceding clause is not the subject but the object of the action DOING, i think that if we want to use the constructing AFTER DOING, we should place BEING between AFTER and DOING. am i thinking correctly?

please clarify me and thank you so much.

[tim]

1/2. no, we cannot just make this change independently of the other errors in A. they are all woven together in such a way that a correction would require multiple changes..

3. this does not make any sense to me. what i can tell you is that you would never use "after being pounding" in a sentence..

[bruno.shinjo]

Hi MGMAT experts!

Answer (B) To best extract their flavor, saffron threads should be soaked in liquid after pounding

Aside from the logical prediction problem in answer (B), I would like to know if starting a sentence with an infinitive ("To (...) extract") is considered a poor construction? Or, if a sentence that starts with ("In order to (...) extract") would be a better construction to start?

Thanks,

[RonPurewal]

Hi MGMAT experts!

Answer (B) To best extract their flavor, saffron threads should be soaked in liquid after pounding

Aside from the logical prediction problem in answer (B), I would like to know if starting a sentence with an infinitive ("To (...) extract") is considered a poor construction? Or, if a sentence that starts with ("In order to (...) extract") would be a better construction to start?

Thanks,

The problem with that construction is that it's nonsense -- it implies that saffron threads can extract their own flavor. (This may be what you mean by "logical prediction problem"; I can't tell.)

There's nothing wrong with this kind of modifier.
E.g., To compensate for increased shipping costs, XYZCo will increase prices by 10%.
"In order to ___" is normally used only where "to ___" would make the sentence ambiguous or otherwise difficult to read.

[gauravtyagigmat]

B: The principal error here is the misplaced modifier: 'to best extract their flavor' mistakenly refers to saffron threads, leading to the absurd conclusion that they are extracting their own flavor.

Hi Ron,
We have seen many sentences in gmat where pronoun comes before its noun ,and gmat considers this type of usage correct

But here in option B how using "their" before its noun that is "safforn threads" is resulting in a absurd meaning that safform threads are extracting their own flavor.

Please explain when it is correct to use pronoun before its noun and when it is incorrect to use pronoun before its noun

Thanks

[RonPurewal]

Not a pronoun issue.
In that choice, the issue is that the initial modifier (To do xxxx, ...) describes whatever comes after it.

It's like this sentence...
Coming home from school, the wind blew me off my bike
... which implies, absurdly enough, that the wind had to "come home from school".

[thanghnvn]

[quote="Guest79"]For the best extraction of the flavor of saffron threads, it should be soaked in liquid after being pounded with a mortar and pestle.

A) Same
B) To best extract their flavor, saffron threads should be soaked in liquid after pounding
C) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is soaking them in liquid after being pounded
D) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is to soak them in liquid after pounding them
E) The flavor of saffron threads can best be extracted by soaking it in liquid after pounding it.

I want to summarize:

in b and c, the object of "pounding" and subject of "being pounded " is not clear, according to the sentence structure of b and c. This unclearness is unacceptable/meaningless.

in contrast, "to pound them" and "pounding them" in d is acceptable because we do not need to show the agent of pounding.

this question gives us the lession that sometimes object of a verb/verbal needs to be showned and sometimes agent of doing is not needed to be showned.

[RonPurewal]

You're thinking along the right lines here, but not entirely correctly.

C) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is soaking them in liquid after being pounded

Here, "soaking" and "being pounded" are parallel -- suggesting that they have the same subject, or, more accurately, the same agent (= person/thing that does the action). It's not technically accurate to say "subject", because __ing forms are not verbs.
The problem is that they don't have the same agent. "Soaking" refers to the person working with the saffron, whereas "being pounded" refers to the saffron itself.

So, incorrect, unless the agents themselves are differentiated (i.e., by explicit mention of at least one of them).


B has the same problem:

B) To best extract their flavor, saffron threads should be soaked in liquid after pounding

The issue is exactly the same, but in the opposite order this time. ("should be soaked" refers to the saffron itself, while "pounding" is done by people.)

[thanghnvn]

[quote="Guest79"]For the best extraction of the flavor of saffron threads, it should be soaked in liquid after being pounded with a mortar and pestle.

A) Same
B) To best extract their flavor, saffron threads should be soaked in liquid after pounding
C) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is soaking them in liquid after being pounded
D) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is to soak them in liquid after pounding them
E) The flavor of saffron threads can best be extracted by soaking it in liquid after pounding it.

, I have to turn back to this problem. Ron, pls,help us with this question. no grammar book on earth teach us this problem.

why B is wrong?

"to best extract..." in B dose not need to refer to threads grammatically. the following sentence, from gmatprep, proves my point

Archaeologists in Ireland believe that a recently discovered chalice, which dates from the eighth century, was probably buried //to keep from //being stolen by invaders.

(A) to keep from
(B) to keep it from
(C) to avoid
(D) in order that it would avoid
(E) in order to keep from

OA B

so, the error in B lies in " be soaked" and "after pounding".
Pls help.

[thanghnvn]

For the best extraction of the flavor of saffron threads, it should be soaked in liquid after being pounded with a mortar and pestle.

A) Same
B) To best extract their flavor, saffron threads should be soaked in liquid after pounding
C) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is soaking them in liquid after being pounded
D) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is to soak them in liquid after pounding them
E) The flavor of saffron threads can best be extracted by soaking it in liquid after pounding it.

C is wrong because

gerund doing refers to no noun in the sentence while participle doing refers to a specific noun in the sentence. this differenciation helps us solve many sc problems.

"being pounded" in C can not be participle because there is no noun for it. if it is gerund, its "covered subject" is different from "covered subject " of "soaking" . this is wrong. this is the lession we learn from this problem.

but why B is wrong. I realy do not fully understand, Ron, pls help us.

the "covered" subjects of "pounding" and "to extract" are the same and I see there is no problem with "be soaked"

why B is wrong?

[thanghnvn]

IF we use "covered" subject, we have to use it for all the verb and do not use the passive any more. in so doing, we see that the sentence is smooth. this is the meaning point of parallelism for the sentence.

B uses passive and covered subjects at the same time and is wrong.

am I correct?

[RonPurewal]

why B is wrong?

This question is answered in the post directly above yours.

[thanghnvn]

[quote="Guest79"]For the best extraction of the flavor of saffron threads, it should be soaked in liquid after being pounded with a mortar and pestle.

A) Same
B) To best extract their flavor, saffron threads should be soaked in liquid after pounding
C) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is soaking them in liquid after being pounded
D) The best way to extract the flavor from saffron threads is to soak them in liquid after pounding them
E) The flavor of saffron threads can best be extracted by soaking it in liquid after pounding it.

D is the correct answer.

In D, the OA, "pounding" can not be a gerund because it take "them" as direct object. if it is gerund, it should be "pounding of them".

in C, "pounding" also can not be a participle because if it is participle, the meaning is "the best way" do "pounding" illogicaly.

so, what we learn from this OA? pls help

[RonPurewal]

"___ing + object" can absolutely act as a noun.
Taking the GMAT is stressful.
Joe enjoys sewing clothes.
This is an extremely common construction.

I don't know the terms you're using, but you appear to be having trouble because you're too focused on those terms.